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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #7592
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    My name is URL wrote: »
    A massive amount of plain old text messages are still sent every year, and that number hasn't stopped increasing yet. Over 5.6 billion were sent on Vodafone's network alone last year. Even if it does decrease over time, the charge could be applied to other things in order to follow the numbers.. you could just as easily put a tax on mobile bandwidth usage etc.

    A tax on mobile bandwidth usage would be as moronic as the proposed 'internet tax'. If people are too lazy to find free alternatives to sending SMS's though, I have no problem with a tax on them. In fact, 'lazy' taxes suit me just fine. If I'm one of a small number of people who can avoid the tax while 'lazy' people pay it because they're, well, lazy and/or ignorant... fair play!


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    #7593
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Talking about heroes I met an elderly neighbour the other day on her way back from paying the Tax. She is 88 years old and she was afraid not to pay as someone put a leaflet in her door saying that she could face court and huge fines if she didn't pay on time. The woman is on a walking aid too.
    Nice people our Government ..... real ****ing heroes they are.
    Great!
    So now old people should be exempt from paying for anything.
    Brilliant!


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    #7594
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    lividduck wrote: »
    Great!
    So now old people should be exempt from paying for anything.
    Brilliant!

    It should at least be made as easy as possible for them. Show some respect for the elderly. You never know when you might need some empathy yourself. :rolleyes:


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    #7595
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    It should at least be made as easy as possible for them. Show some respect for the elderly. You never know when you might need some empathy yourself. :rolleyes:


    How would you have made it easier for this old women to pay?


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    #7596
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    How would you have made it easier for this old women to pay?

    Dunno. An Post might be a good start.


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    #7597
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Talking about heroes I met an elderly neighbour the other day on her way back from paying the Tax. She is 88 years old and she was afraid not to pay as someone put a leaflet in her door saying that she could face court and huge fines if she didn't pay on time. The woman is on a walking aid too.
    Nice people our Government ..... real ****ing heroes they are.

    She should have held out for a while longer.
    I heard phil has a fleet of canvas covered droptailed lorries lined up to ferry all the old folks to the "pay" centres.
    Everyone that hops aboard gets a complementary pair of stripey pyjamas emblazoned with a star.


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    #7598
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    How would you have made it easier for this old women to pay?
    They could have had a way to pay it at the post office - this is where many elderly people would typicaly pay this sort of thing.


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    #7599
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Talking about heroes I met an elderly neighbour the other day on her way back from paying the Tax. She is 88 years old and she was afraid not to pay as someone put a leaflet in her door saying that she could face court and huge fines if she didn't pay on time. The woman is on a walking aid too.
    Nice people our Government ..... real ****ing heroes they are.

    Would this mysterious leaflet from 'someone' be the same govt info leaflet that a fair proportion of us got - which doesn't mention the cost of any fines, just that they apply for late payment, and increase the more you delay? Not a sausage in there about courts either.


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    #7600
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dvpower wrote: »
    I think services would be cut, but street lighting would be prioritized.

    Again what services would be cut ?
    The roads around here are like the moon. I pay my own bins. Will pay the water because i will use it. So what does that leave ?
    But like 80% of people I wont pay a Household Tax on my own house.


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    #7601
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Dunno. An Post might be a good start.
    dvpower wrote: »
    They could have had a way to pay it at the post office - this is where many elderly people would typicaly pay this sort of thing.

    Well she can go down to An Post and pay with a postal order and then post that off. Doesn't involve any extra walking or distance.


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    #7602
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    alastair wrote: »
    Cajunontour and Wild Bill?

    Mod

    They have no right of reply here. Please don't flame again.


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    #7603
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    also what annoys me is that some people are living in houses and they dont have to pay it, what is the difference between 2 houses that look the same yet the person with a mortgage or there estate aint finished.


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    #7604
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    A tax on mobile bandwidth usage would be as moronic as the proposed 'internet tax'. If people are too lazy to find free alternatives to sending SMS's though, I have no problem with a tax on them. In fact, 'lazy' taxes suit me just fine. If I'm one of a small number of people who can avoid the tax while 'lazy' people pay it because they're, well, lazy and/or ignorant... fair play!

    Why is the idea of a bandwidth tax moronic? A vaguely defined 'internet tax' which has already been proposed is another example of an ill-thought out flat-rate and regressive one. A charge on bandwidth usage is obviously far more progressive. Those with the means to pay for, and access to high speed broadband would pay more than those on dial-up =p


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    #7605
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    It should at least be made as easy as possible for them. Show some respect for the elderly. You never know when you might need some empathy yourself. :rolleyes:

    They are not some homogeneous group of feeble minded people who don't know what is going on around them. Metaphorically wheeling out the old and using words like bullying and scare tactics has been used on the thread before.

    The rich element among the old were the first to resist any change to their circumstances allowing a couple over 70 to have an income of €1400 per week and still retain their medical card.


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    #7606
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    baldymac wrote: »
    also what annoys me is that some people are living in houses and they dont have to pay it, what is the difference between 2 houses that look the same yet the person with a mortgage or there estate aint finished.

    I'm guessing that the unfinished estates are in a limbo where the local authorities can't provide services to them because the schemes haven't been legally completed. This has been an ongoing problem for at least some residents in unfinished developments.


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    #7607
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Again what services would be cut ?
    I didn't realise you had asked me before. :confused:

    Anyway, I really don't know for sure what services they will prioritise if there is a funding shortfall. You can go on to your local council's website and have a look at the services they provide and try and figure that out for yourself.

    They wont be in a position to cut pay or established staff because thats covered by the CPA. They may cut contract staff, but I couldn't say for sure.


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    #7608
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    I love how people automatically equate old person with "dirt poor, stupid, bewildered fool".

    The best way to respect old people is to treat them like actual human beings, not a group of feeble sacred cattle.


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    #7609
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Well she can go down to An Post and pay with a postal order and then post that off. Doesn't involve any extra walking or distance.
    They could have got An Post staff to do some basic admin like checking of the form and issuing a reciept to make it just a little bit easier and integrated. A little bit of common sence might have made it just a bit easier for people.


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    #7610
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    dvpower wrote: »
    I didn't realise you had asked me before. :confused:

    Anyway, I really don't know for sure what services they will prioritise if there is a funding shortfall. You can go on to your local council's website and have a look at the services they provide and try and figure that out for yourself.

    They wont be in a position to cut pay or established staff because thats covered by the CPA. They may cut contract staff, but I couldn't say for sure.

    Cutbacks in jobs and wages have happened already. I'm sure everyone could find an example for their own locality, this is Co Louth.

    http://www.argus.ie/news/37-jobs-to-go-in-council-cuts-1561709.html


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    #7611
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    ...The best way to respect old people is to treat them like actual human beings, not a group of feeble sacred cattle.

    Please tell that to the next FG and Labour member you meet then please - if alone, they would stop trying to scare them!


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    #7612
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    They are not some homogeneous group of feeble minded people who don't know what is going on around them. Metaphorically wheeling out the old and using words like bullying and scare tactics has been used on the thread before.

    That's what they are. The fact that the government have spent more time in the media threatening people as to what might happen to them if they don't pay rather than informing them of why and how they can pay speaks volumes.
    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The rich element among the old were the first to resist any change to their circumstances allowing a couple over 70 to have an income of €1400 per week and still retain their medical card.

    So do you think that the bloated civil service have more entitlement to these peoples' money than they have themselves? There are a myriad of cutbacks that could be made and taxing "de rich" while we have a barely affordable public sector isn't the way to go about it.

    You want to decrease the deficit? Bring public representatives and TD salaries way, way, way down. Downsize all unnecessary public services and find ways to increase efficiencies in poorly performing ones. Stop stealing form hard working people and run the f**king country properly and cost effectively and then we'll talk about new taxes for private earners.


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    #7613
    baldymac
    Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭baldymac


    alastair wrote: »
    I'm guessing that the unfinished estates are in a limbo where the local authorities can't provide services to them because the schemes haven't been legally completed. This has been an ongoing problem for at least some residents in unfinished developments.

    so why arent they finished and if they are not why dont the developers pay for this and such action ...my houseing estate is lets say 95% finished. 60% people living in them. i look out my front window and see a pile of rubble which should be a green area.....will my 100e be paid to finish my estate i think not, scew the GOV


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    #7614
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    dvpower wrote: »
    They could have got An Post staff to do some basic admin like checking of the form and issuing a reciept to make it just a little bit easier and integrated. A little bit of common sence might have made it just a bit easier for people.

    No doubt that a complete hames was made of the articulation, information provision, and payment processes of this tax. It'd have much wiser to roll out a tiered system from the get-go too.


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    #7615
    porsche boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭porsche boy


    I havent read the whole thread (507 pages) but I have come across a couple of people commenting that they are paying it because they dont want a huge fine.
    The maximum penalty for non payment at the end of the year will be €45, that's a total of €145 owing by 31st December. The €2500 fine that is being chucked around is the maximum fine that a Judge can impose.

    Look at it like this: if you pay then you pay, that's it. If you don't pay, make a stand with the majority of the country then we might be able to stop this unfair tax and if by the end of the year if no progress has been made you can pay up with the 50% penalty. That is my plan anyway.

    I genuinely believe a far fairer way to recoup the monies needed would be a wealth tax. Tax the buggers that really benefited from the good times and have continued to benefit in the recession

    If anyone requires further information look on nohouseholdtax.org/faq

    The government says that household taxes are “the norm” in Europe. Yet, they are al- ready taking additional tax direct from your wages through the Universal Social Charge. And at 23%, we have one of the highest VAT rates in Europe. - www.nohouseholdtax.org/


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    #7616
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    That's what they are. The fact that the government have spent more time in the media threatening people as to what might happen to them if they don't pay rather than informing them of why and how they can pay speaks volumes.

    Anyone that wanted to pay had three months to do so. Whether they were 40 year old or 80 year old is not relevant.


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    #7617
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    baldymac wrote: »
    so why arent they finished and if they are not why dont the developers pay for this and such action ...my houseing estate is lets say 95% finished. 60% people living in them. i look out my front window and see a pile of rubble which should be a green area.....will my 100e be paid to finish my estate i think not, scew the GOV

    Anger issues aside - the listed unfinished developments are in a situation which is a bit worse than leftover rubble. The developers won't pay for completion because they've gone bust, and the local authorities won't carry the can for completion for the obvious reaons.


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    #7618
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    alastair wrote: »
    Would this mysterious leaflet from 'someone' be the same govt info leaflet that a fair proportion of us got - which doesn't mention the cost of any fines, just that they apply for late payment, and increase the more you delay? Not a sausage in there about courts either.

    Don't know as I didn't get one myself.
    They don't seem to know where I live :D


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    #7619
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Biggins wrote: »
    Please tell that to the next FG and Labour member then please - if alone, they would stop trying to scare them!
    Nobody is trying to scare old people. Implying that there is a deliberate policy to scare old people is contemptuous.


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    #7620
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    The amount of bs on this thread regarding local services.

    Govt should have just said that the tax was an attempt to cover the Budget deficit.

    Not only is it closer to the truth, it would have removed the self- righteous attempts to avoid paying your taxes, by people whinging about the state of their roads, or how they already pay for their rubbish collection.


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    #7621
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    porsche boy wrote: »
    I havent read the whole thread (507 pages) but I have come across a couple of people commenting that they are paying it because they dont want a huge fine.
    The maximum penalty for non payment at the end of the year will be €45, that's a total of €145 owing by 31st December. The €2500 fine that is being chucked around is the maximum fine that a Judge can impose.

    Look at it like this: if you pay then you pay, that's it. If you don't pay, make a stand with the majority of the country then we might be able to stop this unfair tax and if by the end of the year if no progress has been made you can pay up with the 50% penalty. That is my plan anyway.

    I genuinely believe a far fairer way to recoup the monies needed would be a wealth tax. Tax the buggers that really benefited from the good times and have continued to benefit in the recession

    If anyone requires further information look on nohouseholdtax.org/faq

    The government will thank you for helping bump up the revenue intake of this tax by a ballpark 35%.


This discussion has been closed.
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