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A dublin orange parade?

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  • 05-07-2012 5:20pm
    #1
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭


    A leading orange man recently spoke in your dail about improving relations with not only the wider unionist community but also residents of your own country that counted themselves as part of the orange community, his suggestion was allowing the local Dublin and Wicklow orange lodge being allowed to parade in thier capital city Dublin without fear of intimidation and violence which thus far as prevented them parading.
    AN historic first speech to Dublin’s Parliament by a senior Orange Order figure yesterday ended with Fianna Fail saying that it was open to an Orange Order parade through Dublin at some point.

    Orange Grand Secretary Drew Nelson told the Seanad that Orangemen in the Republic would love to parade in their capital city, although he said that the institution recognised the “challenges” that may pose.

    The Fianna Fail leader in the Seanad, Darragh O’Brien, said that he would like to see a day when there could be an Orange Order parade in Dublin “in a non-triumphalist way”.

    Mr Nelson, who also accused republicans of “demonising” the Order and said that he wanted to see it work closer with the Irish government, received warm applause after his speech.

    Mr Nelson said that Mary McAleese and her husband Martin had made yesterday possible by “opening up lines of communications” with the Order by inviting them to Aras an Uachtarain during her time as president.

    The British Ambassador to Dublin, Dominick Chilcott, and the US Ambassador, Dan Rooney, watched on from the public gallery yesterday.

    After the speech, the Orange delegation had a half-hour meeting with Taoiseach Enda Kenny.

    Source

    I have quite frequently said on this site that one way republicans have of showing unionists that our culture will be respected if a united Ireland was ever to come about , is to show those that share my culture and luve within the Irish republic that they are respected and equals within thier own country. I have spokern directly to the Dublin and Wicklow orange lodge and while they have in the past been granted permission to parade in Dublin they felt unable to go ahead with a parade because republicans have threatened counter demonstrations and the lodge has not wanted to be the focal point for the possibility of violence that may come from these counter demonstrations


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    #2
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    My grandmother often told of going to Donegal to watch the parades in her youth, it should happen here but I'm afraid the motives of the current 'defenders' are still suspect.


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    #3
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    there bigots that will try to incite a riot like the last time,and the expense to the exchequer cleaning up in the riot aftermath is not on,especially as were in a recession and in debt to the eu..


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    #4
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    My grandmother often told of going to Donegal to watch the parades in her youth, it should happen here but I'm afraid the motives of the current 'defenders' are still suspect.

    The motive of the Dublin and wicklow lodge was / is only to celebrate thier culture


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    #5
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users Posts: 10,571 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    I hope it goes ahead, and hope that it's not hijacked for an agenda by muppets of any stripe.


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    #6
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    junder wrote: »
    The motive of the Dublin and wicklow lodge was / is only to celebrate thier culture
    That may be the case relating to the honourable but for the effigy burners it still may take some time.


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    #7
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    The motive of the Dublin and wicklow lodge was / is only to celebrate thier culture
    That may be the case relating to the honourable but for the effigy burners it still may take some time.

    Effigy burners?


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    #8
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    junder wrote: »
    Effigy burners?

    Oh come on, I've experienced enough 12th's to know that you can't be ignorant of that association.


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    #9
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    junder wrote: »
    I have quite frequently said on this site that one way republicans have of showing unionists that our culture will be respected if a united Ireland was ever to come about

    I'd be happy for Unionists to come down and have a general parade for unionists in the spirit of friendship, but can you please stop equating the Orange Order to Unionist culture. It's not Unionist culture. In fact, the majority of Unionists want nothing to do with it. It's a sectarian organisation, built on foundations of bigotry.

    I'm not one to oppose freedom of speech and freedom of expression, but the Orange Order has been the leading organisation in riling up unfounded hatred towards the greater Irish population for decades, and now they want to march in Dublin?

    Let Unionists have a parade, but an inclusive parade which includes all aspects of the Unionist community, and not a narrow-minded group of bigots. Unionists are much better than that shower.


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    #10
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Effigy burners?

    Oh come on, I've experienced enough 12th's to know that you can't be ignorant of that association.

    Proberly been to more 12ths the you but I have never seen any effigys burnt.


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    #11
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    dlofnep wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    I have quite frequently said on this site that one way republicans have of showing unionists that our culture will be respected if a united Ireland was ever to come about

    I'd be happy for Unionists to come down and have a general parade for unionists in the spirit of friendship, but can you please stop equating the Orange Order to Unionist culture. It's not Unionist culture. In fact, the majority of Unionists want nothing to do with it. It's a sectarian organisation, built on foundations of bigotry.

    I'm not one to oppose freedom of speech and freedom of expression, but the Orange Order has been the leading organisation in riling up unfounded hatred towards the greater Irish population for decades, and now they want to march in Dublin?

    Let Unionists have a parade, but an inclusive parade which includes all aspects of the Unionist community, and not a narrow-minded group of bigots. Unionists are much better than that shower.

    And you speak for the majorty of unionists?


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    #12
    ANXIOUS
    Registered Users Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    If it goes ahead I hope it is better planned than last time.


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    #13
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    junder wrote: »
    Proberly been to more 12ths the you but I have never seen any effigys burnt.

    Specsavers.


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    #14
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    chalkitdown wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Proberly been to more 12ths the you but I have never seen any effigys burnt.

    Specsavers.

    And what has specsavers got to do with this thread


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    #15
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    junder wrote: »
    And you speak for the majorty of unionists?

    Nope - but the Orange Order certainly doesn't speak for the majority of Unionists. Its membership is in decline, and it's irrelevant to unionism.


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    #16
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    ANXIOUS wrote: »
    If it goes ahead I hope it is better planned than last time.

    The love ulster parade was not an orange parade


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    #17
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    junder wrote: »
    And what has specsavers got to do with this thread

    Only my warped sense of humour probably. It will be very hard for Southern Unionists to disassociate themselves from the hatred that the Northern loyal orders allow to mar their parades.


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    #18
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Respecting the Unionist tradition is one thing. Respecting an organisation where - up until 2002 - members could be expelled for marrying or cohabiting with a Catholic, or even attending a Catholic wedding, funeral or baptism... that's another.


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    #19
    doopa
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭doopa


    Where do they want to march? - down the centre of Dublin or through the more affluent southern suburbs where no-one would care and I'd imagine a lot of people would be more sympathetic.

    Just out of idle curiousity what is the age demographic of the Dublin/Wicklow lodges?


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    #20
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    who_me wrote: »
    Respecting the Unionist tradition is one thing. Respecting an organisation where - up until 2002 - members could be expelled for marrying or cohabiting with a Catholic, or even attending a Catholic wedding, funeral or baptism... that's another.

    Please be aware that it was compulsory to bring up children of mixed marriages as Catholic in the Republic until relatively recently. That is not a valid position.


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    #21
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,568 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    junder wrote: »
    The motive of the Dublin and wicklow lodge was / is only to celebrate thier culture

    Yis could stop on the way down and have a practice march in Dundalk. A lovely wee town with a big welcome.


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    #22
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    dlofnep wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    And you speak for the majorty of unionists?

    Nope - but the Orange Order certainly doesn't speak for the majority of Unionists. It's membership is in decline, and it's irrelevant to unionism.

    Again, you speak for unionism?


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    #23
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    tayto lover wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    The motive of the Dublin and wicklow lodge was / is only to celebrate thier culture

    Yis could stop on the way down and have a practice march in Dundalk. A lovely wee town with a big welcome.

    Why would the Dublin and Wicklow lodge go up to Dundalk to parade when they are from Dublin?


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    #24
    chalkitdown
    Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭chalkitdown


    junder wrote: »
    Why would the Dublin and Wicklow lodge go up to Dundalk to parade when they are from Dublin?

    Indeed, Cromwell wanted rid of the God believers.


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    #25
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    junder wrote: »
    Why would the Dublin and Wicklow lodge go up to Dundalk to parade when they are from Dublin?

    Would you hold your parade in Wicklow town? Probably much less chance of intimidation or violence there.


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    #26
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    lets face it this orange march is not going to do anything for community relations quite the opposite in fact..


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    #27
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    AltAccount wrote: »
    junder wrote: »
    Why would the Dublin and Wicklow lodge go up to Dundalk to parade when they are from Dublin?

    Would you hold your parade in Wicklow town? Probably much less chance of intimidation or violence there.

    So Irish citizens are not allowed to parade on thier own capital city?


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    #28
    cristoir
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭cristoir


    Any protest/march that is non-violent should be allowed. As I said in the AH thread if you don't like it organise a peaceful counter-march. That's how a grown up democracy should work.


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    #29
    junder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    cristoir wrote: »
    Any protest/march that is non-violent should be allowed. As I said in the AH thread if you don't like it organise a peaceful counter-march. That's how a grown up democracy should work.

    I agree


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    #30
    blahfckingblah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭blahfckingblah


    junder wrote: »
    So Irish citizens are not allowed to parade on thier own capital city?
    well i don't think theres much sense in reinacting 2006, poor charlie bird would be horrified at the thought


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    #31
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,568 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    junder wrote: »
    Why would the Dublin and Wicklow lodge go up to Dundalk to parade when they are from Dublin?

    Oh i'm sure some of the religious brethern from the North would only be too eager to attend.


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