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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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    #692
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    galwayrush wrote: »
    folly



    Is that what Sharpston's opinion indicates?




    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The Taxpayer pays, of course. Aarhus convention and Directive 2003/35/EC 'public participation' . The taxpayer has already paid for excruciatingly expensive environmental scoping and assessment studies before the objectors show up at hearings and in the courts.

    Consider it a green tax if you will.




    Consider it EU law following a UN Convention: http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/env/pp/documents/cep43e.pdf


    .


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    #693
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I consider it doubling up. First you pay a green tax rolling out scads of consultants to scope and prepare an EIS and then you pay up on the double as the consultants work is nit picked to within an inch of its life at a public hearing, ideally so that more consultants can be rolled out to restudy and then repeat the process for as ad nauseum infinitum as is possible. :(

    Meanwhile the Main Hospital for the whole of Connacht, North Munster and West Ulster is stranded on the wrong side of Galway and sick people are left dying in ambulances in the gridlock...that is, of course, because people NEVER matter in that scheme of things. The interests of the sick and of business, commerce and tourism are not represented at these hearings as there seemingly is no right of public participation for the sick and dying.

    I trust that most people reading this will forgive me for pointing out the essentially sociopathic consequences of these antics.


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    #694
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    and sick people are left dying in ambulances in the gridlock...

    The interests of the sick ... are not represented at these hearings as there seemingly is no right of public participation for the sick and dying.



    So let's see: (a) sick people are specifically excluded from democratic participation by the Arhus Convention, and (b) the death of people in traffic-stalled ambulances is an all too frequent occurrence in Galway.

    Any evidence to support either claim?


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    #695
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Downright sociopathy certainly isn't prohibited by the Aarhus convention, in fact it encourages sociopathic behaviour. But we all know that, to our cost, in Galway. :(

    Not a mention of the countervailing rights of sick and dying people in the Aarhus convention either, that is another incontrovertible fact.

    But you know it does not address Sociopathy or the rights of sick people not that it stopped you posting. :(


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    #696
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    the Aarhus convention ... encourages sociopathic behaviour

    Not a mention of the countervailing rights of sick and dying people in the Aarhus convention either



    A touch of hyperbole perhaps? Or maybe it's time to inform the UN and EU of these grotesque injustices...

    As for "the sick and dying" perishing in their droves in the back of land-based traffic-jammed emergency vehicles, if you had any evidence of such human catastrophe you'd have posted it by now.

    Or are you keeping such damning evidence in reserve for the IROPI process?


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    #697
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Obviously you care. :)


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    #698
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Obviously you care. :)





    The strings of my violin are hot and frayed.

    More heartrending hyperbole there Sponge like a good lad. :)


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    #699
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The strings of my violin are hot and frayed.

    More heartrending hyperbole there Sponge like a good lad. :)

    God forbid that anybody in an accident at rush hour (which co-incidentally ambulance shift change used to coincide with rush hour, with only one crew operating) was on the wrong side of the river and isn't treated within the "golden hour" because of this folly.

    It's probably not worth pointing out to you that Galway Hospital is not just a local facility for thine benefit, but is the main A&E for Co Galway, parts of Roscommon, Mayo, Clare and even down into Limerick (due to the downgrading of emergency care in Ennis) - a lot of those which are the better part of an hour away at the best of times.


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    #700
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    antoobrien wrote: »
    God forbid





    God: the ultimate sociopath?


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    #701
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    If a detailed environmental review has already taken place at taxpayer's expense then it is questionable whether legal action to make them check it or perform another review should be paid out of the public purse or at the expense of the objector.
    The needs of 100,000 people should come above that.


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    #702
    Cleahaigh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭Cleahaigh


    Anyway, the project is going to be stalled for another few years by the looks of things. Interestingly, looking at the most recent google maps satellite imaging it looks like good old mother nature is doing a good job of replacing the limestone pavement with hazel scrub. By the time this project starts (and it will, eventually) there will likely be no limestone pavement to worry about. Good job, NPWS.


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    #703
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Cleahaigh wrote: »
    good old mother nature is doing a good job of replacing the limestone pavement with hazel scrub.




    Will no one shout stop? ;)


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    #704
    COYI
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭COYI


    To know that an "environmentalist" living on the east coast of Ireland has the welfare of limestone pavements located on the west coast at heart is most reassuring. But to take it to a whole new level of concern and use taxpayers money by the tens of thousands to take a "case" to Europe is nothing short of endearing. Thank you for making the lives of tens of thousands of Galway motorists a twice daily nightmare for many more years than it needed to be. I imagine it is only an unfortunate circumstance that those same motorists cannot enjoy views of said limestone pavements while being interminably parked on that existing (dare I say the unspeakable phrase) "bridge over the Corrib".


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    #705
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    COYI wrote: »
    to use taxpayers money by the tens of thousands to take a "case" to Europe is nothing short of endearing.

    I imagine it is only an unfortunate circumstance that those same motorists cannot enjoy views of said limestone pavements while being interminably parked on that existing (dare I say the unspeakable phrase) "bridge over the Corrib".



    You've made a basic (and perhaps common) error in your first post. It was the Irish Supreme Court that referred the "case" to the European Court of Justice.

    Incidentally, perhaps those hundreds -- or maybe even thousands -- of motorists breaking the speed limit by a large margin every day on that existing bridge at times outside of "rush" hour are racing to "enjoy views of said limestone pavements"?


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    #706
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    How would he break a speed limit "Parked" as he said.? :(


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    #707
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    How would he break a speed limit "Parked" as he said.? :(



    Well now, for a start I wasn't suggesting for an instant that the new member might be breaking the speed limit.

    Nor did I try to claim that large numbers of motorists are speeding in acutely congested conditions:
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Incidentally, perhaps those hundreds -- or maybe even thousands -- of motorists breaking the speed limit by a large margin every day on that existing bridge at times outside of "rush" hour are racing to "enjoy views of said limestone pavements"?


    The reality is that speeding, in this case breaking the 50 km/h speed limit, is commonplace on the Quincentenary Bridge and on other sections of the N6 within the city boundary, as well as on adjacent roads.

    There have also been several serious collisions in the area over recent years (Sean Mulvoy Road included).

    Report on the Herald website, 17th January 2012:
    Car ploughed into woman at road crossing

    GARDAI are hunting a hit-and-run driver who ploughed into a woman at a pedestrian crossing.

    A major investigation was underway today after the woman suffered serious injuries.

    Officers say the 26-year-old woman was on the Headford Road in Galway city at about 8.45pm on Sunday evening when she was struck.

    The driver sped straight through a pedestrian crossing, hitting a young woman and leaving her battling serious injuries in hospital.

    [...]

    The car failed to remain at the scene and the young woman was left in considerable distress until a passing motorist stopped and went to her aid.

    She was rushed by ambulance to Galway University Hospital where she was treated for serious injuries. The woman sustained severe lower body injuries and was later transferred to Merlin Park Hospital in Galway.

    Gardai at Mill Street Station in Galway ... stressed that help from the public was essential to their investigation.

    "It is a busy road and used by people walking in and out of the city centre at all hours."


    Report in the Galway Independent, 13th February 2012:
    Cyclist injured in Terryland collision

    A male cyclist has been admitted to University Hospital Galway with a suspected broken leg, after being hit by a car on the Terryland Road.

    The man, who is believed to be in his late 50s or early 60s, was injured and transferred to hospital when the incident occurred at the pedestrian crossing beside Dunnes in Terryland this morning. The motorist stayed at the scene and gardai told the Galway Independent that they also have witnesses to the collision.

    It is the third such accident at the site in the last number of months.


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    #708
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The reality is that speeding, in this case breaking the 50 km/h speed limit, is commonplace on the Quincentenary Bridge and on other sections of the N6 within the city boundary
    I would rephrase that - sticking to the 50km/h speed limit, or below it, unless forced to by traffic - is very uncommon on the N6 within city limits.


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    #709
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    serfboard wrote: »
    I would rephrase that - sticking to the 50km/h speed limit, or below it, unless forced to by traffic - is very uncommon on the N6 within city limits.

    Most people with sense. Road should be 80km/h westbound upto the Headford Rd roundabout. 50 till the bridge, 80 again after.

    Dopey GCC are dopey. Most useless city council in Ireland. I drove in miles of traffic yesterday to the city and saw 2-3 buses with not a sinner on them other than the driver.

    - Terrible Public Transport
    - Terrible local roads
    - No bypass


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    #710
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    serfboard wrote: »
    I would rephrase that - sticking to the 50km/h speed limit, or below it, unless forced to by traffic - is very uncommon on the N6 within city limits.



    An attempt at redefining the term "speeding" perhaps? Rephrasing it makes no material, legal or ethical difference: to exceed the 50 km/h speed limit is to break the law, an offence (criminal afaik) commonly referred to as speeding.

    To quote again from one of the newspaper reports above:
    Gardai at Mill Street Station in Galway ... stressed that help from the public was essential to their investigation.

    "It is a busy road and used by people walking in and out of the city centre at all hours."


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Most people with sense. Road should be 80km/h westbound upto the Headford Rd roundabout. 50 till the bridge, 80 again after.

    Dopey GCC are dopey. Most useless city council in Ireland. I drove in miles of traffic yesterday to the city and saw 2-3 buses with not a sinner on them other than the driver.
    - Terrible Public Transport
    - Terrible local roads
    - No bypass




    In this context, "most people with sense" equates with "most motorists who feel like it".

    Leaving aside the (unintended) irony of motorists commenting on empty buses, there is little to recommend an 80 km/h speed limit on this road, most especially the Q Bridge.

    Is it not the case that one of the main arguments for the GCOB is that the QB and N6 are heavily congested?

    Is this route chronically congested or is it not?

    If yes, what effect would an 80 km/h limit have on current levels of traffic congestion?


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    #711
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    This is all completely irrelevant, the speed limit on the Bypass will be 100kph.


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    #712
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Iwannahurl wrote: »



    An attempt at redefining the term "speeding" perhaps? Rephrasing it makes no material, legal or ethical difference: to exceed the 50 km/h speed limit is to break the law, an offence (criminal afaik) commonly referred to as speeding.

    To quote again from one of the newspaper reports above:
    Gardai at Mill Street Station in Galway ... stressed that help from the public was essential to their investigation.

    "It is a busy road and used by people walking in and out of the city centre at all hours."








    In this context, "most people with sense" equates with "most motorists who feel like it".

    Leaving aside the (unintended) irony of motorists commenting on empty buses, there is little to recommend an 80 km/h speed limit on this road, most especially the Q Bridge.

    Is it not the case that one of the main arguments for the GCOB is that the QB and N6 are heavily congested?

    Is this route chronically congested or is it not?

    If yes, what effect would an 80 km/h limit have on current levels of traffic congestion?
    The route is congested if you want to go towards galway shop centre or the retail park. Not to mention anyone crossing the river.

    And as for rush hour.. forget it. For a city with f all rail link for commuters yes it does badly badly need a bypass


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    #713
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    This is all completely irrelevant, the speed limit on the Bypass will be 100kph.




    The proposed speed limit on a bypass that doesn't yet exist is irrelevant in the present context.

    It seems that there is a claim being made here that traffic congestion on the N6 route crossing the city is so bad that a bypass is urgently required, yet not too congested to justify an 80 km/h speed limit, including on the QB.


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    #714
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    For those of you so against the by-pass, what is your ideal ( affordable / practical ) solution to the terrible congestion problem that exists?


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    #715
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    he has his OWN thread in this forum for that discussion Galwayrush....if you care to read it.


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    #716
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The reality is that speeding, in this case breaking the 50 km/h speed limit, is commonplace on the Quincentenary Bridge and on other sections of the N6 within the city boundary, as well as on adjacent roads.

    I can't find any figures but to my recollection since the QB has opened, there have been less than 10 fatalities in total on the N6 between SQR and the city limit. Can you confirm if the figure is higher or lower?


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    #717
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    galwayrush wrote: »
    For those of you so against the by-pass, what is your ideal ( affordable / practical ) solution to the terrible congestion problem that exists?

    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    he has his OWN thread in this forum for that discussion Galwayrush....if you care to read it.



    Not sure who's being referred to here... :)



    antoobrien wrote: »
    I can't find any figures but to my recollection since the QB has opened, there have been less than 10 fatalities in total on the N6 between SQR and the city limit. Can you confirm if the figure is higher or lower?



    Should we be counting bodies in that manner?


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    #718
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Should we be counting bodies in that manner?

    Do you have the figures or not?


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    #719
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Nope. Try AGS or RSA.


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    #720
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Nope. Try AGS or RSA.

    Thanks, next time try that instead of being glib.


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    #721
    yer man!
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭yer man!


    I see An Taisce are claiming this is dead in the water and alternatives such as increased buses and the GLUAS should be implemented, right......

    http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/4996/2012-49/An-Taisce-claims-Bypass-'blown-out-of-the-water'


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