Figures on non-EU workers in Ireland?

Augmerson · 17-06-2013 10:35am #1

Myself and a friend in the pub last night got into a discussion about non-EU people living and working in Ireland. He came across with a story that Ireland has to allow a certain amount of non-EU people into the country every year. I know that, since Ireland is in the European Union, anyone from a member state can move to another member state and live there. What I don't know is that Ireland had to allow anybody else the right to come here to work, and here is where we got bogged down into an argument.

He said that we allow thousands of Brazilian and Chinese people into Ireland every year on 'student visa's' but that these students (learning the English language here presumably) can also work for 2 years in Ireland. I have noticed for example in recent years a lot of Brazilian people living here, especially in Dublin, but sure if they'd want to come to this rain-soaked place, fair play. J's argument though was that really we are just letting these people in as temporary workers and that we shouldn't allow them to work, especially as Irish people are leaving Ireland in record numbers to seek employment elsewhere.

So, AH, is my friend right? Does Ireland permit student visa's that you can then use to work here? And does anyone have any idea how many of these we give out every year? My friend thinks we give these out for free but I did a Under-35 work visa in Canada a few years ago and there were a few costs associated with it so I said it's not free. Is it free?

And ultimately, do you think we should allow non-EU workers into Ireland when many people are being forced to emigrate?

biko · 17-06-2013 10:37am

http://www.icosirl.ie/eng/student_information/working_in_ireland

Can I work while studying in Ireland?
Students from the EEA - All nationals from the European Economic Area (EEA) are free to take up employment in Ireland while studying.

Students from outside the EEA - At present, students attending a full time course of at least one year's duration leading to a qualification recognised by the Minister for Education and Science are entitled to take up casual employment (defined as up to 20 hours part time work per week or full time work during normal college vacation periods). The course of study must be listed on the internationalisation register of recognised courses maintained on behalf of the Department of Education. Access to employment is denied to all other students.

Gummy Panda · 17-06-2013 10:40am

Why do some Brazilian women sound like men?

They are not men and don't seem to have taken androgens but they sound like they do.

Augmerson · 17-06-2013 10:43am

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Why do some Brazilian women sound like men?

They are not men and don't seem to have taken androgens but they sound like they do.

I have no idea what you are talking aboot.

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 10:48am

Augmerson wrote: »

Myself and a friend in the pub last night got into a discussion about non-EU people living and working in Ireland. He came across with a story that Ireland has to allow a certain amount of non-EU people into the country every year. I know that, since Ireland is in the European Union, anyone from a member state can move to another member state and live there. What I don't know is that Ireland had to allow anybody else the right to come here to work, and here is where we got bogged down into an argument.

He said that we allow thousands of Brazilian and Chinese people into Ireland every year on 'student visa's' but that these students (learning the English language here presumably) can also work for 2 years in Ireland. I have noticed for example in recent years a lot of Brazilian people living here, especially in Dublin, but sure if they'd want to come to this rain-soaked place, fair play. J's argument though was that really we are just letting these people in as temporary workers and that we shouldn't allow them to work, especially as Irish people are leaving Ireland in record numbers to seek employment elsewhere.

So, AH, is my friend right? Does Ireland permit student visa's that you can then use to work here? And does anyone have any idea how many of these we give out every year? My friend thinks we give these out for free but I did a Under-35 work visa in Canada a few years ago and there were a few costs associated with it so I said it's not free. Is it free?

And ultimately, do you think we should allow non-EU workers into Ireland when many people are being forced to emigrate?

Rubbish. My partner is Brazilian. Do you know how long we have been waiting for her visa application to be processed? She will not be allowed to work properly until that is granted, but when she does, she will bring as much to the table as any Irish person. Between college fees, health insurance, general living she has put far more into our economy than she has taken out of it. She is entitled to nothing, but she is happy with that.

And on a personal note, I like having the Brazilians around - far more sunny disposition than the moaning, whingeing Irish, always complaining about the weather and foreigners, and people stealing the jobs that nobody wanted before 2008...

Fratton Fred · 17-06-2013 10:52am

We have to let non eu nationals in to the country, we are then obliged to give them a free house, car with taxi plate and free pushchairs so they can abandon them at bus stops.

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 10:54am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

We have to let non eu nationals in to the country, we are then obliged to give them a free house, car with taxi plate and free pushchairs so they can abandon them at bus stops.

Generalise much? Must go home and ask my girlfriend where she is hiding the free stuff.

Barracuda1 · 17-06-2013 10:56am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Rubbish. My partner is Brazilian. Do you know how long we have been waiting for her visa application to be processed? She will not be allowed to work properly until that is granted, but when she does, she will bring as much to the table as any Irish person. Between college fees, health insurance, general living she has put far more into our economy than she has taken out of it. She is entitled to nothing, but she is happy with that.

And on a personal note, I like having the Brazilians around - far more sunny disposition than the moaning, whingeing Irish, always complaining about the weather and foreigners, and people stealing the jobs that nobody wanted before 2008...

Fair play couldn't agree with you more. I've noticed alot of eastern europeans in my neck of the woods and they are okay

mcwinning · 17-06-2013 11:02am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Rubbish. My partner is Brazilian. Do you know how long we have been waiting for her visa application to be processed? She will not be allowed to work properly until that is granted, but when she does, she will bring as much to the table as any Irish person. Between college fees, health insurance, general living she has put far more into our economy than she has taken out of it. She is entitled to nothing, but she is happy with that.

And on a personal note, I like having the Brazilians around - far more sunny disposition than the moaning, whingeing Irish, always complaining about the weather and foreigners, and people stealing the jobs that nobody wanted before 2008...

You are totally right about Brazilians, they are a breath of fresh air to be around. I worked with quite a few and it seems to be a rule that they are warm, kind and have a great attitude to life.

Cody Pomeray · 17-06-2013 11:08am

Augmerson wrote: »

Myself and a friend in the pub last night got into a discussion about non-EU people living and working in Ireland. He came across with a story that Ireland has to allow a certain amount of non-EU people into the country every year.

That's not true. We are under no obligation to meet an immigration quota, the fact is that we permit - and even seek - immigrants for our own economic and societal interests.

He said that we allow thousands of Brazilian and Chinese people into Ireland every year on 'student visa's' but that these students (learning the English language here presumably) can also work for 2 years in Ireland.

No they can't. They can work for 3 months during their holiday period from education. During the educational term, they can only work part time. There is no 2 year rule.

My friend thinks we give these out for free

They're not free. They costa few hundred quid. And the student has to have €7000 cash in a bank account in their name to meet the costs of living here. GNIB are strict on this.

And ultimately, do you think we should allow non-EU workers into Ireland when many people are being forced to emigrate?

Yes we don't have all the skills we need, like IT, or else we can't afford to employ those Irish employees with the skills we need in the State sector, especially in the areas of medicine, nursing, and auxiliary services.

Gummy Panda · 17-06-2013 11:11am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Generalise much? Must go home and ask my girlfriend where she is hiding the free stuff.

He is taking the pìss. The old myth story on AH was Nigerian woman who couldn't get her pram on the bus. She left it at the bus stop because the welfare would give her a new one on Monday.

wolfpawnat · 17-06-2013 11:25am

Gummy Panda wrote: »

He is taking the pìss. The old myth story on AH was Nigerian woman who couldn't get her pram on the bus. She left it at the bus stop because the welfare would give her a new one on Monday.

The welfare do not just give you a new one, you have to apply for a refund for having bought one yourself and provide receipts and paperwork for the purchase, they will give you a percentage back and it must be under a certain cost. Maybe back in the boom we were going mad with this, but these days there are strict rules that dictate how much people get. I have had to queue once or twice to see my CWO and I have seen others with their paperwork and receipts ready so they could get assistance for buggies or pushchairs, none of which I would ever have called "top of the range" either.

drdeadlift · 17-06-2013 11:32am

mcwinning wrote: »

You are totally right about Brazilians, they are a breath of fresh air to be around. I worked with quite a few and it seems to be a rule that they are warm, kind and have a great attitude to life.

They are all just a lovely bunch

Augmerson · 17-06-2013 11:36am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Rubbish. My partner is Brazilian. Do you know how long we have been waiting for her visa application to be processed? She will not be allowed to work properly until that is granted, but when she does, she will bring as much to the table as any Irish person. Between college fees, health insurance, general living she has put far more into our economy than she has taken out of it. She is entitled to nothing, but she is happy with that.

And on a personal note, I like having the Brazilians around - far more sunny disposition than the moaning, whingeing Irish, always complaining about the weather and foreigners, and people stealing the jobs that nobody wanted before 2008...

In fairness if you read my post you'd see I have nothing against Brazilian people. Brazilian people were just used as an example. If the economy allowed it, I wish we could open the country up to far more people from the rest of the world because I think Ireland has been too insular for far too long but its a bit much to suggest we (Irish) are all moaning, whinging and complaining. Over generalise much? Yes. I guess you just took it very personally because your moh is a Brazilian.

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 11:40am

Augmerson wrote: »

In fairness if you read my post you'd see I have nothing against Brazilian people. Brazilian people were just used as an example. If the economy allowed it, I wish we could open the country up to far more people from the rest of the world because I think Ireland has been too insular for far too long but its a bit much to suggest we (Irish) are all moaning, whinging and complaining. Over generalise much? Yes. I guess you just took it very personally because your moh is a Brazilian.

Of course I took it personally, it was personal to me because my girlfriend is Brazilian. I'm Irish and have been living here for 29 years and I can honestly say in my opinion (whether you think it too much or otherwise) we spend anawful lot of time complaining about things.

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 11:41am

drdeadlift wrote: »

They are all just a lovely bunch

Fierce temper though :eek:

17-06-2013 11:42am

wolfpawnat wrote: »

The welfare do not just give you a new one, you have to apply for a refund for having bought one yourself and provide receipts and paperwork for the purchase, they will give you a percentage back and it must be under a certain cost. Maybe back in the boom we were going mad with this, but these days there are strict rules that dictate how much people get. I have had to queue once or twice to see my CWO and I have seen others with their paperwork and receipts ready so they could get assistance for buggies or pushchairs, none of which I would ever have called "top of the range" either.

That's why he said it was a myth

17-06-2013 11:45am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Of course I took it personally, it was personal to me because my girlfriend is Brazilian. I'm Irish and have been living here for 29 years and I can honestly say in my opinion (whether you think it too much or otherwise) we spend anawful lot of time complaining about things.

In my opinion some of us appear to be absolutely dying for a chance to be offended.

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 11:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

In my opinion some of us appear to be absolutely dying for a chance to be offended.

You ought to work on that, wont get you anywhere

Gatling · 17-06-2013 11:50am

I believe last year the meat production sector brought in 3000 Brazilian on visas to work here as they couldn't find Irish people to work in processing plants here ,

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 11:53am

Gatling wrote: »

I believe last year the meat production sector brought in 3000 Brazilian on visas to work here as they couldn't find Irish people to work in processing plants here ,

Yup, in Gort I think, though I am not sure about the numbers.

mariaalice · 17-06-2013 11:54am

Fratton Fred wrote: »

We have to let non eu nationals in to the country, we are then obliged to give them a free house, car with taxi plate and free pushchairs so they can abandon them at bus stops.

You forgot about them eating swans as well:D

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 11:59am

wolfpawnat wrote: »

The welfare do not just give you a new one, you have to apply for a refund for having bought one yourself and provide receipts and paperwork for the purchase, they will give you a percentage back and it must be under a certain cost. Maybe back in the boom we were going mad with this, but these days there are strict rules that dictate how much people get. I have had to queue once or twice to see my CWO and I have seen others with their paperwork and receipts ready so they could get assistance for buggies or pushchairs, none of which I would ever have called "top of the range" either.

a whole "one or twice" huh - what has the country come to that people have to queue up for free stuff for their kids

kunst nugget · 17-06-2013 12:01pm

mariaalice wrote: »

You forgot about them eating swans as well:D

It makes me sick dat sum of me dole money is goin toeards dose forinners becoz day r all saviges!

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 12:03pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

It makes me sick dat sum of me dole money is goin toeards dose forinners becoz day r all saviges!

cumin in 'ere takin' our bleedin jobs

(the ones we wouldnt do anyway) :rolleyes:

wolfpawnat · 17-06-2013 12:03pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

a whole "one or twice" huh - what has the country come to that people have to queue up for free stuff for their kids

I have never went to the SW for "free stuff" for my kids. I depended on family (loaning me the few hundred for a cotbed and me paying them back) and myself to pay for my kids things. But I have went to the CWO for other matters and there are many people struggling, many with part-time or low income jobs that require their assistance too so don't just assume

. Children need the basics, I am not saying give them all free top of the range stuff, just assist those who need help and make sure they don't take the mick!

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 12:07pm

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I have never went to the SW for "free stuff" for my kids. I depended on family (loaning me the few hundred for a cotbed and me paying them back) and myself to pay for my kids things. But I have went to the CWO for other matters and there are many people struggling, many with part-time or low income jobs that require their assistance too so don't just assume . Children need the basics, I am not saying give them all free top of the range stuff, just assist those who need help and make sure they don't take the mick!

When i was a kid - 4 of us slept in the one bed and most likely my parents could have go to some welfare place but had too much pride. Kids can sleep on the floor ok - or perhaps they could sleep in their free prams

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 12:08pm

Gatling wrote: »

I believe last year the meat production sector brought in 3000 Brazilian on visas to work here as they couldn't find Irish people to work in processing plants here ,

last year?

kunst nugget · 17-06-2013 12:09pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

a whole "one or twice" huh - what has the country come to that people have to queue up for free stuff for their kids

Yes because people have never struggled in this country and have had to get help before. Ever. It's only since the recession and people's sense of entitlement that has people doing this. Country is going to dogs so it is.

wolfpawnat · 17-06-2013 12:11pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

When i was a kid - 4 of us slept in the one bed and most likely my parents could have go to some welfare place but had too much pride. Kids can sleep on the floor ok - or perhaps they could sleep in their free prams

And they can eat the leftovers from the tables of the rich if they feel charittable and be educated with no shoes on because sure back in the middle ages you seldom had feet never mind shoes to put on them!

Welcome the the 21st Century, a time where basic human rights are available to most and a bed to sleep on at night is plentiful!

wolfpawnat · 17-06-2013 12:13pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

Yes because people have never struggled in this country and have had to get help before. Ever. It's only since the recession and people's sense of entitlement that has people doing this. Country is going to dogs so it is.

The audacity of them!!!!!!! And I bet they never worked a day in their life, straight onto the single mothers at 13 sure!!!!

Leftist · 17-06-2013 12:13pm

another day another foreign bashing on boards.ie

We are a complete laughing stock with our head of state cornered and abused by lunatics in longford, preaching religious doctrine in 2013 en masse, a church trying to dictate policy for all citizens regardless of religion and it's horde of followers following suit.
A party who are clearly responsible for the crash and mishandling of our economy, faced the worst results of their reign only a few years ago in a general election, are now sustaining their position as the most popular in public polls.

But lets not worry about dem tings. sure wouldn't it be grand if it wasn't for dose foreigners.

Augmerson · 17-06-2013 12:15pm

Leftist wrote: »

another day another foreign bashing on boards.ie

We are a complete laughing stock with our head of state cornered and abused by lunatics in longford, preaching religious doctrine in 2013 en masse, a church trying to dictate policy for all citizens regardless of religion and it's horde of followers following suit.
A party who are clearly responsible for the crash and mishandling of our economy, faced the worst results of their reign only a few years ago in a general election, are now sustaining their position as the most popular in public polls.

But lets not worry about dem tings. sure wouldn't it be grand if it wasn't for dose foreigners.

Where is the foreigner bashing?

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 12:19pm

Augmerson wrote: »

Where is the foreigner bashing?

so we can join in

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 12:21pm

wolfpawnat wrote: »

And they can eat the leftovers from the tables of the rich if they feel charittable and be educated with no shoes on because sure back in the middle ages you seldom had feet never mind shoes to put on them! Welcome the the 21st Century, a time where basic human rights are available to most and a bed to sleep on at night is plentiful!

what would make one require a new bed? beds last forever and St Vincent de Paul have lots of free/nearly free beds/sofas/cloths

kunst nugget · 17-06-2013 12:26pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

what would make one require a new bed? beds last forever and St Vincent de Paul have lots of free/nearly free beds/sofas/cloths

Aye, I got a free bed from SVP. Once I got rid of the stain on it from where the old woman defecated herself when she died it was good to go. People are too soft these days.

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 12:28pm

suppose you should have chosen a less stained bed - cleaning products are not that expensive too and svp steam clean everything from there with insecticide. Cut the poo section out and turn the mattress over - few blankets over it and you'll never know.

Dyr · 17-06-2013 12:33pm

Ah come on lads, where would the black economy be without those non-eu students working for exactly the minimum wage (and not a penny less of course), 20 hours (and not a minute more?) a week? All totally above board.

Say nothing, wink and a nod, the system works lads.

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 12:38pm

Bambi wrote: »

Ah come on lads, where would the black economy be without those non-eu students working for exactly the minimum wage (and not a penny less of course), 20 hours (and not a minute more?) a week? All totally above board.

Say nothing, wink and a nod, the system works lads.

there is one asian bloke near me and he does that a day

Dyr · 17-06-2013 1:24pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

there is one asian bloke near me and he does that a day

Not at all, you must be imagining it, there's no way irish employers and non eu students are ignoring the law on a massive scale.

jaffacakesyum · 17-06-2013 1:29pm

I have the governments immigration laws to thank for all the sexy South American women in Dublin at the moment. Seriously, who would complain about that :pac:

donutheadhomer · 17-06-2013 2:31pm

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I have the governments immigration laws to thank for all the sexy South American women in Dublin at the moment. Seriously, who would complain about that :pac:

yeah but there are plenty that look/sound like men too that should be removed/excluded.

RDM_83 again · 17-06-2013 3:02pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Fierce temper though :eek:

Is that true for most of them? Because doing a classic judging of one entire nation of the Brazilians, on the ones I met at a couple of parties in Galway a few years ago, the guys at least seemed to have a rather violent scumbaggy attitude.

OldNotWIse · 17-06-2013 3:07pm

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Is that true for most of them? Because doing a classic judging of one entire nation of the Brazilians, on the ones I met at a couple of parties in Galway a few years ago, the guys at least seemed to have a rather violent scumbaggy attitude.

Nope just "mine" lol (in a non-posessory sense). I cant speak for almost 200 million people (much as I'd like to

).

jaffacakesyum · 17-06-2013 4:11pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

yeah but there are plenty that look/sound like men too that should be removed/excluded.

That's the second comment I've read about that or was the first from you as well?

I've never met a South American woman that looks/sounds like a man....and all the South American women I'm talking about are gay/bi. Strange!

South American men are gorgeous too but, again, the only ones I know are gay :pac:

Gatling · 18-06-2013 12:02am

EurasianBadger wrote: »

last year?

Yes the in the last year alone fair play to them aswell 3000 Irish people obviously didn't want to work in the sector

hfallada · 18-06-2013 12:14am

There is a large amount of Americans in Ireland ( I know a load of people who are 100% Irish but American born). People have no problem with them or the chinese who have a unemployment rate of 6% in Ireland. But Nigerians with a unemployment rate of 31% is asking for serious problems in the future. Like France, Holland etc, are having with uneducated non nationals.

Most non-nationals are hard working and I think its fantastic that they provide skills Irish people dont have. But dont come expecting everything and give nothing in return

MadsL · 18-06-2013 12:30am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

And on a personal note, I like having the Brazilians around - far more sunny disposition than the moaning, whingeing Irish, always complaining about the weather and foreigners, and people stealing the jobs that nobody wanted before 2008...

As an aside, and general anecdote, I was working the Electric Picnic in 2010. A storm went over on the Sunday just as Massive Attack closed the festival. I stayed to hear them, but was soaked to the skin, and staff camping was right the other side of the perimeter road, bloody long walk. A guy dropping off at the back of the vendors area offered me a lift down but said he had to drop off lunches for the litter pickers.

We swung by one of the big tops and approx 150 workers were laughing, singing and smiling despite being soaked and dressed for the most part in bin-bags. They were about to go out and finish working through the night in a field in horizonal driving rain picking up sh1te.

I asked the guy who these amazing people were.

"Brazilians" says he "aren't they great!" with a big grin.

And OP ...here ya go.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/popmig_2012.pdf

donutheadhomer · 18-06-2013 12:12pm

MadsL wrote: »

As an aside, and general anecdote, I was working the Electric Picnic in 2010. A storm went over on the Sunday just as Massive Attack closed the festival. I stayed to hear them, but was soaked to the skin, and staff camping was right the other side of the perimeter road, bloody long walk. A guy dropping off at the back of the vendors area offered me a lift down but said he had to drop off lunches for the litter pickers.

We swung by one of the big tops and approx 150 workers were laughing, singing and smiling despite being soaked and dressed for the most part in bin-bags. They were about to go out and finish working through the night in a field in horizonal driving rain picking up sh1te.

I asked the guy who these amazing people were.

"Brazilians" says he "aren't they great!" with a big grin.

And OP ...here ya go.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/latestheadlinefigures/popmig_2012.pdf

yeah singing in the rain is one of the questions the Foreign Affairs Dept ask on the visa forms allright.

OldNotWIse · 18-06-2013 12:14pm

EurasianBadger wrote: »

yeah singing in the rain is one of the questions the Foreign Affairs Dept ask on the visa forms allright.

Wouldnt surprise me, you should see the amount of personal information we had to give to prove the validity of our relationship for de facto app...and they still come back for more, or lose stuff and ask you for it again.

donutheadhomer · 18-06-2013 12:15pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Wouldnt surprise me, you should see the amount of peronsal information we had to give to prove the validity of our relationship for de facto app...and they still come back for more, or lose stuff and ask you for it again.

terrible

Figures on non-EU workers in Ireland?

Comments