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Improvement to rail routes (EDIT: using existing network)

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    #32
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    110km from Sligo to Letterkenny. 133km or so the old route via Strabane and Omagh. Also - unless you want to backtrack to Collooney you have to get across to the other side of Sligo Harbour to get started.

    Letterkenny-Derry is 38km via the Lough Swilly Railway route but once again you have to get across a harbour to link up with the rest of the island, plus much of the alignment appears to have been built over particularly near Derry itself - though if a new bridge was built then a new approach would likely be needed anyway probably. "Best" option would be to do a handbrake turn northeast of Newtownmountcunningham for Killea and head into Derry to Londonderry Foyle Road on the Londonderry and Enniskillen - but still on the wrong bank for connection to the network - plus the Foyle Valley Railway would have to be evicted.

    Oh and the money involved would probably pay to raise the Sligo, Galway, Waterford and Tralee lines to 125mph, never mind 100.


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    #33
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    dowlingm wrote: »
    110km from Sligo to Letterkenny. 133km or so the old route via Strabane and Omagh. Also - unless you want to backtrack to Collooney you have to get across to the other side of Sligo Harbour to get started.

    Letterkenny-Derry is 38km via the Lough Swilly Railway route but once again you have to get across a harbour to link up with the rest of the island, plus much of the alignment appears to have been built over particularly near Derry itself - though if a new bridge was built then a new approach would likely be needed anyway probably. "Best" option would be to do a handbrake turn northeast of Newtownmountcunningham for Killea and head into Derry to Londonderry Foyle Road on the Londonderry and Enniskillen - but still on the wrong bank for connection to the network - plus the Foyle Valley Railway would have to be evicted.

    Oh and the money involved would probably pay to raise the Sligo, Galway, Waterford and Tralee lines to 125mph, never mind 100.

    The Foyle Valley Railway has been inactive since 2000, when Derry City Council installed a cycleway beside the track and it was consequently closed by their Health and Safety people. The museum is only open sporadically and the track is disused.

    The Lower Deck of the Craigavon Bridge was originally for interconnecting the four railway termini in Derry, it would not be impossible to reconvert it and provide a cross river connection to the Waterside station. There could then be a new Foyle Road halt for the cityside.


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    #34
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    dowlingm wrote: »
    110km from Sligo to Letterkenny. 133km or so the old route via Strabane and Omagh. Also - unless you want to backtrack to Collooney you have to get across to the other side of Sligo Harbour to get started.

    Letterkenny-Derry is 38km via the Lough Swilly Railway route but once again you have to get across a harbour to link up with the rest of the island, plus much of the alignment appears to have been built over particularly near Derry itself - though if a new bridge was built then a new approach would likely be needed anyway probably. "Best" option would be to do a handbrake turn northeast of Newtownmountcunningham for Killea and head into Derry to Londonderry Foyle Road on the Londonderry and Enniskillen - but still on the wrong bank for connection to the network - plus the Foyle Valley Railway would have to be evicted.

    Oh and the money involved would probably pay to raise the Sligo, Galway, Waterford and Tralee lines to 125mph, never mind 100.

    There always seems to be a bottomless pit of money for compo for landowners for road schemes...


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    #35
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    corktina wrote: »
    why not? because a connecting bus could do the same job at almost no capital cost and we have no capital....

    tbh you'll be lucky to have a rail line in Sligo AT ALL in ten years time, never mind an extention to Co Donegal...and to be honest, Letterkenny is a small town with little or no potential traffic on offer. SO lets keep it realistic, if you want to start a thread about potential new lines do so, but this thread surely is about improving what we've already got.

    Obviously never been to Letterkenny in the last ten years then. It's a sprawling place and those who know the stats well will be able to say what the population is.

    But this isn't just about serviing the people of Letterkenny with a railway connection, it's also about opening up the North West to tourist traffic and providing an alternative method of getting freight up there other than by road.

    Motorways and Railways aren't and should never be mutually exclusive in any case.

    As to the existing network, not only would I upgrade the network to cope with 160 km+ speeds, I'd also double it. Double it everywhere it's single. Otherwise what's the point of updating the speeds if the train frequency is limited by only having one train in one direction on a single block?


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    #36
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    dowlingm wrote: »
    110km from Sligo to Letterkenny. 133km or so the old route via Strabane and Omagh. Also - unless you want to backtrack to Collooney you have to get across to the other side of Sligo Harbour to get started.

    Letterkenny-Derry is 38km via the Lough Swilly Railway route but once again you have to get across a harbour to link up with the rest of the island, plus much of the alignment appears to have been built over particularly near Derry itself - though if a new bridge was built then a new approach would likely be needed anyway probably. "Best" option would be to do a handbrake turn northeast of Newtownmountcunningham for Killea and head into Derry to Londonderry Foyle Road on the Londonderry and Enniskillen - but still on the wrong bank for connection to the network - plus the Foyle Valley Railway would have to be evicted.

    Oh and the money involved would probably pay to raise the Sligo, Galway, Waterford and Tralee lines to 125mph, never mind 100.

    Translink and the Stormont government would be key stakeholders in the line so I wouldn't assume the whole cost would be borne by the Irish state.

    There may be scope to get the line to terminate at the old CDR station iif the line came in via Lifford and Strabane and maybe then extend the old NCC line across to the old CDR station? Or else aim for a new station on the GNR site and have a track running down the centre of the lower deck of the Craigavon bridge to connect the Letterkenny line with the rest of the Translink network.

    The Foyle Valley Railway is as another poster has pointed out, virtually extinct, but this does open up an opportunity to re-open the old GNR station as a new central terminal for Derry.


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    #37
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    Of course if the link were built between Derry and Letterkenny and then onto Sligo then the whole concept behind the WRC really comes to fruition. Being able to run trains all the way from Belfast down to Limerick and Cork via Sligo and Ennis would really open up the North West and the West. Of course the Burma Road between Colooney and Claremorris would need to be relaid.

    In addition the section between Rosslare and Waterford should be restored - it's madness that this line was allowed to close. Rosslare has key ferry links between Ireland, Britain and the Continent which should have good rail connections. How about Motorail connections between Rosslare and Kerry?

    There is a lot of potential with our railways that we seem to miss out on or ignore. What we do need is some real blue sky thinking about our railways in order to think the unthinkable and get our country out of the rut we find ourselves in.


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    #38
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Wote wrote: »
    Getting rail connections to Donegal is technically possible, we just need the political will to do it.

    ...........And the passengers to use it.


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    #39
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    Do you know anything about Letterkenny? Small town it is not.

    in terms of buillding a railway to it, its a small town.... when we cant even build a line to Dublin Airport, talk iof rail building in Donegal is lunacy.


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    #40
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    Are you a mod?

    Always wanted to be but by the time I could afford a scooter, it was too late....


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    #41
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    Lapin wrote: »
    ...........And the passengers to use it.


    Letterkenny to Derry in a recent report commissioned by CIE scored better than the existing services Manulla - Ballina, Limerick - Waterford and Limerick - Ballybrophy.

    It also scored better than other suggested rail services Midleton - Youghal, Tuam - Claremorris, Mullingar - Athlone, a direct Limerick curve from Charleville and the Drogheda - Navan branch.

    It's on the Irish Rail website.


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    #42
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    No-one has ever asked the people of Donegal about railways. You might get an answer that you wouldn't want to hear..
    Of course they'd say yes to a railway, who wouldn't.
    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    161,137 people at the last census is not 1% of the population. Do the math.
    MN was to serve Dublin airport, of which there were 18.7 million journeys through in 2011. Population of Donegal is 0.8% of that.


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    #43
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    corktina wrote: »
    in terms of buillding a railway to it, its a small town.... when we cant even build a line to Dublin Airport, talk iof rail building in Donegal is lunacy.

    So you say. But there is no logical reason why building railways must be a zero-sum game because you say so.


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    #44
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    god save us from traiinspotter mentality....railways everywhere to any remote corner, never mind the economics, Have some of you learnt nothing from the WRC?


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    #45
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,326 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Look, this is nothing against Donegal as such but the principal advantage of rail is MASS transport, whether that be of goods or of freight, or FAST transportation, much faster than the parallel road. A rail alignment to Derry (never mind Sligo) would likely be similar to the WRC in speed because of topographical limitations and the demand upgrade would likely be limited over the existing service because of that. Building an expensive railway alignment good for maybe 50 or 60mph and then demanding a 100mph 22000 class or a 90mph C4K to run over it at perhaps 1/3 or less its capacity is nothing short of a vanity at a time when people are seeing existing services of all kinds, not merely transport, cut to the bone.

    But I find advocates for a Donegal railway rarely have time for reality checks - it's generally parity of esteem and GAA jerseys all the way. Here's another of the sort.


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    #46
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    corktina wrote: »
    god save us from traiinspotter mentality....railways everywhere to any remote corner, never mind the economics, Have some of you learnt nothing from the WRC?

    Did I ever say anything about motive power? I'm not remotely interested in spotting trains but I am interested in infrastructure and particularly in a part of the country that has been neglected because of partition.

    Over 161,000 people centreing on two towns, Donegal for the south of the county and Letterkenny in the north come to over 80,000 each.

    You may not like the facts but we exist.


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    #47
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    corktina wrote: »
    in terms of buillding a railway to it, its a small town.... when we cant even build a line to Dublin Airport, talk iof rail building in Donegal is lunacy.

    Is it lunacy? Don't think so. Think for one minute about the bigger picture. Get out of the 1950s mentality and start thinking about how the country needs to be literally built up again from where we are now.

    Yes, we need a rail line to Dublin Airport too. We need to think about a transport strategy for the country, not just in terms of how a private bus operator can cream off some inter city traffic for profit.

    Letterkenny is one of Ireland's fastest growing urban areas. We need to also ensure that the state is managed for all its citizens, not just those who happen to live in Cork or Dublin.

    I particularly think the building of a rail line to Letterkenny from Derry is another opportunity to strengthen cross border co-operation and a golden opportunity to open up one of Ireland's most beautiful counties to more tourist traffic.


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    #48
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    Did I ever say anything about motive power? I'm not remotely interested in spotting trains but I am interested in infrastructure and particularly in a part of the country that has been neglected because of partition.

    Over 161,000 people centreing on two towns, Donegal for the south of the county and Letterkenny in the north come to over 80,000 each.

    You may not like the facts but we exist.

    Well said.


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    #49
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Over 161,000 people centreing on two towns, Donegal for the south of the county and Letterkenny in the north come to over 80,000 each.

    You may not like the facts but we exist.

    Then same could be said for Limerick-Ennis-Galway and look what a mess thats turned out to be....

    Would support Derry-Letterkenny/Donegal more as it would have more use and would be better all round IMO.


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    #50
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    Did I ever say anything about motive power? I'm not remotely interested in spotting trains but I am interested in infrastructure and particularly in a part of the country that has been neglected because of partition.

    Over 161,000 people centreing on two towns, Donegal for the south of the county and Letterkenny in the north come to over 80,000 each.

    You may not like the facts but we exist.

    check the times...im not clairvoyant...


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    #51
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Look, this is nothing against Donegal as such but the principal advantage of rail is MASS transport, whether that be of goods or of freight, or FAST transportation, much faster than the parallel road. A rail alignment to Derry (never mind Sligo) would likely be similar to the WRC in speed because of topographical limitations and the demand upgrade would likely be limited over the existing service because of that. Building an expensive railway alignment good for maybe 50 or 60mph and then demanding a 100mph 22000 class or a 90mph C4K to run over it at perhaps 1/3 or less its capacity is nothing short of a vanity at a time when people are seeing existing services of all kinds, not merely transport, cut to the bone.

    But I find advocates for a Donegal railway rarely have time for reality checks - it's generally parity of esteem and GAA jerseys all the way. Here's another of the sort.

    I'm not advocating rail links tomorrow, and I've said nothing about GAA jerseys or whatever nonsense you are having yourself.

    Why do certain posters appear to have an imperative to shout down any talk about expanding the railways?


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    #52
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Wote wrote: »
    Well said.

    both those towns would be better served with better roads both towards Dublin and the N17 corridor, not to mention links to the North. These would benefit everyone, not just the few that would use a train, most of whom would be on free passes anyway.


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    #53
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    corktina wrote: »
    check the times...im not clairvoyant...

    Nor am I.


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    #54
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    The Idyll Race wrote: »
    Why do certain posters appear to have an imperative to shout down any talk about expanding the railways?

    ijn this case because it is OFF TOPIC.... thuis thread is about improvements to existing lines and is being hijacked.


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    #55
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    corktina wrote: »
    both those towns would be better served with better roads both towards Dublin and the N17 corridor, not to mention links to the North. These would benefit everyone, not just the few that would use a train, most of whom would be on free passes anyway.


    What statistics do you have to prove your assertion about free passes?


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    #56
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    corktina wrote: »
    ijn this case because it is OFF TOPIC.... thuis thread is about improvements to existing lines and is being hijacked.

    I suggested an extension to the existing Sligo and Derry lines. In what way is that hijacking?


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    #57
    The Idyll Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 367 ✭✭The Idyll Race


    Wote wrote: »
    Is it lunacy? Don't think so. Think for one minute about the bigger picture. Get out of the 1950s mentality and start thinking about how the country needs to be literally built up again from where we are now.

    Yes, we need a rail line to Dublin Airport too. We need to think about a transport strategy for the country, not just in terms of how a private bus operator can cream off some inter city traffic for profit.

    Letterkenny is one of Ireland's fastest growing urban areas. We need to also ensure that the state is managed for all its citizens, not just those who happen to live in Cork or Dublin.

    I particularly think the building of a rail line to Letterkenny from Derry is another opportunity to strengthen cross border co-operation and a golden opportunity to open up one of Ireland's most beautiful counties to more tourist traffic.

    Well said. This country will remain on its knees while we know the price of everything and the value of nothing.


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    #58
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    well, im afraid again Im not clairvoyant. I cant provide you with statistics until the line is built. I bet Paddy Power would offer you odds on it though...

    You want a Train because other people have a train. Do you not see that a Bus Service would be infinitely cheaper and just as useful? It would run on Infrastructure that everyone could use and share the cost of too, making infiinite journeys possible starting and finishing off the route (which rail cant do) and benefit freight movements too.


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    #59
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    Can you stop the back seat modding and keep the thread on topic please. What improvements to the rail network would you propose?

    I've made a number of positive proposals. Here they are in summary:

    Double any existing single mainlines.
    Build a line from Derry to Letterkenny with a view to extending it to Sligo and the WRC.
    Build a line to Dublin Airport.
    Re-open the Rosslare - Waterford line and approach services in a new and innovative way

    Your proposals?


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    #60
    Wote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭Wote


    corktina wrote: »
    both those towns would be better served with better roads both towards Dublin and the N17 corridor, not to mention links to the North. These would benefit everyone, not just the few that would use a train, most of whom would be on free passes anyway.


    Some back up with facts on that statement would be useful.


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    #61
    Neewbie_noob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Neewbie_noob


    Wote wrote: »
    Can you stop the back seat modding and keep the thread on topic please. What improvements to the rail network would you propose?

    I've made a number of positive proposals. Here they are in summary:

    Double any existing single mainlines.
    Build a line from Derry to Letterkenny with a view to extending it to Sligo and the WRC.
    Build a line to Dublin Airport.
    Re-open the Rosslare - Waterford line and approach services in a new and innovative way

    Your proposals?

    Reopen the tunnel underneath the Phoenix Park so Connolly can finally be relinked to Heuston and the West. Why was this closed anyway ? Is it still used for freight?


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