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A dublin orange parade?

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24567…12

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    #32
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    tayto lover wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Why would the Dublin and Wicklow lodge go up to Dundalk to parade when they are from Dublin?

    Oh i'm sure some of the religious brethern from the North would only be too eager to attend.

    Really? And you would know this how?


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    #33
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    junder wrote: »
    Really? And you would know this how?

    Some of them told me.


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    #34
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    junder wrote: »
    So Irish citizens are not allowed to parade on thier own capital city?

    But you're the Dublin and Wicklow lodge. Why wouldn't Wicklow town be an entirely suitable place to march, and it would allay the fears you say your members have about marching in Dublin.


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    #35
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    tayto lover wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Really? And you would know this how?

    Some of them told me.

    Sure they did. Well so far most of you have confirmed our suspicions that dispite saying that unionist culture will be welcome in a united Ireland, so far we have 3 pages that say different and as a unionist / loyalist I can tell you that the loyal orders are a fundamentally important part of my culture as will be born out next week when 100,000s of people across northern Ireland, Scotland and yes even England will be out watching or taking part in the 12th (in which no effigys will be burnt)


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    #36
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    junder wrote: »
    So Irish citizens are not allowed to parade on thier own capital city?

    Not British no?

    They are subversives who want this state destroyed by way of implementing British rule, the Special Branch should infiltrate them to make sure the public are protected.


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    #37
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    AltAccount wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    So Irish citizens are not allowed to parade on thier own capital city?

    But you're the Dublin and Wicklow lodge. Why wouldn't Wicklow town be an entirely suitable place to march, and it would allay the fears you say your members have about marching in Dublin.

    I'm not in the Dublin and Wicklow lodge


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    #38
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    Folks, can we take it easy on the smart-arse one-liner comments? Thanks.


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    #39
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    gurramok wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    So Irish citizens are not allowed to parade on thier own capital city?

    Not British no?

    They are subversives who want this state destroyed by way of implementing British rule, the Special Branch should infiltrate them to make sure the public are protected.

    British? You tell me they are after born and reared in the republic of ireland. Moreover if they do indentify with being British, so what? Republicans keep telling us we are irish, is this now not the case? And subversive in what way exactly? If this was the case surly you government would have proscribed the Dublin lodge?


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    #40
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    junder wrote: »
    I'm not in the Dublin and Wicklow lodge

    Apologies, because you've mentioned this specific lodge, and no other, four times (five including this post, as some wiseass will probably point out) I presumed you were speaking as a member.

    Getting away from this silly gaffe of mine, they're the Dublin and Wicklow lodge. Why wouldn't Wicklow town be an entirely suitable place to march, and it would allay the fears you say their members have about marching in Dublin.


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    #41
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    Please be aware that it was compulsory to bring up children of mixed marriages as Catholic in the Republic until relatively recently. That is not a valid position.

    Not true. Father RC, mother COI, brought up COI.

    Personally, I have no issue with a march in Dublin and members of the OO are welcome from Dublin, Wicklow, Belfast, Portadown, Liverpool or wherever. If people have a problem with it, they should hold their own peaceful protest against it.


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    #42
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    AltAccount wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    I'm not in the Dublin and Wicklow lodge

    Apologies, because you've mentioned this specific lodge, and no other, four times (five including this post, as some wiseass will probably point out) I presumed you were speaking as a member.

    Getting away from this silly gaffe of mine, they're the Dublin and Wicklow lodge. Why wouldn't Wicklow town be an entirely suitable place to march, and it would allay the fears you say their members have about marching in Dublin.

    To make a point that this is a local lodge in Dublin wanting to walk in thier capital city and not the Belfast 12th walking O'connel street. Moreover orange parades do take Place in villages in the republic, but is this the only way the orange order is allowed to parade in the republic. I am sure the Dublin and Wicklow lodge would quite happly parade innwicklow town if they are allowed, but it begs the question would they be allowed to parade in Wicklow town? And why should parading in Wicklow preclude them parading in Dublin


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    #43
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    COYW wrote: »
    Not true. Father RC, mother COI, brought up COI.

    Personally, I have no issue with a march in Dublin and members of the OO are welcome from Dublin, Wicklow, Belfast, Portadown, Liverpool or wherever. If people have a problem with it, they should hold their own peaceful protest against it.

    I believe it was a maternal thing in response to the first point.

    What is the aim of the march?

    It does seem to massively conflagrate the idea the unionism==protestantism. There aren't any unionists in the republic any more (obivously there are protestants). An Orange March in the republic could only be a celebration of Protestantism, but would lose any of the political camoflague afforded it in the North, and so could only be judged on the merits of its religous beliefs which are quite frankly from a couple of centuries ago. Something I'm personally not a massive fan of having 'celebrated'.


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    #44
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    the cost of cleaning up should have our government refuse this riot provoking march


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    #45
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    junder wrote: »
    To make a point that this is a local lodge in Dublin wanting to walk in thier capital city and not the Belfast 12th walking O'connel street. Moreover orange parades do take Place in villages in the republic, but is this the only way the orange order is allowed to parade in the republic. I am sure the Dublin and Wicklow lodge would quite happly parade innwicklow town if they are allowed, but it begs the question would they be allowed to parade in Wicklow town? And why should parading in Wicklow preclude them parading in Dublin

    So are we moving the goalposts - to should the OO be allowed to march in the centre of Dublin?


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    #46
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    COYW wrote: »
    Not true. Father RC, mother COI, brought up COI.
    Interesting, not the policy in Munster.


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    #47
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    junder wrote: »
    British? You tell me they are after born and reared in the republic of ireland. Moreover if they do indentify with being British, so what? Republicans keep telling us we are irish, is this now not the case? And subversive in what way exactly? If this was the case surly you government would have proscribed the Dublin lodge?

    Make up your mind, are they British or Irish?

    They are a religious hate group who are anti-gay, anti-Catholic and anti-secular. You follow these beliefs?

    As I said, they are undermining the Irish state by wanting it abolished and absorbed into the UK.


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    #48
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    An irish perspective on the speech, (although being the independent I can already envisage the replys)


    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...y-3158344.html

    A slightly more mature response. Sadly not shared by most of the posters on this thread. We as unionist are told to move on but it seems what's good for the goose is not good for the gander as it seems many republicans can't move on from negative stereotypes of the past.


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    #49
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    gurramok wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    British? You tell me they are after born and reared in the republic of ireland. Moreover if they do indentify with being British, so what? Republicans keep telling us we are irish, is this now not the case? And subversive in what way exactly? If this was the case surly you government would have proscribed the Dublin lodge?

    Make up your mind, are they British or Irish?

    They are a religious hate group who are anti-gay, anti-Catholic and anti-secular. You follow these beliefs?

    As I said, they are undermining the Irish state by wanting it abolished and absorbed into the UK.

    Why do I need to make up my mind for them. They are what they perceive themselves to be. They are however born in the republic and carry Irish passports so regardless of what they may perceive themselves as being, they are citzens of the Irish republic.


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    #50
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    More context please, is that the same 'Nelson'?


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    #51
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    junder, we've been over this: please don't cut and paste entire articles. You should be able to edit your own articles in-thread - it is not our job to do this for you, and normally these kinds of posts are infracted and/or deleted.


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    #52
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    junder wrote: »
    An irish perspective on the speech, (although being the independent I can already envisage the replys)


    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...y-3158344.html

    A slightly more mature response. Sadly not shared by most of the posters on this thread. We as unionist are told to move on but it seems what's good for the goose is not good for the gander as it seems many republicans can't move on from negative stereotypes of the past.



    The article doesn't say very much - aside from noting that old white men from one country are pretty similar to old white men from another country. The only desenting voice being an uppity woman! The OO's rationale for existing in the Irish Republic is not clear from that article or the speech. What is the purpose of the OO in the south of Ireland? Is protestantism (and specifically not unionism) under threat in the Republic? If so, is the OO with all its baggage the best organisation to speak for all Protestants in the Republic - or would say, I dunno, a parliament and a set of equality laws be able to protect them from discrimination?

    What was forward-looking in his address? The commentary in that article is very light on criticism - it implies that others have historically criticised the order but makes no judgement on the correctness of those criticisms. Has the OO moved on in any way? Is it still an organisation that excludes people on the basis of gender or sexuality? What examples can you point to that show movement in terms of the OO's practises? What have the OO changed in the last 20 (never mind 100) years - honestly don't know myself.


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    #53
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    Interesting, not the policy in Munster.

    By who's authority is this policy enforced? It's not the govt.


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    #54
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    I wouldn't like to see an orange march in our capital city. I see the OO as a racist anti-Irish anti-catholic bigoted organisation. Aside from that they are far too fond of marching. One Dublin Parade would soon turn into 20 and the people of Dublin really could do without that sort of disruption.

    The OO seem to particularly enjoy marching into areas that are contentious and with a whiff of trouble in the air. They then rely on the forces of the state to keep then safe no matter how much it costs. We need our police for more important things.


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    #55
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    poeticseraphim wrote: »
    By who's authority is this policy enforced? It's not the govt.

    I don't have any names. The republican ideals that were originally fought for were never represented after Dev got to power. The Irish National school system was supposed to be non sectarian and inclusive.


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    #56
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    Please be aware that it was compulsory to bring up children of mixed marriages as Catholic in the Republic until relatively recently. That is not a valid position.

    In fairness that was a Church policy, don't know if it still exists.

    Wasn't there an Orange Order move to expel the UUP leader for attending the funeral of Ronan Kerr, the PSNI officer?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #57
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    K-9 wrote: »
    In fairness that was a Church policy, don't know if it still exists.

    Wasn't there an Orange Order move to expel the UUP leader for attending the funeral of Ronan Kerr, the PSNI officer?

    Church policy, Orange order policy, what's the difference really?


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    #58
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    K-9 wrote: »
    In fairness that was a Church policy, don't know if it still exists.

    Wasn't there an Orange Order move to expel the UUP leader for attending the funeral of Ronan Kerr, the PSNI officer?

    No, not a move to expel. Just an inquiry.


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    #59
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    woodoo wrote: »
    I wouldn't like to see an orange march in our capital city. I see the OO as a racist anti-Irish anti-catholic bigoted organisation. Aside from that they are far too fond of marching. One Dublin Parade would soon turn into 20 and the people of Dublin really could do without that sort of disruption.

    The OO seem to particularly enjoy marching into areas that are contentious and with a whiff of trouble in the air. They then rely on the forces of the state to keep then safe no matter how much it costs. We need our police for more important things.

    Racist? There are black members and Ghana exclusively black lodges, are they anti Irish, anti catholic bigots?


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    #60
    getzls
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    the cost of cleaning up should have our government refuse this riot provoking march

    Who do you think would riot? Not the Orange Lodge members. Riot provoking eh? Would this be similar to a man hitting a woman then saying she made me do it?


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    #61
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    Church policy, Orange order policy, what's the difference really?

    Both are wrong, one seems more recent and was looking to punish a member for attending a Catholic funeral. I've a problem with sectarian policies. I'd have the same problem with the Freemasons looking to march!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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