MOTO GP 2012

Grim. · 09-04-2012 2:22am

not something i was expecting to make it past Ducati PR

'I cannot ride this Ducati' declares Valentino Rossi after Qatar MotoGP struggle

A downbeat Valentino Rossi conceded that at present he simply cannot get to grips with the 2012 Ducati after struggling to 10th place in the Qatar Grand Prix.

The seven-time MotoGP champion was a long way off the pace throughout the Losail weekend, and could not match team-mate Nicky Hayden's pace.

While Rossi said an earlier clash with Hector Barbera was a factor in his Qatar result, he admitted that the biggest problem was that the bike did not suit him at all.

"I had big problems at the beginning of the race: when we are on new tyres I struggle under braking," he told Italian broadcaster Mediaset. "On top of that, I lost four or five seconds after coming together with Barbera. I then managed to improve a bit and on the last lap I even managed to set my quickest lap on worn tyres. But it's useless, we struggle to be competitive.

"I can't ride this bike, I can't make the difference, I can't even keep up with Hayden's pace, who I used to go quick against in comparison. In theory, with new tyres I should go quicker. Nicky managed to do a good race with the other works Ducati, but he still ended up only sixth."

Rossi fears that 2012 could end up being even harder than last year, when he took just one podium finish.

"In Jerez testing it went better, sixth with the quicker tyres," he said. "But that's our pace, it's not an attractive objective to be fighting for sixth place. We are used to better objectives.

"Probably we are going worse than last year because we managed to be seventh back then... What can I say? I want to be frank. I can't ride this bike well, even in comparison with my fellow Ducati riders.

"This Ducati has problems: I gave indications over where to intervene, but we didn't solve our problems. Unfortunately I'm no engineer and can't do anything about it. At least the positive aspect is that I don't crash with this chassis. That's something at least."

The Italian added that he was finding it hard to be optimistic as Ducati had failed to progress from a disappointing start in 2011.

"We ran out of hope last year. More than hope we need a better bike," Rossi said. "But I wouldn't want to expose myself like I did last year, by thinking and hoping that the second chassis development would be an improvement.

"I tried to be a professional. When Barbera pushed me out I even considered returning to the pits, but then I stayed out in order to give our technicians some data to study so as to improve things."

from Autosport.com

Similar article up on Gpone.com

Rossi: this isn't the Ducati I wanted

A year has passed since Valentino Rossi saw the red lights go out for the first time from behind the windscreen of a Ducati. It was his debut on a bike that he never really loved, so much so that he later declared, "I understood during the first test, after just a few laps, the I couldn't win the first race." Indeed, last season at Qatar he finished 7th, with a gap of 16”431 to Stoner, for whom he took over at Ducati. It seemed like an eternity, but things would only get worse as the season wore on, eventually convincing the boys at Ducati to completely revolutionize their MotoGP project. Tonight, using the umpteenth chassis variation, the race went even worse: 10th place and 33”665 behind the winner, this time Lorenzo, last of the Ducati riders and second to last of the MotoGP prototypes.
Afterwards the Doctor was clearly dejected and, what's worse, he seems to have lost faith: "We ran out of hope last season. When Barbera passed me, with a hard move that pushed me into the runoff area, he had only one objective: getting in front of me. The actually race position didn't matter. I even thought about pulling into the pits and finishing my race there, but I kept going only out of respect for my team members, and to collect useful data." The GP12 isn't to his liking, as was the case with the 11 and 11.1, and for the first time he even distanced himself from its design. "Ducati didn't follow the direction that I indicated, but I'm not an engineer and I can't solve every problem."
That both Barbera and Hayden were faster is of little interest to him. "It wouldn't have changed much to finish sixth. This certainly isn't an appealing result for me, and I'm aiming at least for the podium." Something which seems well out of reach for the moment. "I'm not able to ride the bike as I like. I'm faster on used tires than on new. The rear is pushing a lot, and things only improve slightly when the tires start to slide. I have no confidence, and I can't even get ahead of Hayden, who gave everything he had to finish 28 seconds behind the leader."
And with this, the polite, professional courtesy between the Italian rider and Italian marque has come to an end. "The problems with the bike haven't changed, and neither have my requests. It's unrideable, and it doesn't make much difference what track we are on. I'm not able to enter the corners hard on the brakes, and we can't hope the situation will change completely with the new Bridgestone tires. These aren't problems you can solve with setup alone." Either the rider adapts to the bike, or the bike is again adapted to the rider. Ducati are at a crossroads.

B bopp · 09-04-2012 10:06am

A bit of honesty from Rossi....it is also him too he can't adapt his style to ride the Ducati . But there is a fundamental flaw in that Ducati when only 1 rider in 4 years could make it work

Please Kill Me · 09-04-2012 1:20pm

B bopp wrote: »

A bit of honesty from Rossi....it is also him too he can't adapt his style to ride the Ducati . But there is a fundamental flaw in that Ducati when only 1 rider in 4 years could make it work

Stoner did what he did on the Duke because it suits his riding style. Jesus, Ducati told Melandri there was nothing wrong with the bike and that he should see a shrink!!! I don't know, I think Rossi should look for another ride for next year before it's too late!

frostie500 · 09-04-2012 2:20pm

Its starting to get very worrying for Valentino, here's something I wrote earlier about it:

All the teams are at the start of their development cycle but one cycle is showing dangerous signs of breaking. After the race Valentino Rossi angrily talked of how he “can’t ride the new Ducati” and the Italian superstar also said “This Ducati has problems: I gave indications over where to intervene, but we didn’t solve our problems.”

His comments indicate that Ducati have not listened to his complaints and solved the problems as he wanted. With Nicky Hayden and Hector Barbera both finishing in the top eight it was clear that the bike was more competitive than Rossi was able to ride it. As unbelievable as it seems aboard the Ducati the 105 times Grand Prix is an ordinary rider. Just as we saw numerous riders before him Rossi cannot get his head around how to ride the Bologna machine.

With Rossi clearly getting more and more disillusioned it is heartbreaking to see the greatest rider of his generation, and I would say any generation, effectively just making up the numbers. After the race a disillusioned Rossi commented that even catching Hayden is looking impossible to him.

After a career spanning seven different types of bikes and nine championships Rossi now faces the biggest question of his career; is it worth the aggravation to continue?

He is a proud man and will want to finish what he started with Ducati. At the time of his announcement as rider it seemed like a match made in heaven. Italian racing royalty coming together but the hype has never been matched with on track performance.

A solitary podium finish last year, gifted after Pedrosa and Marco Simoncelli crashed in Le Mans, is the lone highlight of their relationship andQatarshowed that the change to the 1000s will make little difference.

Even accounting for the clash with Barbera, which Rossi said cost him the chance of fighting for fifth, you would have to ask the question of whether it is worth continuing past the end of their agreement if all Rossi can do is battle for sixth position, at best.

At the end of the season Rossi will have to ask himself whether it is spending more time with Ducati is best for him….or whether it would be wiser to call time on his glittering career.

We've all spent the last year as fans of his talking about it being the bike, Rossi needs time etc. it might be time for us to face a much more realistic fact...Valentino will never be the rider he was before. Whether it is the remnants of his shoulder injury or simply time catching up on him I cant help but think that we're getting to the end of the road.

frostie500 · 09-04-2012 2:45pm

Overall I have to say I was very impressed by the opening weekend of the year. I missed most of the practice and quali sessions because of being away in Africa (they covered Friday but not Thursday and I was flying to Doha on Saturday) but it seemed that the weekend was a great success.

We had three great races with Moto3 seeing a lot of surprises. I think Fenati was unreal. I expected him to be quick this year but not straight out of the box like that. It was a very mature race from him and showed that the new class will give young rookies a great chance to shine now that you dont need a factory Aprilia to win in the class.

THe lack of previous data and parity of machinery also allowed other rookies to shine with Sissis and Rins looking very impressive as well. It also gave some riders such as Louis Rossi and Zulfhami Khraddin (however its spelt!) the opportunity to race in the lead group. Both were little more than solid 125 riders but showed that in Moto3 they might be able to be much more than that.

It reminded me of Moto2s first year when Tomizawa won the opening race and a mediocre 250 racer showed that he was held back in the past by poor machinery. coincidently there is a plaque in the main buildings for Showa comemerating his Moto2 victory in Losail

The new class will allow all riders the chance to show their ability but Qatar showed that Vinales is still the top dog. I was, like everyone, very impressed by his speed and maturity last year but now he has a lot of expectation on his shoulders and he is dealing with it very well.

I think that Vale was the last time that we saw a second year rider really expected to win the title and dominate the class in the way that Vinales is expected to now. He looked very poised and wasnt flustered by Fenati leading the race and eventually pulled clear at the front.

Still though I think Fenati was the star of the day for me and I think it showed that the Italian Federation team should be really competitive this year with him and Tonucci who I also think will spring some surprises this year.

Moto2 was fantastic, as ever, but this race will have knocked the stuffing out of Thomas Luthi. Regardless of the last lap incident with Marquez, and I dont think Marc did anything wrong, this was a weekend that Luthi dominated and yet he couldnt pull the trigger.

Given that Marc only had one or two days testing and arrived in Qatar looking like a rider that was going to build slowly in the opening races it must have been very galling for Luthi to lose this race.

I was standing at the last corner for the last half dozen laps and Marquez was so committed on the final lap. There was no doubt he was going to go past Iannone but his corner speed was immense he picked up the throttle much earlier that lap, it seemed by a couple of metres, and it catapulted him past Iannone. Really brave stuff from Marc.

In the big class it looks like we'll have a great year. With Stoner hampered by arm pump we had a really close race but I think for most of the race he was able to deal with it really well. If you look at the fact that he only opened a two second lead and Lorenzo's qualifying pace it really looks like we'll have a close year between the leading three.

They're without doubt the best three riders on the planet right now and the difference between them and the competition is really big right now. They've got their bikes working really well already, even if the Honda riders will complain about chatter!

Behind them I was amazed by Cal Crutchlow. Last year I thought he had the hallmarks of the typical Superbike rider, eg James Toseland etc, who can come in and set decent times but never do anything more than be a solid runner....Qatar proved me wrong!

Last year Cal was very impressive at the start of the year but once he broke his collarbone he fell way off the pace and never looked competive again by and large. In the paddock at Silverstone he bounced around and was visibly confident about his prospects by the next race I went to, Valencia, he was inward and looked lost.

In Qatar he was back to being confident and joking with people in the paddock. Ive been harsh on Cal in the past but this weekend he showed a lot of maturity and rode a really great race. TO beat Dovi is no mean achievement but it was the manner with which Crutchlow did it that impressed me.

He was thoughtful and minded his tyres. Ive said time and again that I dont rate Superbike riders because they always seem to race at one speed-flat out. Look at Leon Haslam. Very fast rider but Ive never thought of his as being intellegent. He rides to the limit at all times.

In Qatar it seemed that Cal was constantly at 99% of the limit. He was always giving his tyres that bit of consideration that the best riders do. He wanted them to last the race so he didnt push them to their limit. He caressed the limit without crossing it and he was rewarded with a great start to the year.

Behind the Tech 3 the battle for sixth was great and Bradl looks to have adapted well to the big class. Hayden showed a lot of poise as he moved through the pack to claim sixth, again he was similar to the leading riders and made sure he had some tyre life in hand at the end.

Good weekend for Nicky to outpace Vale throughout and finish as the leading Ducati runner.

All in all it was a great race day, cant wait for Jerez now!

frostie500 · 09-04-2012 3:51pm

Thought Id post a couple of photos from the weekend:
This was one that I really wanted to get, I always love shots where you see the exhaust flame! Defintely gonna be printed off for the album!

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It always amazes me how much riders can focus on outside influences when they're riding. I supposes its the same as us driving a car and looking out the window to an extent. You get used to the speed and forces on your body and you can notice things happening off track. In this shot Randy de Puniet looks across at the photographer beside me who used a flash and obviously distracted Randy

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I always like watching Maverick Vinales on track. Nothing seem to fluster him even when he's on the limit. Just out of shot is Fenati.

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It's pretty strange to see an Aspar bike struggling but Moncayo had his hands filled with Alex Rins for much of the race:

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The Red Bull KTM livery looks really good this year and Cortese should be strong. This shot is of Sissis holding off Louis Rossi

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Good to see JB has learned something in his time with Ducati....his hand gestures are much improved!

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I though Fernandez looked like a little dog with big paws for most of the action on Friday. He always looked right on the edge of crashing but in the race he was much more consistent and looked pretty good.

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Start of the race

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I remember someone posted about how they love to see the brake discs glowing in Qatar

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B bopp · 09-04-2012 6:16pm

Truly excellent commentary and thoughts frostie... Really agree with a lot of your points. Scary as it seems you could be right about Rossi. The leg, the bike and simo last year I think is taking their toll on him... Could be close to the end of the road... The photos are exceptional...

frostie500 · 09-04-2012 6:34pm

B bopp wrote: »

Truly excellent commentary and thoughts frostie... Really agree with a lot of your points. Scary as it seems you could be right about Rossi. The leg, the bike and simo last year I think is taking their toll on him... Could be close to the end of the road... The photos are exceptional...

Appreciate the comments B bopp always nice to read something like that!

It's really hard to believe what we're seeing with Rossi but its hard not to come to the conclusion that he's reaching the end. I truly believe that if he had the bike as he wanted it he would be competitive but after 16 years it gets harder to motivate yourself. We see it in lots of sports and even the very best suffer from it.

Rossi is racing against lads much younger than him who are still looking to leave their mark on the sport. Rossi's place in the history has been untouchable for years but its still saddening to see a legend clearly struggling. On track he still looked to be pushing really hard but it was clear that the bike wasnt as he needed it. Visually he didnt have the same confidence on turn on as the leaders and its got to the point now where its clearly getting him down.

Last year at Silverstone only four reporters showed up to his debrief and he said something along the lines of "so this is what happens when you're sh!t!" He still has his sense of humour but it seems like he is clutching to it as a defence mechanism now and to be honest Im glad that he lost his cool and talked about the problems.

The main reason that I think this could be the end for him though is because he's burnt bridges in the past and I dont think he'd be welcome back at Honda or Yamaha. I also wouldnt read too much into the broken leg. He's fully recovered from that but as we saw with Casey yesterday the new breed of bikes are very physical and there has long been speculation that Rossi's should injury never healed fully. With so much additional force going through the riders-and it pretty much all goes through the shoulder muscles-I wouldnt be surprised if that is playing a part in his problems as well

Please Kill Me · 09-04-2012 10:51pm

Great write up and amazing pictures! You have a new fan!

tinyjiney · 10-04-2012 6:22pm

Please Kill Me wrote: »

Stoner did what he did on the Duke because it suits his riding style. Jesus, Ducati told Melandri there was nothing wrong with the bike and that he should see a shrink!!! I don't know, I think Rossi should look for another ride for next year before it's too late!

what do ya mean before.........:P

Yikert · 10-04-2012 9:05pm

Brialliant start to the season for all classes, the CRT thing may turn out more interesting than expected. Bike overload on the weekend, phew!! Thanks for the photos and commentary. I wonder if Ducati have something up their sleeve in the next three weeks. Does anybody know if Haydens and Rossis bikes are the same or just similar?

Infoanon · 10-04-2012 9:13pm

Yikert wrote: »

Does anybody know if Haydens and Rossis bikes are the same or just similar?

They mentioned on Eurosport that one was a longer wheel base than the other

Grim. · 10-04-2012 9:16pm

Yikert wrote: »

Does anybody know if Haydens and Rossis bikes are the same or just similar?

the exact same spec

interesting that the Ducati's finished within five seconds imo shows that the bike has a maximum pace it can be ridden at and it will not go any faster.

Grim. · 10-04-2012 9:17pm

Infoanon wrote: »

They mentioned on Eurosport that one was a longer wheel base than the other

same bike though just set up differently

Please Kill Me · 10-04-2012 9:54pm

Yikert wrote: »

Does anybody know if Haydens and Rossis bikes are the same or just similar?

Infoanon wrote: »

They mentioned on Eurosport that one was a longer wheel base than the other

Grim. wrote: »

same bike though just set up differently

Hayden's rear axle is a bit further forward than Rossi's, because that suits Hayden's riding style. But other than that, the bikes are the same.

Goose81 · 10-04-2012 10:01pm

Grim. wrote: »

the exact same spec

interesting that the Ducati's finished within five seconds imo shows that the bike has a maximum pace it can be ridden at and it will not go any faster.

The bike is a piece of utter ****e and the engineers seem unwilling to make serious changes. I wonder what sort of contracts are these boys locked into? Rossi should try to leave mid season and win a few races before hes finished, I presume he would have clauses.

h3000 · 10-04-2012 10:09pm

Goose81 wrote: »

The bike is a piece of utter ****e and the engineers seem unwilling to make serious changes. I wonder what sort of contracts are these boys locked into? Rossi should try to leave mid season and win a few races before hes finished, I presume he would have clauses.

Even if he could where could he go?
Yamaha/Tech3 not a chance I'd say. Honda, he might get a customer bike if he is lucky. I really don't think he would go for a CRT bike, although he might do better on one than the Duke :rolleyes:

Goose81 · 10-04-2012 10:29pm

h3000 wrote: »

Even if he could where could he go?
Yamaha/Tech3 not a chance I'd say. Honda, he might get a customer bike if he is lucky. I really don't think he would go for a CRT bike, although he might do better on one than the Duke :rolleyes:

I agree, it would take something nuts like leaving before the third race and a challenging team ditching a rider to accommodate him if it were to happen.

He is worth so much to manufacturers in sponsorship though. Id say Ducati are paying him insane money.

frostie500 · 10-04-2012 10:44pm

Goose81 wrote: »

h3000 wrote: »

Even if he could where could he go? Yamaha/Tech3 not a chance I'd say. Honda, he might get a customer bike if he is lucky. I really don't think he would go for a CRT bike, although he might do better on one than the Duke :rolleyes:

I agree, it would take something nuts like leaving before the third race and a challenging team ditching a rider to accommodate him if it were to happen.
He is worth so much to manufacturers in sponsorship though. Id say Ducati are paying him insane money.

Not a hope in hell if vale leaving. Both parties need to be successful and even though its a nightmare theyre in too deep right now.

There would be no just cause for him to leave and.ride for another so either he can play out the script or have a short season....by a reasonable guess id say valentino has about ,15million reasons to finish the year

h3000 · 10-04-2012 10:55pm

frostie500 wrote: »

Not a hope in hell if vale leaving. Both parties need to be successful and even though its a nightmare theyre in too deep right now.

There would be no just cause for him to leave and.ride for another so either he can play out the script or have a short season....by a reasonable guess id say valentino has about ,15million reasons to finish the year

I'd say the only chance of ever seeing Vale on any other bike in MotoGP other than the Duke would be if Kawasaki or Suzuki return to MotoGP and unfortunately I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

He is racing a Ferrari 458 Italia (Kessel Racing GT car) in Blancpain Endurance Series at Monza next weekend. Should be fun

Yikert · 11-04-2012 2:08pm

Gresini, maybe. CRT, not competitive enough. I had read somewere that Suzuki are testing a bike, Bautista could ride that one quite well so it was going in the right direction. If there is no progress he might leave the sport, maybe try some other motor sport. It must be demoralising for him, you would lose your will to live :-(

gears · 11-04-2012 4:00pm

Infoanon wrote: »

3 great races today made all the better by Toby,Jules and Spalders brilliant commentary.

Very good as always but I think they still miss Randy Mamola

Magown3 · 11-04-2012 4:01pm

Meow!
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/motorbikes/3229005

h3000 · 11-04-2012 4:27pm

Magown3 wrote: »

Meow!
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/motorbikes/3229005

What was the ad? It's gone now.

Please Kill Me · 11-04-2012 4:58pm

h3000 wrote: »

I'd say the only chance of ever seeing Vale on any other bike in MotoGP other than the Duke would be if Kawasaki or Suzuki return to MotoGP and unfortunately I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

I doubt Kawasaki will soon, but Suzuki will be back in 2013 or 2014, and I think Vale should be dropping hints to them NOW!

Magown3 · 11-04-2012 6:32pm

h3000 wrote: »

What was the ad? It's gone now.

Went along the lines of:

2012 Ducati GP bike for sale. Unfinished project. Lots of spare tyres, swingarms etc. Included with sale is 1 chicken suit. Not been used for a good while. If interested, contact J Burgess

Magown3 · 11-04-2012 8:05pm

gears wrote: »

Very good as always but I think they still miss Randy Mamola

Yea I must agree. Randy was great. Why the hell did they EVER get rid of him? Was Spalders brought in to replace him? I can't remember if they were both on Eurosport at the same time or not. I have to give Spalders some serious credit too tho, he knows his stuff and is very interesting to listen to in a very nerdy motorbike kinda way!

What is Randy doing now does anyone know?

frostie500 · 11-04-2012 9:36pm

Magown3 wrote: »

Yea I must agree. Randy was great. Why the hell did they EVER get rid of him? Was Spalders brought in to replace him? I can't remember if they were both on Eurosport at the same time or not. I have to give Spalders some serious credit too tho, he knows his stuff and is very interesting to listen to in a very nerdy motorbike kinda way!

What is Randy doing now does anyone know?

I think Randy left because he wanted to work on other projects. For example now he's managing Brad Smith a couple of other riders.

Infoanon · 11-04-2012 9:40pm

Magown3 wrote: »

What is Randy doing now does anyone know?

Randy does the 2 seater Ducati on race days and has popped up on BBC coverage a few times and as mentioned also manages Bradley Smith

tinyjiney · 13-04-2012 3:57pm

IMO the racing was all the poorer for the loss of Simmo....:(....Hopefully next year some new kids might spark things into life....its looking very samey .........:)

MOTO GP 2012

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