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23 Americans wanted for kidnapping in Italy

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  • 20-09-2012 11:37am
    #1
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/20/italy-rendition-convictions-americans
    Italy's highest criminal court on Wednesday upheld the convictions of 23 Americans found guilty of kidnapping a Muslim cleric from a Milanese street and transferring him to a country where torture was permitted. The court of cassation's ruling is the final appeal in the world's first judicial review of the CIA practice of abducting terror suspects and transferring them to third countries, a practice also known as extraordinary rendition.

    The 23 Americans were all convicted in absentia following a trial that lasted over three years. The verdict paves the way for the Italian government to seek redress and could put the Americans at risk of arrest if they travel to Europe.
    ........

    So I assume there will be no delay in the US handing over these terrorists.

    And why has there been no investigation into why the guards turned a blind eye to similar crimes in Ireland, and who ordered them to do so? :mad:


«13456

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    #2
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    People were being kidnapped from Ireland?


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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I was reading somewhere that it's unlikely that they'll ever serve time, but they're all banned from Italy (though it might have been the whole of Europe.. can't remember) and risk being arrested if discovered.


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    #4
    bluecode
    Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭bluecode


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    And why has there been no investigation into why the guards turned a blind eye to similar crimes in Ireland, and who ordered them to do so? :mad:
    Probably because it never happened. Unless you have evidence otherwise?


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    #5
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    humanji wrote: »
    People were being kidnapped from Ireland?

    No, kidnap victims were transferred through Ireland.
    bluecode wrote: »
    Probably because it never happened. Unless you have evidence otherwise?

    Keep your eyes closed.


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    #6
    Augmerson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I was reading somewhere that it's unlikely that they'll ever serve time, but they're all banned from Italy (though it might have been the whole of Europe.. can't remember) and risk being arrested if discovered.

    Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.


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    #7
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Hasnt jim carey got a film about the number 23 . I flockin knew he was working for them .


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    #8
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    No, kidnap victims were transferred through Ireland.
    Oh, right. Thought you meant they were kidnapping us.


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    #9
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    I wonder how many Italians have been caught kidnapping in america?


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    #10
    Slurryface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Slurryface


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/20/italy-rendition-convictions-americans



    So I assume there will be no delay in the US handing over these terrorists.

    And why has there been no investigation into why the guards turned a blind eye to similar crimes in Ireland, and who ordered them to do so? :mad:
    Cant find a link to anyone being kidnapped by the CIA in Ireland, can you provide one please?


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    #11
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    Augmerson wrote: »
    Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.

    dr oatker is german


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    #12
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Slurryface wrote: »
    Cant find a link to anyone being kidnapped by the CIA in Ireland, can you provide one please?

    Can't understand the word "similar"? :rolleyes:

    Kidnapping.

    Facilitating kidnapping.

    Similar.

    The penny'll drop sooner or later.


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    #13
    Augmerson
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    dr oatker is german

    :eek:


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    #14
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    This case is ancient, it was even mentioned when Amanda Knox was sentenced, saying that the Italian justice system went to town on her just because she was an American.


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    #15
    Slurryface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Slurryface


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Can't understand the word "similar"? :rolleyes:

    Kidnapping.

    Facilitating kidnapping.

    Similar.

    The penny'll drop sooner or later.

    Facilitating Kidnapping? get real, no kidnappings of this type happened in Ireland for the Garda to facilitate.
    And less of the insults, if you are unsure as to how to post I suggest you consult the charter.


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    #16
    jimmy blevins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 475 ✭✭jimmy blevins


    The CIA are welcome to take these lunatics off our hands. If they can't stand freedom of speech and the liberties offfered in the west they might appreciate it after a trip to cia rendition centre.


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    #17
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    dr oatker is german
    And I don't think he's even a doctor.


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    #18
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    humanji wrote: »
    And I don't think he's even a doctor.


    He was a doctor but I think he's well dead by now.:(
    The company was founded by Dr. August Oetker in 1891


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Oetker


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    #19
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Don't expect the US to do much.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_%281998%29

    US pilots joyriding in Italy, hit a cable car line, 20 dead they then destroyed videotape evidence. One of the pilots served four and a half months.

    on January 24, they received a formal warning for flying too low after a training take-off.
    ...
    the EA-6B was flying somewhat faster and considerably lower than allowed by military regulations. The restrictions in effect at the time required a minimum flying height of 2,000 feet (610 m); the pilot said he thought they were at 1,000 feet (305 m). The cable was cut at a height of 360 feet (110 m).
    ...
    The two men were court-martialed a second time for obstruction of justice and conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman, because they had destroyed a videotape recorded from the plane on the day of the accident.
    ...
    They were found guilty in May 1999; both were dismissed from the service and the pilot received a six-month prison term. He was released after four and a half months for good behavior. Schweitzer made a plea agreement that came to full light after the military jury deliberated upon sentencing. His agreement prevented him from serving any prison time, but it did not prevent him from receiving a dismissal.


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    #20
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    jimmy blevins wrote: »
    The CIA are welcome to take these lunatics off our hands. If they can't stand freedom of speech and the liberties offfered in the west they might appreciate it after a trip to cia rendition centre.

    Your hardly one to talk about liberties, when you support something, that clearly goes against those liberties. Simply hypocrisy imho.


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    #21
    stoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Dr. Oetker is a kidnapper?


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    #22
    Slurryface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Slurryface


    wes wrote: »
    Your hardly one to talk about liberties, when you support something, that clearly goes against those liberties. Simply hypocrisy imho.
    Nah. just real world politics. The world is full of nuts and wackjobs eager to pull of the next 9/11 style outrage, someone has to stop them before they do,
    Yes its a little distastful, yes in an ideal world it would not be necessary, but this is not an ideal world and sometimes we have to do distastful things for the better good of our society.


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    #23
    gronemeyer
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭gronemeyer


    Basically they're banned for the whole of the Schengan area http://www.axa-schengen.com/en/schengen-countries and if they set foot in any of said countries or try to under their real identities if European arrest warrants are issued they'd have to be arrested on the spot (if discovered) and extradited to Italy...


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    #24
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    Augmerson wrote: »
    Banned from Italy? Shyeeeeeet. Hope you can get Dr. Otker pizza's in the US.

    That's German...


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    #25
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Slurryface wrote: »
    Nah. just real world politics.

    No, its hypocrisy, to go about liberties etc, while not believing in any of that stuff themselves.

    If you don't believe in that stuff, then fair enough, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously, when you try and invoke freedom.
    Slurryface wrote: »
    The world is full of nuts and wackjobs eager to pull of the next 9/11 style outrage, someone has to stop them before they do,

    Great, so charge them with something, and then put them on trial and put them in jail, if found guilty. There is already a system to deal with criminals.
    Slurryface wrote: »
    Yes its a little distastful, yes in an ideal world it would not be necessary, but this is not an ideal world and sometimes we have to do distastful things for the better good of our society.

    It more than distasteful, I would call it terrorism at this point. Innocent people have been tortured and some have been tortured to death. That stuff is simply criminal in and of itself.

    Also, the US has attacked civilian rescue workers, and people at funerals. Stuff that they say is evil, when its the ther guy doing it, but then it acceptable, when they do. Also, they target any adult male as a terrorist, until proven otherwise. If someone did that to American's they would be called a terrorist.

    At this point, I see no difference between the 2 sides, what with both torturing and murders civilians as they please. The murder of rescue workers is particularly striking, due the 9/11 justification being offered up in defense. How are the US any better after murdering rescue workers?


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    #26
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Extraordinary rendition = kidnapping

    Yes, didn't they openly admit to bringing their "subjects" (kidnappees) through Shannon?


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    #27
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .
    Anyone says different is just a red tape loving beauracrat .


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    #28
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .

    lmao


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    #29
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    cloptrop wrote: »
    Why do people have a problem with this . Im happy in the knowledge the CIA are keeping **** safe .
    Anyone says different is just a red tape loving beauracrat .
    I'm on the phone at the moment so can someone else post the Team America video?

    Cheers.


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    #30
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Slurryface wrote: »
    Facilitating Kidnapping? get real, no kidnappings of this type happened in Ireland for the Garda to facilitate.
    And less of the insults, if you are unsure as to how to post I suggest you consult the charter.

    Maybe the penny'll drop with you that you're not a mod.

    It's common knowledge that kidnap victims were shipped through this country by the US.

    Even Dermot Ahern was convinced.


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    #31
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Slurryface wrote: »
    Facilitating Kidnapping? get real, no kidnappings of this type happened in Ireland for the Garda to facilitate.
    And less of the insults, if you are unsure as to how to post I suggest you consult the charter.

    Maybe the penny'll drop with you that you're not a mod.

    It's common knowledge that kidnap victims were shipped through this country by the US.

    Even Dermot Ahern was convinced.
    The fella that did big brother was in on it ?


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