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Bus Eireann strike - services have resumed (Read first post)

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    #662
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    It was part of it, you said it yourself. They made a mistake of going on strike in the first place.

    It was part of a labour court recommendation that was rejected, but you are wrong to suggest that the meal allowance of 7 euro that only applies to a very limited number of drivers was the reason there was a strike. It sounds good when you are trying to ridicule people but you know it is not true.


    I said there should not have been a strike, the first place should have been the courts to injunct the company for breaching their contracts. But I firmly believe this whole thing has been an orchestrated farce between the unions and the management and Leo. It was just about positioning people to get them to agree to something.


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    #663
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭daheff


    bk wrote: »
    It isn't that they can make 200k a day, it is that even with a strike going, they still have many costs that have to be paid, while no revenue is coming in.

    For instance electricity and security staff for all bus stations and depots. Insurance, management salaries (they aren't on strike), advertising, contract cleaners, etc.

    But they would have those outgoings with or without a strike. The strike hasnt cost them 400k over 2 days on overheads. I'd guess its 400k net income (After drivers exp and fuel).


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    #664
    Kumsheen
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kumsheen


    Some details emerging
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/bus-%C3%A9ireann-chief-s-pay-to-fall-by-5-000-under-deal-with-unions-1.1395878

    "The pay of the chief executive of Bus Éireann Martin Nolan is to fall from €189,000 to €184,000

    Overall, executives at the State-owned transport company will have to contribute around €1 million in pay and non-pay savings

    Fees paid to directors at the State-owned transport company are also to be cut by 20 per cent

    For drivers the new agreement on overtime rates and premium payments will be the same as those set out in the Labour Court recommendation which was rejected by staff"


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    #665
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Kumsheen wrote: »
    Some details emerging
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/bus-%C3%A9ireann-chief-s-pay-to-fall-by-5-000-under-deal-with-unions-1.1395878

    "The pay of the chief executive of Bus Éireann Martin Nolan is to fall from €189,000 to €184,000

    Overall, executives at the State-owned transport company will have to contribute around €1 million in pay and non-pay savings

    Fees paid to directors at the State-owned transport company are also to be cut by 20 per cent

    For drivers the new agreement on overtime rates and premium payments will be the same as those set out in the Labour Court recommendation which was rejected by staff"

    So BE were looking to save about 4% of their wages bill and Martin Nolan is giving up 2.6% of his massive salary. Wow really leading by example there.

    300,000 in wage cuts from executives and 700,000 in productivity, what a pile of ****. Executives will work 3 hours longer a week and this is a saving ? How will Martin Nolan sitting behind his desk for an extra 35 minutes a day generate a saving ? Do they have to pay a replacement CEO overtime when he goes home early normally ?


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    #666
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Victor wrote: »
    Analysis of the PSO indicated it was too high, so it was cut.
    cdebru wrote: »
    Analysis by who ?
    From here: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1358351390-Annual-Report-2011.pdf Page 38 note 18. Net Surplus/(deficit) by activity

    Deficit before PSO payment €42,948,000
    PSO payment €43,403,000
    Overpayment €3,522,000


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    #667
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    cdebru wrote: »
    They did that in 2010, 250 staff went mostly drivers.

    Was there a strike then?


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    #668
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Was there a strike then?

    No there wasn't.


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    #669
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    cdebru wrote: »
    No there wasn't.

    So you will strike over the loss of a few quid but not when a few of your fellow workers get let go? It says a lot really.


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    #670
    gbob
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭gbob


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So you will strike over the loss of a few quid but not when a few of your fellow workers get let go? It says a lot really.

    It was voluntary severance, nobody was forced out.

    It worked then it could work again.


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    #671
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So you will strike over the loss of a few quid but not when a few of your fellow workers get let go? It says a lot really.


    I don't work for BE and the redundancies were voluntary.


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    #672
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    end of the road wrote: »
    ...

    really? is it? so making thick comments is backbone?

    what backbone have they showed? saying they would rather a strike situation rather then a deal that won't make savings? a thick stupid comment from somebody who should know better.

    ...
    No need for comments like this.

    Moderator


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    #673
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Victor wrote: »
    From here: http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1358351390-Annual-Report-2011.pdf Page 38 note 18. Net Surplus/(deficit) by activity

    Deficit before PSO payment €42,948,000
    PSO payment €43,403,000
    Overpayment €3,522,000

    Nonsense you know that is not why it was cut, and you are also fully aware that the subvention in Ireland is one of lowest in Europe



    If you seen the note on the report it clearly states that the overpayment should be viewed in the context of the underpayment in previous years (ie 2008 over 6 million deficit and 2009 nearly 8 million deficit.)


    http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2012-12-07a.5

    The subvention was cut not based on any analysis but just as part of the general cuts the government are making, hence the Minister for Transport is able to announce his plans for future cuts in the subvention ( or are they based on analysis he will do in the future?)


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    #674
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Did I correctly on the radio this morning that the CIE companies are going to apply for ANOTHER fare increase by July??!

    That's Irish logic that is.. rather than cutting the inefficiencies and laying off staff, let's ask a dwindling user base to stump up the cash instead.

    Just another argument for the car really, especially if it comes soon after this latest disruption.


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    #675
    Vahevala
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Vahevala


    It is always the passengers that suffers, it is the only way CIE know. losing money = put the fare up. At the rate they are going, they will have no passengers left :rolleyes:


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    #676
    kingshankly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So you will strike over the loss of a few quid but not when a few of your fellow workers get let go? It says a lot really.

    You should really do you homework before you post


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    #677
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,847 ✭✭✭daheff


    Vahevala wrote: »
    It is always the passengers that suffers, it is the only way CIE know. losing money = put the fare up. At the rate they are going, they will have no passengers left :rolleyes:


    i've just renewed my annual train/bus ticket (because i need both to get to work -train only goes to heuston i go to city centre :( ). 1400 euros. Last year it was 1250.

    if they increase it again then its CHEAPER to travel by car and more convenient.

    so tell me again why we have public transport??


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    #678
    EricPraline
    Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭EricPraline


    So more fare increases on the way. More short term can kicking. As usual, in the battle between management and staff/unions, the customer suffers.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/passengers-face-further-fare-hikes-in-bid-to-save-cie-firms-29274118.html

    So once again, fare increase -> falling passenger numbers -> further losses -> repeat.


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    #679
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    EricPraline wrote: »
    So more fare increases on the way. More short term can kicking. As usual, in the battle between management and staff/unions, the customer suffers.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/passengers-face-further-fare-hikes-in-bid-to-save-cie-firms-29274118.html

    So once again, fare increase -> falling passenger numbers -> further losses -> repeat.

    And with the lack of competition...


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    #680
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Is it just me, or did the unions agree to pretty much the same "no way" cuts as before, with some token farthings taken from the top brass?


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    #681
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Is it just me, or did the unions agree to pretty much the same "no way" cuts as before, with some token farthings taken from the top brass?

    It is not just you, the unions allowed the CEO to take a 2.6% pay cut and pass off him agreeing to work an extra 3 hours a week as a saving.
    Only managers earning over 100,000 take any cut so a manager on 99,000 will be unaffected while an employee on 33k will have their take home pay cut.

    And the unions have never even raised the free travel scheme that is killing the entire group.


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    #682
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    cdebru wrote: »
    Only managers earning over 100,000 take any cut so a manager on 99,000 will be unaffected while an employee on 33k will have their take home pay cut.
    Meanwhile those in the executive branch near the bottom of the pay scale (which is below 40k) are taking a pay cut and having to work the extra hours. Some of the driver's savings are at the expense of those earning earning less than the average driver.


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    #683
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cdebru wrote: »
    It is not just you, the unions allowed the CEO to take a 2.6% pay cut and pass off him agreeing to work an extra 3 hours a week as a saving.
    Only managers earning over 100,000 take any cut so a manager on 99,000 will be unaffected while an employee on 33k will have their take home pay cut.

    And the unions have never even raised the free travel scheme that is killing the entire group.

    For goodness sakes no company CEO works any form of standard hours, nor do their key managers.

    CEOs are pretty much on call 24/7 and if you're seriously suggesting he and his CFO and other senior managers look at the clock having done their contracted number of hours and say "ok time to go home" you really are living on another planet.

    It doesn't work like that - you go home when the job is done. You don't get paid overtime - the higher salaries reflect the responsibilities that go with the job.


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    #684
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    For goodness sakes no company CEO works any form of standard hours, nor do their key managers.

    CEOs are pretty much on call 24/7 and if you're seriously suggesting he and his CFO and other senior managers look at the clock having done their contracted number of hours and say "ok time to go home" you really are living on another planet.

    It doesn't work like that - you go home when the job is done. You don't get paid overtime - the higher salaries reflect the responsibilities that go with the job.


    Exactly yet the NBRU and Siptu have allowed this nonsense to be passed off as a saving. The company has big pockets and the unions are firmly in them.


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    #685
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Is it just me, or did the unions agree to pretty much the same "no way" cuts as before, with some token farthings taken from the top brass?

    The unions may have agreed!!
    Somehow I don't think the drivers will!!


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    #686
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    ixoy wrote: »
    Meanwhile those in the executive branch near the bottom of the pay scale (which is below 40k) are taking a pay cut and having to work the extra hours. Some of the driver's savings are at the expense of those earning earning less than the average driver.


    No they aren't having a pay cut they are losing a couple of days holidays ( so are the drivers) and they have to work an extra 3 hours a week. I'm guessing a lot of drivers would jump at the deal they got. Couple of extra hours and still take home the same money.


    It is hilarious how biased some people are in here, they would be jumping up and down if frontline staff in the health service or the gardai were having a wage cut imposed while the administrative staff just had to work a full day on Friday.

    But if it is a guy driving a bus ?no everyone should be paid more than him, won't someone think of the poor clerks. Doesn't matter they are the ones out all hours and weathers 364 days of the year dealing with customers actually collecting the revenue.

    Same not a peep out of any of these people that apparently it took a 2 day strike to convince the senior management that they should make a contribution to saving the company. No not a word they just bleet on about a 7 euro meal allowance. Not a word about executives out for lunch on the company credit card and spending a lot more than 7 euro.


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    #687
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Here is the actual deal that was agreed:
    http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/05/lrc-bus-eireann.pdf


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    #688
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    devnull wrote: »
    Here is the actual deal that was agreed:
    http://cdn.thejournal.ie/media/2013/05/lrc-bus-eireann.pdf

    I feel the clerical staff are hard done by in that proposal. If they have to step back 1 point on the scale then why not the drivers?


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    #689
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,786 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    More fare rises on the way ? I will keep using the car then.


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    #690
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ebbsy wrote: »
    More fare rises on the way ?
    Possibly, in 7.5 months time.


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    #691
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Do staff take Self-Certified sick days as holidays if at the end of the year they haven't actually used them up while sick?


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