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Irish Rail - 5pm DART from Pearse now only 4 carriages long

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  • 11-07-2012 5:15pm
    #1
    RoryMurphyJnr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭


    Can anyone tell me why the 5pm dart from Pearse to greystones now only has 4 carriages?

    Resulting in most passengers standing the whole way home not to mention the heat.
    This right at the start of rush.
    Ta
    R


«134

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    #2
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,581 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Cost cutting I'd imagine.


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    #3
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    How many dart carriages do IE have and how many are used in service each day?

    I know it will save fuel etc, but if they cut too much they will just have non performing assets sitting around?


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    #4
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    devnull wrote: »
    I know it will save fuel etc, but if they cut too much they will just have non performing assets sitting around?

    The thing is, unlike the Commuters and Intercitys, DARTs are not powered by any fuel. They are powered by the overhead wires. Additionally, the overhead wires are always live when the DARTs are in operation. As such, I cannot see how shortening trains lowers their operational cost. Unless, four extra carriages draw a significantly higher amount of energy from the overhead wires. However, I would have thought that electrified carriages, in general, are many times more economical and energy efficient than their diesel cousins.:confused:

    Anyway, back to the topic at hand, this also happened to me yesterday on the exact same service coming back from Pearse (i.e the 5:00PM Greystones service). Either-way, it is unacceptable to cram peak hour commuters into a four carriage train like a sardine can.:mad:


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    #5
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Maybe there are issues with the availability of rolling stock?


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    #6
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    A lot of people have been asking this on twitter and the stock answer is:
    There is reduced capacity on a number of services due to lower seasonal demand
    Some services have reduced capacity due to lower seasonal demand
    Hi, there is reduced capacity on some services at present due to lower seasonal demand.


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    #7
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    That's a load of BS. The rush hours DARTs in the mornings are only 4 cars aswell and are too over crowded. 6 minimum is needed at all times. 8 cars on all DARTs from 6am-10am and 4pm to 8pm.

    There is no excuse to operate DARTs are pre 2000 capacity. At this rate I'm going back to my car.


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    #8
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,025 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    The Dart has usually dropped a few carriages on some sets in July and August as commuter passenger numbers drop significantly during the school and summer holidays. The power saving would be reasonable as the trains will be consuming pro rata less electricity than a longer set. A lot of servicing on sets is undertaken around this time of year as well.


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    #9
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    That's a load of BS. The rush hours DARTs in the mornings are only 4 cars aswell and are too over crowded. 6 minimum is needed at all times. 8 cars on all DARTs from 6am-10am and 4pm to 8pm.

    There is no excuse to operate DARTs are pre 2000 capacity. At this rate I'm going back to my car.

    You should have seen the Maynooth line. For most of 1998 I travelled in the guard's van to work. I regularly got on and off from the ditch as the guard's van didn't reach the platform. And this was in leafy Castleknock, not some out of the way place.


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    #10
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,568 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Same with the 7.45 from Howth, previously was 8 carriages at peak, now 4. It's always helpful that the drivers don't turn on the air conditioning and in some cases have the heating on in the non window opening DARTs just to everyone can feel that extra bit ill.

    Irish Rail is a joke of an organisation with regards to taking customer feedback, they annually run a survey about what station you think it the best on the route, as if I would decide to go to Bray in the mornings because it's a lovely station instead of my local station in Howth :rolleyes:, it's something no passanger has any preferance on whatsoever. They never have any surveys on passenger comfort on the DARTs or rather lack of it, drivers not knowing when to heat the carriages and when not to.


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    #11
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,479 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    The Dart has usually dropped a few carriages on some sets in July and August as commuter passenger numbers drop significantly during the school and summer holidays.

    stats for that? While you can discount the school kids alright not ever commuter goes on holidays for all of july and aug you know. maybe a 10-15% drop in number but I seriously doubt it's 50%
    given that even when at absolute peak they have numerous sets out of operation anyway(as you can see going past Clontarf) maintenance should be easy to spread evenly throughout the year rather than concentrated


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    #12
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,308 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Maybe there are issues with the availability of rolling stock?
    Plenty of stock available.


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    #13
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,326 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I guess they have a theory that 80% of 9-5 workers take their fortnights holidays in July/August, therefore on any day of these two months there are 20% less commuters than normal at morning and evening peak.

    And this was possibly true one time, but there may well be a changing trend of people taking holidays at different times.

    And one-off events like the Euros with Irish qualification might have suddenly seen a lot of commuters use their holidays earlier than normal and be working straight through July and August (I'd definitely be one :().


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    #14
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    It's just miserable penny-pinching from some manegerial bean counter who has forgotten the number of kids who will be using the dart to go everywhere else besides school during the holidays, Also they reduce rolling stock by 50% for a 20% decrease in passengers for a service which would have been fairly full with 8 carriages........beggars belief.


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    #15
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    beggars belief.

    You know, it doesn't really. Us users (prisoners) of the Maynooth line view DART users as spoilt, what with being able to get seats, having trains that are much faster and quieter over a comparable distance, being able to get a train home after 9pm on Sundays after 11:15pm weekdays, having a service more frequently than hourly etc.


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    #16
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    n97 mini wrote: »
    You know, it doesn't really. Us users (prisoners) of the Maynooth line view DART users as spoilt, what with being able to get seats, having trains that are much faster and quieter over a comparable distance, being able to get a train home after 9pm on Sundays after 11:15pm weekdays, having a service more frequently than hourly etc.
    But loike Maynooth is not loike Blackrock or Killoiney, the dart has its own accent and the only thing the maynooth line has is a quick turnaround and back to civilisation:D

    I remember when Maynooth only had 2 commuter "wagon" trains morning and evening plus standing room only on the Sligo cattle carts. The old station staff member was a bit of a pr1ck at times was often late pulling up the shutter and would often pull the shutter down before the trains arrived so anyone who was just a bit late had no chance of getting the train!


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    #17
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    its irish rail, need i say more? they realy need to get a grip and listen to the customer feedback they get, but as usual they won't of course because that would make sense

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #18
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    I do have to laugh at this one. They had the DART closed on weekends a little under nine years ago so that they could rebuild the station platforms to accommodate eight-carriage trains. And here we are in 2012 with four-car DART trains during peak hours. It's not operating costs, since with electrified trains, those are minimal depending on train length; it sounds to me like maintenance/reliability problems and the company isn't telling the public. (We going to go back to two-car DARTs off-peak as well, like when the DART service first started in the 80s?)

    BTW, as far as the DMUs go, they have better seating than the DART, faster top speeds (only the 8500/8600 class DART approaches the top speed of DMUs), acceleration very close to the EMUs, no annoying AC traction motor whine, and lavatories. I think I'd regard myself as spoiled riding those compared to a cattle-car DART.


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    #19
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    CIE wrote: »
    BTW, as far as the DMUs go, they have better seating than the DART, faster top speeds (only the 8500/8600 class DART approaches the top speed of DMUs), acceleration very close to the EMUs, no annoying AC traction motor whine, and lavatories. I think I'd regard myself as spoiled riding those compared to a cattle-car DART.

    I'd give up all those things in exchange for a fast, frequent service.

    BTW, whine of en electric motor is far preferable to the rattle and fumes of a diesel engine.


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    #20
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    I feel for all of you, the dart is an absolute joke, it hasn't improved over the years at all. Must be the slowest public transport line in Europe too, it snails along. I'm from near Harmonstown station so I used it in the past. It's fine after about 9am as it's not too busy but if you work in town you're much better off cycling which I did for years. I live in London now and the tube can get busy but at least they come every minute or two.
    What really needs to be done for the dart to improve? Can they even put more trains on in the morning with the other routes coming into connolly etc?


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    #21
    Pipmae
    Registered Users Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭Pipmae


    I was wondering what the point of the digital notice displays saying "Darts can be 4 carriages so move up the platform for boarding" or something to that effect. It makes sense now.


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    #22
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well Dart Underground is what is needed, it would allow them to increase frequency greatly.

    I agree that what you want is a fast frequent service, much better then the current set up of high capacity (normally) but low frequency and slow.

    There are some massive gaps in the schedule, particularly on a Sunday that making the DART just painful to use. Often better off getting a bus!!

    Perhaps the experts here will know, but wasn't improved signal works recently completed in the city center area? Will this signalling work not allow for more trains and more frequent DART service?

    Because unfortunately, Dart Underground is not going to happen in the foreseeable future, so we need to figure out a way of upgrading the DART service without it.


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    #23
    washman3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭washman3


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It's just miserable penny-pinching from some manegerial bean counter who has forgotten the number of kids who will be using the dart to go everywhere else besides school during the holidays, Also they reduce rolling stock by 50% for a 20% decrease in passengers for a service which would have been fairly full with 8 carriages........beggars belief.


    Its cutbacks,plain and simple. It's what the majority voted for in the last election. If you think this is bad just wait and see whats coming.!! and forget all the media spin you hear every day about a "recovery" :mad:


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    #24
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I'd give up all those things in exchange for a fast, frequent service.

    BTW, whine of en electric motor is far preferable to the rattle and fumes of a diesel engine.
    How many trains per hour is "frequent", and what average speed is "fast"?

    I remember when four-car DARTs were running every five minutes during the day per direction (12 trains per hour) and two-car DARTs ran every ten minutes during off hours. The 8100 class accelerated rather slowly when first put into service, too; acceleration improved with age (and probably overhauls), but it'll still never get above 100 km/h, and they'll never send twelve trains per hour to Maynooth or up to Drogheda if those lines ever get converted to DART, and if you really have to answer nature's call, you're going to have to jump out at one of the stations and catch the next train (and if the train is delayed by signals/congestion, start praying).
    bk wrote: »
    Well DART Underground is what is needed; it would allow them to increase frequency greatly
    I keep seeing this repeated as some manner of mantra, by lots of people. What I never see is any evidence that merely re-routing existing services would ever do such a thing; only see rhetoric about the "loop line" and its congestion (well for the spoiled lumpen proletariat, if you had to live in the 70s when most trains from the northern lines did not even serve the Loop Line, Tara Street was closed every weekend, and even Howth trains terminated at Inset Platform 4 in Connolly, where would ye be?) And if average speeds take a hit, I don't give a whit about frequency; four trains per hour is enough for me, so long as I can get an average speed at least in the 26-30 mph range (DART's average speed is 25 mph; Luas' average speed seems to be stuck at 16-18 mph). And oh yes; I'd like to be able to get to the city centre without having to transfer at Pearse (having that many transfer passengers will really congest the Loop Line trains beyond belief).


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    #25
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    washman3 wrote: »
    Its cutbacks,plain and simple. It's what the majority voted for in the last election. If you think this is bad just wait and see whats coming.!! and forget all the media spin you hear every day about a "recovery" :mad:
    Ever read the Third Amendment to Ireland's Constitution (1972)? It made European law supreme to Irish law. The country's been a vassal of Germany for all those years. Any "rebels" out there who would dare take on Germany?


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    #26
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    How frequent?

    As you say every 5 minutes peak and every 10 mintues off peak.

    Hell even 15 minutes wouldn't be so bad. At the moment you frequently get caught with 22 minute waits at weekends and sometimes even as much as 40 minutes!!


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    #27
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 13,025 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    stats for that? While you can discount the school kids alright not ever commuter goes on holidays for all of july and aug you know. maybe a 10-15% drop in number but I seriously doubt it's 50%
    given that even when at absolute peak they have numerous sets out of operation anyway(as you can see going past Clontarf) maintenance should be easy to spread evenly throughout the year rather than concentrated

    Every commuter service has a huge drop in numbers in June-August, Christmas, Easter and mid term weeks as schools knock off and people take off for holidays and that. It would be closer to 25% of a drop taking schools into account.


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    #28
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,568 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Cookie_Monster wrote: »

    Every commuter service has a huge drop in numbers in June-August, Christmas, Easter and mid term weeks as schools knock off and people take off for holidays and that. It would be closer to 25% of a drop taking schools into account.

    But a 5pm service from Pearse would be mostly workers returning from work, perhaps a 5-10% reduction in these months with people going on holidays, that doesn't explain the reduced capacity.

    When the bean counters take in to account the stoppages that will result from people collapsing with the heat and having to be evacuated by ambulance along with increased personal injury claims from congested carriages they will find leaving it as it was made mist sense.


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    #29
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    i was also baffled getting on a pearse yesterday at half 5... the bleedin thing was packed! and quite a few people couldnt fit on at pearse, grand canal dock , and lansdowne...

    you can make a complaint here. Why they think this is ok is beyond me!

    http://www.irishrail.ie/index.jsp?p=117&n=227


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    #30
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,581 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well perhaps you should get in touch with the Minister for Transport whose Department are cutting the subsidy to IE.

    Something eventually has to give....


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    #31
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    I can't understand why it's either 4 or 8, surely if they used mostly 6 carriages they'd have the same effect?


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