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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #7622
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    we bitch an moan on the radio and to our freinds about the GOV now this is ourtime to say NO,show the GOV that we dont bow to every demand. how much will it be next year while in same estate the same house is owned by council they dont have to pay it, a house is a effing house.


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    #7623
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    porsche boy wrote: »
    I genuinely believe a far fairer way to recoup the monies needed would be a wealth tax. Tax the buggers that really benefited from the good times and have continued to benefit in the recession

    Um, I think a lot of the people that would end up getting taxed in that case would be people who didn't benefit from the boom. Many of those who are finding new wealth were probably fairly frugal with their money and didn't join in on the 'keeping up with the Joneses' mental illness that swept the country. Myself included. I never benefited in any way from the Celtic Tiger. On the contrary, I was poor for the last 12/13 years of my life. Now that things are finally getting better and business is improving, I don't feel it's fair that I be taxed for the excesses of others.

    Perhaps a better suggestion might be to go after the wealth of those that caused the economic collapse in a CAB like fashion and use that money instead. If there's any left.


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    #7624
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Don't know as I didn't get one myself.
    They don't seem to know where I live :D

    Just sounds like guff to me. Has anyone else recieved any leaflets that weren't the standard govt issue ones (which I didn't get either - as it happens)? Who would be sending out such leaflets?


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    #7625
    jluv
    Registered Users Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭jluv


    alastair wrote: »
    Well - maybe the fact that the money goes to the local authorities? What's the benefit in a local authority paying when it just goes straight back to them? Would you feel the need to take a tenner from your salary every month, to give straight back to yourself - minus whatever overheads are involved in the transfer out and back?
    But could they not earmark that money for the "Golden Pot" that is being put aside for purely services? Or their money could get used for whatever plan is in place for the money which we are expected to pay. And they could do what people are assuming landlords are going to do.Pass the expense along to the others who will be using the same services as I.
    Once again theres no plan/visibility to how this money will be used. Show me that and maybe I'll show you the money..


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    #7626
    The_Thing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    In my opinion running the risk of incurring a €2,500 fine is well worth it for in the long run the blue-shirts intend to milk us for a lot more.


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    #7627
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,571 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    porsche boy wrote: »
    I havent read the whole thread (507 pages) but I have come across a couple of people commenting that they are paying it because they dont want a huge fine.
    The maximum penalty for non payment at the end of the year will be €45, that's a total of €145 owing by 31st December. The €2500 fine that is being chucked around is the maximum fine that a Judge can impose.

    Look at it like this: if you pay then you pay, that's it. If you don't pay, make a stand with the majority of the country then we might be able to stop this unfair tax and if by the end of the year if no progress has been made you can pay up with the 50% penalty. That is my plan anyway.

    I genuinely believe a far fairer way to recoup the monies needed would be a wealth tax. Tax the buggers that really benefited from the good times and have continued to benefit in the recession

    If anyone requires further information look on nohouseholdtax.org/faq

    If you haven't read the thread you may not be aware of something that CAHWT never mention. All unpaid charges interest and fines remain as a charge on the property to be collected when it is sold or bequeathed. An example of what this means is here for the NPPR which is the same tax model.

    https://www.nppr.ie/Faq.aspx#fk41


    These people who should have paid €600 now owe €1780 rising by €60 a month.


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    #7628
    Mezcita
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Mezcita


    porsche boy wrote: »
    I havent read the whole thread (507 pages) but I have come across a couple of people commenting that they are paying it because they dont want a huge fine.
    The maximum penalty for non payment at the end of the year will be €45, that's a total of €145 owing by 31st December. The €2500 fine that is being chucked around is the maximum fine that a Judge can impose.

    Look at it like this: if you pay then you pay, that's it. If you don't pay, make a stand with the majority of the country then we might be able to stop this unfair tax and if by the end of the year if no progress has been made you can pay up with the 50% penalty. That is my plan anyway.

    I genuinely believe a far fairer way to recoup the monies needed would be a wealth tax. Tax the buggers that really benefited from the good times and have continued to benefit in the recession

    If anyone requires further information look on nohouseholdtax.org/faq

    The government says that household taxes are “the norm” in Europe. Yet, they are al- ready taking additional tax direct from your wages through the Universal Social Charge. And at 23%, we have one of the highest VAT rates in Europe. - www.nohouseholdtax.org/

    Don't think so:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77697334&postcount=4

    From here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056582936


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    #7629
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    If the government haven't even sent out leaflets, what's to stop people saying they didn't even know about the charge? Not everyone reads the paper or watches the news.


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    #7630
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    If the government haven't even sent out leaflets, what's to stop people saying they didn't even know about the charge? Not everyone reads the paper or watches the news.
    Saying it to who?


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    #7631
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,557 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    black francis wrote: »
    The amount of bs on this thread regarding local services.

    Govt should have just said that the tax was an attempt to cover the Budget deficit.

    Not only is it closer to the truth, it would have removed the self- righteous attempts to avoid paying your taxes, by people whinging about the state of their roads, or how they already pay for their rubbish collection.

    Maybe if they had just came out and told the truth that it's for the bondholders and banking debt and nothing to do with services at all. That they had given the money which is always used for services to the bondholders or bankers and have to replace it with a new charge.
    Truth is always better than lies.


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    #7632
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    jluv wrote: »
    Once again theres no plan/visibility to how this money will be used. Show me that and maybe I'll show you the money..

    Absolute rubbish. The money just forms a (small) percentage of the operating costs of the local authorities. It's spent in exactly the same manner as the rest of the revenues the local authorities recieve from central govt and commercial rates. Your local authority provides pretty open and accessible accounts for where they spend the money - feel free to investigate to your heart's content.


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    #7633
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    dvpower wrote: »
    Saying it to who?

    Well if someone receives a court summons or notification of a penalty, what's to stop them going to court and pleading ignorance?


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    #7634
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,571 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Um, I think a lot of the people that would end up getting taxed in that case would be people who didn't benefit from the boom. Many of those who are finding new wealth were probably fairly frugal with their money and didn't join in on the 'keeping up with the Joneses' mental illness that swept the country. Myself included. I never benefited in any way from the Celtic Tiger. On the contrary, I was poor for the last 12/13 years of my life. Now that things are finally getting better and business is improving, I don't feel it's fair that I be taxed for the excesses of others.

    Perhaps a better suggestion might be to go after the wealth of those that caused the economic collapse in a CAB like fashion and use that money instead. If there's any left.

    Well I don't know if any of the characters who had to stump up €128 million in taxes fines and interest the last quarter of 2011 (and this is happening every quarter) caused the economic collapse. Perhaps the nephew of Albert Reynolds is the closest you could get.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0314/1224313270436.html


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    #7635
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    If the government haven't even sent out leaflets, what's to stop people saying they didn't even know about the charge? Not everyone reads the paper or watches the news.

    They can say that. But a demand will arrive one day regardless, and it's citizen's responsibility to make themselves aware of the laws of the land - no legal onus on the govt to leaflet them about it. It'll mean nothing in court. Ignorance of the law isn't a defence.


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    #7636
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    If the government haven't even sent out leaflets, what's to stop people saying they didn't even know about the charge? Not everyone reads the paper or watches the news.


    its a shambles the web site wasnt even secure at start, now you can pay at post office but not in cash you have to fill out a form an pay for P & P it makes me laugh


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    #7637
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Well if someone receives a court summons or notification of a penalty, what's to stop them going to court and pleading ignorance?
    Won't the summons* tell them about the household charge?

    * In reality, there will be warnings sent before any summons, so anyone actually going to court still pleading ignorance deserves all they get.


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    #7638
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    Nobody is trying to scare old people. Implying that there is a deliberate policy to scare old people is contemptuous.

    I never said it was deliberate - please show where I stated that!
    We will be kept waiting!

    By their actions of "Final demands" thru letter boxes and now announcing council workers are being sent out on top of this, days later - the fact is they ARE scaring old people alone!

    If you can't see that, you need glasses.


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    #7639
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    [QUOTE=porsche boy;77776810The maximum penalty for non payment at the end of the year will be €45, that's a total of €145 owing by 31st December. The €2500 fine that is being chucked around is the maximum fine that a Judge can impose.

    Look at it like this: if you pay then you pay, that's it. If you don't pay, make a stand with the majority of the country then we might be able to stop this unfair tax and if by the end of the year no progress has been made you can pay up with the 50% penalty. That is my plan anyway.

    I genuinely believe a far fairer way to recoup the monies needed would be a wealth tax. Tax the buggers that really benefited from the good times and have continued to benefit in the recession

    If anyone requires further information look on nohouseholdtax.org/faq[/QUOTE]

    See video (out of sync slighty but you hear the undisputed words):

    Fines...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aqGJbufpc4


    On the web: http://youtu.be/7aqGJbufpc4


    Mortgage...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgSsZ7ADPrA


    web: http://youtu.be/bgSsZ7ADPrA

    The pubic is ALREADY paying a household tax!
    On average of a €300,000 home, ye are coughing up on average €1500 a year!
    So your paying TWICE now for the same four walls and roof!
    Most people don't realise this!!!

    The full debate thats clipped above is available in my earlier post here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77761834&postcount=7386

    The FG and Labour schysters can spin all they can try BUT THIS IS FACT!


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    #7640
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,571 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Biggins wrote: »
    I never said it was deliberate - please show where I stated that!
    We will be kept waiting!

    By their actions of "Final demands" thru letter boxes and now announcing council workers are being sent out on top of this, days later - the fact is they ARE scaring old people alone!

    If you can't see that, you need glasses.

    If everyone paid for everything on time we would not need TV licence inspectors or Revenue auditors calling on people either.


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    #7641
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    dvpower wrote: »
    Won't the summons* tell them about the household charge?

    * In reality, there will be warnings sent before any summons, so anyone actually going to court still pleading ignorance deserves all they get.

    Can't really see anyone getting 'what they deserve' to be honest. If over a million home owners are threatened by this government, the only people who'll get what they deserve are the government in the form of a massive public backlash. We'll wait and see what happens.


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    #7642
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    If everyone paid for everything on time we would not need TV licence inspectors or Revenue auditors calling on people either.

    So you have decided to move off the topic we were debating and have changed it to another rather than answer the point I made?


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    #7643
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    I never said it was deliberate - please show where I stated that!

    I said that you implied it, not stated it. Here:
    Biggins wrote: »
    Please tell that to the next FG and Labour member you meet then please - if alone, they would stop trying to scare them!
    Here you clearly imply that FG and LAB members are trying to scare old people. If they are trying to scare someone, it must be deliberate, no?

    Do you accept now that no one is deliberately trying to scare anyone?


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    #7644
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    The amount of bs on this thread regarding local services.

    Govt should have just said that the tax was an attempt to cover the Budget deficit.

    Not only is it closer to the truth, it would have removed the self- righteous attempts to avoid paying your taxes, by people whinging about the state of their roads, or how they already pay for their rubbish collection.

    Ok Francis, let's try keeping it civil from here on in. Folk are only giving out because it's true.
    How many times can I repeat that it is wrong for any proposed property tax in the future that will prob be way in excess of €100, wrong so long as were still expected to pay for all the services we currently pay for.
    Couple that with high vat, USC, tolled roads, astronomical motor taxes, health care, emergency services call out charge, etc etc etc......
    Some people are finding it hard enough to put a pot of tea, loaf of bread and some jam on the table. We simply can't pay double for somethings!
    Mezcita wrote: »
    Don't think so:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77697334&postcount=4

    From here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056582936

    Above charges only applicable if household charge succeeds (with five days to go, looking very very doubtful)
    And even if it is successful, these charges tacked on to your property will sure to be abolished once FG/Labour are devoid of power, (next general election)

    Stand firm, stand united.

    Don't register, don't pay.


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    #7645
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dvpower wrote: »
    I said that you implied it, not stated it. Here:

    Here you clearly imply that FG and LAB members are trying to scare old people. If they are trying to scare someone, it must be deliberate, no?

    Do you accept now that no one is deliberately trying to scare anyone?
    They are scaring old people by accident - by their thug actions!

    I personally suspect they are really trying to scare everyone -else whats the point of their last few days of rushed efforts, besides intimidating people to cough up - if thats not scary by action alone?


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    #7646
    jluv
    Registered Users Posts: 3,718 ✭✭✭jluv


    alastair wrote: »
    Absolute rubbish. The money just forms a (small) percentage of the operating costs of the local authorities. It's spent in exactly the same manner as the rest of the revenues the local authorities recieve from central govt and commercial rates. Your local authority provides pretty open and accessible accounts for where they spend the money - feel free to investigate to your heart's content.
    I guess I have more of a business head then yours. As stated before I paid over €10000 for services when I built my house.I then had to pay to get connected to water and sewage which is used by everyone in the area whether they have contributed money or not.There are no street lights,footpaths or such even though there are plenty of houses built in the last 10 years from which a lot of money was collected. Fair enough I hear you say. We still only have access to the same basic facilities that were always there whether they collected that money or not.In the wider community the only thing different is a 2 mile long footpath that was put in on a main road which had NO housing and that noone walks on??


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    #7647
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    If everyone paid for everything on time we would not need TV licence inspectors or Revenue auditors calling on people either.

    So if we do what we're told by our governmental overlords, we'll be okay then? Well that's reassuring. Personally though, I'd rather that the government work for me instead and listened to the majority opinion of the citizens of Ireland. That's what we're paying them to do.

    It's about time that the people of this country grew some balls and lashed back at this tax with as much aggression and dissent as is necessary to bring this government to heal and do what they're told rather than trying to tell us, those who put them in power and pay for their entitled existences, to fork out more money to compensate for their gross ineptitude.


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    #7648
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,571 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Ok Francis, let's try keeping it civil from here on in. Folk are only giving out because it's true.
    How many times can I repeat that it is wrong for any proposed property tax in the future that will prob be way in excess of €100, wrong so long as were still expected to pay for all the services we currently pay for.
    Couple that with high vat, USC, tolled roads, astronomical motor taxes, health care, emergency services call out charge, etc etc etc......
    Some people are finding it hard enough to put a pot of tea, loaf of bread and some jam on the table. We simply can't pay double for somethings!



    Above charges only applicable if household charge succeeds (with five days to go, looking very very doubtful)
    And even if it is successful, these charges tacked on to your property will sure to be abolished once FG/Labour are devoid of power, (next general election)

    Stand firm, stand united.

    Don't register, don't pay.

    Has the result of the next election been decided already?


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    #7649
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    So if we do what we're told by our governmental overlords, we'll be okay then? Well that's reassuring. Personally though, I'd rather that the government work for me instead and listened to the majority opinion of the citizens of Ireland. That's what we're paying them to do.

    It's about time that the people of this country grew some balls and lashed back at this tax with as much aggression and dissent as is necessary to bring this government to heal and do what they're told rather than trying to tell us, those who put them in power and pay for their entitled existences, to fork out more money to compensate for their gross ineptitude.

    So. Many. Contradictions.

    I don't even no where to begin.


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    #7650
    The_Thing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    There's plenty of housing estates where the council workers will simply refuse to visit for reasons of personal safety.


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    #7651
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    They are scaring old people by accident - by their thug actions!
    So they're scaring people, but not deliberately.
    Biggins wrote: »
    I personally suspect they are really trying to scare everyone -else whats the point of their last few days of rushed efforts, besides intimidating people to cough up - if thats not scary by action alone?
    ... and we're back to it being deliberate, with added intimidation now. Is the intimidation deliberate or accidental?


This discussion has been closed.
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