Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Options
1…248249251253254…334

Comments

  • Options
    #7502
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    phil1nj wrote: »
    Maybe, maybe not.

    There is no maybe not about it. Our creditors are not going to reduce our debt by the amount “lost” if this tax is scrapped. And a sizable portion of those that bring “victory” in this campaign will ultimately pay more than €100 per year.
    phil1nj wrote: »
    Maybe expenditure and the cost of our national and local governments should be looked at more closely before laying everything at the foot of the taxpayer.

    But the costs (less commercial contributions) IS currently being laid at the foot of the taxpayer and this will continue to the case. These services will continue and the taxpayer will pay for them (who else would?). All that will change is the structure of how it will be paid for.
    phil1nj wrote: »
    Some of these increases can be avoided via Personal choice (drive a smaller car, spend less on taxed services etc). Legal tax avoidance if you will. As opposed to having no choice in paying ad this household charge demonstrates.

    But it will still be the case that the collective amount paid by the taxpayer will be exactly equal to what they don’t pay in the household charge. Most taxes (income, VAT etc) do not afford you the choice not to pay. Ditto with cuts.
    phil1nj wrote: »
    People wanted rid of FF. FG/Labour appeared to offer a real chance to change things (pre election promises, 5 point plans, no more money for the banks etc etc). Now it looks like they are going to maintain FFs previous policies despite telling the public the opposite.

    People wanted rid of FF because they were deemed to be incompetent and corrupt (though the later is greater exaggerated, little of the mess we are in would have been avoided, even had there been no corruption). This is how FG and Lab were to be different. I don’t know how you got the impression that their policies on dealing with the crisis were radically different?

    And there was an alternative approach proposed by the likes of Sinn Fein and the ULA but people were not persuaded by them.


  • Options
    #7503
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    lugha wrote: »
    There is no maybe not about it. Our creditors are not going to reduce our debt by the amount “lost” if this tax is scrapped. And a sizable portion of those that bring “victory” in this campaign will ultimately pay more than €100 per year.

    The 100Euro flat rate charge is the issue here. The incompetent way the charge was brought in and the bully boy tactics currently being used to "frighten" homeowners in to paying is the issue here. Not the fact that a property tax is being introduced (I for one don't doubt that one will be introduced, but I want to see it introduced fairly and effectively). Also, people want to know what they get for this property tax. So far there has been nothing but waffle and vague responses from the government about local services and the like. This is what people are protesting about


    lugha wrote: »
    But the costs (less commercial contributions) IS currently being laid at the foot of the taxpayer and this will continue to the case. These services will continue and the taxpayer will pay for them (who else would?). All that will change is the structure of how it will be paid for.

    Well then maybe some of these services should be scaled back or reduced altogether. Cutting your cloth and all that jazz. There are currently +400K unemployed on the live register. How about getting some of the long termed unemployed (you know those people who somehow managed to avoid working during the boom years) to help out with local services (maintenance of parks, communal areas, estates etc). They are already in receipt of a state payment, the councils need a dig out so to speak. You have a perfect coincidence of wants right there but it's easier to hit Joe and Josephine homeowner/taxpayer to keep up the current level of services (and the wastage they entail).


    lugha wrote: »
    But it will still be the case that the collective amount paid by the taxpayer will be exactly equal to what they don’t pay in the household charge. Most taxes (income, VAT etc) do not afford you the choice not to pay. Ditto with cuts.

    I don't agree. VAT can and is being avoided as is evidenced via the drop off in retail sales that followed the VAT increase in the last budget. People can go for the cheaper option when purchasing goods. Thus avoiding the higher VAT charges. That was my point. Same for services.
    lugha wrote: »
    People wanted rid of FF because they were deemed to be incompetent and corrupt (though the later is greater exaggerated, little of the mess we are in would have been avoided, even had there been no corruption). This is how FG and Lab were to be different. I don’t know how you got the impression that their policies on dealing with the crisis were radically different?

    The above is your opinion (I don't share it, especially your view about the level of corruption within that particular party). A lot of the mess could have been avoided if it weren't for the reckless budgetary policies that FF put in place during their years in power. Light touch banking regulations, budget surpluses funded by an ever increasing intake from property sales and a housing bubble, massive public service expenditure and expansion, benchmarking etc. These activities may or may not have been subject to corruption (you or I don't know what went on a FF cabinet meetings down through the years) but the outcome was still the same - the current economic mess we are in. I never bought the two Brians' belief that Lehmanns caused our problems. A lot of them were home grown and waiting to strike and now the country is reaping what FF sowed. Unfortuantely FG/Labour appear to have shown that they have no new ideas for tackling the years of economic recklessness and incompetence perpetrated by FF.
    lugha wrote: »
    And there was an alternative approach proposed by the likes of Sinn Fein and the ULA but people were not persuaded by them.

    Yep, like I said there is no other viable alternative available to others. I'm not a proponent of any of these parties and don't see them as a workable alternative to our problems. But that is just my opinion.


  • Options
    #7504
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Woke up this fine Sunday morning to a Household Charge Application Form sticking through my letterbox! Dublin city centre.
    Council boys and girls out very quick and very early!
    Anyone else?


  • Options
    #7505
    psychward
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    gambiaman wrote: »
    Woke up this fine Sunday morning to a Household Charge Application Form sticking through my letterbox! Dublin city centre.
    Council boys and girls out very quick and very early!
    Anyone else?

    Everyone is getting them I think . Even council tenants are getting ''final reminder warning'' letters which just goes to show they don't have a clue who should be paying and who shouldn't.


  • Options
    #7506
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    retro child wrote: »
    the people who have payed have no back bone , the remaining 1.6 millon we stand our ground , if not for ourselfs then for our kids, sometimes in life we have to lose control to gain control, make a stand unite and become one!!!

    Yeah, you're a real ****ing hero.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7507
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    Yeah, you're a real ****ing hero.

    Francis, no need to keep crossing the line to personal abuse when someone posts something you disagree with.


  • Options
    #7508
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    psychward wrote: »
    Everyone is getting them I think . Even council tenants are getting ''final reminder warning'' letters which just goes to show they don't have a clue who should be paying and who shouldn't.

    And who's paying for this total waste of money on leaflets, and how they're being delivered?

    yep, tax payers money..........


  • Options
    #7509
    Gingernuts31
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Gingernuts31


    Ghandee wrote: »
    And who's paying for this total waste of money on leaflets, and how they're being delivered?

    yep, tax payers money..........

    How are they a waste? Granted for people that genuinly know nothing about it it will inform them. For those that do but pretend they don't it will inform them. For those that do know about it, it will remind them of their obligation to pay towards putting Ireland back on its feet. But sure it doesn't matter because as mentioned here earlier if the NO camp does win and it is abolished they will bring it in some other way such as even higher car tax, maybe even more of a reduction on TRS, raised income tax and prsi. They will get the money they need 1 way or another so if it is abolished expect EVERYONE to pay not just those with a house.


  • Options
    #7510
    retro child
    Registered Users Posts: 48 ✭retro child


    black francis wrote: »
    Yeah, you're a real ****ing hero.

    Read a comic if you want to talk about heros , these are real issues not fiction, i take it you payed? , people lead sheep follow!!


  • Options
    #7511
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Ghandee wrote: »
    And who's paying for this total waste of money on leaflets, and how they're being delivered?

    yep, tax payers money..........

    Some / lots of overtime and travel expenses for the staff will have to be found as well.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7512
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    retro child wrote: »
    Read a comic if you want to talk about heros , these are real issues not fiction, i take it you payed? , people lead sheep follow!!

    Amazing the amount of principle and backbone on display when the issue is avoiding your taxes.

    Just coincidence I guess :rolleyes:.


  • Options
    #7513
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    black francis wrote: »
    Amazing the amount of principle and backbone on display when the issue is avoiding your taxes.

    Just coincidence I guess :rolleyes:.

    It's amazing the backbone required to be a good little citizen and to do what you're told. No coincidence there.


  • Options
    #7514
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    Amazing the amount of principle and backbone on display when the issue is avoiding your taxes.

    Just coincidence I guess :rolleyes:.

    Here is a classic example of 'Backbone' and of 'principle'.

    Lets look at what big Phil did back in 2009, when he was asked to follow his leader Enda Kenny in taking a 10% pay cut to his then €110,000 a year salary....
    FINE Gael frontbencher Phil Hogan yesterday refused to elaborate on the "personal circumstances" preventing him following his party leader in taking a voluntary pay cut from his €110,000 salary.

    His party is currently calling for wage cuts on those earning over €100,000 in the public sector.

    Leader Enda Kenny took a voluntary pay cut of 5pc since last October.

    But Mr Hogan yesterday said he would not be following his own party's example.

    "No. My personal circumstances don't allow that at the moment," Mr Hogan said.

    The Carlow-Kilkenny TD last night insisted there was no contradiction between the party's official policy on wage cuts and his own refusal to take a vol


    Full details here....http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fine-gael-deputy-on-e110000-cant-take-wage-cut-1646893.html


    Btw, Phil is on €170,000 these days (plus expenses)......


    Further proof that Phil is only worried about his own personal finances, and be to **** with the rest of ours!


  • Options
    #7515
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    black francis wrote: »
    Amazing the amount of principle and backbone on display when the issue is avoiding your taxes.

    Just coincidence I guess :rolleyes:.

    This is not about avoiding taxes. It's about looking for efficent government. We have less people working and those who are working are expected to keep paying more taxes when government should be cutting its cloth to match its income.

    State Pensions should be cut, social welfare should be cut further for long term unemployed, public pensions should be cut. Trying to maintain current levels is unsustainable. And taxing people more in this economy is unsustainable. You need to get the economy going, more people back to work and then finances will look after itself. However that should not be an invitation to government to spend more.


  • Options
    #7516
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    There should be no voluntary reductions by those TDs. It should be mandatory. Phil Hogan has been shown for what he is in that post above .


  • Options
    #7517
    Mrs Garth Brooks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Mrs Garth Brooks


    Well im not paying cause im renting. But i hope no one pays it at home and that goes for the neighbours too.

    I got the leaflet through the door yesterday with the final reminder of the household charge.

    In it it says the household charge benefits everyone. It goes on local services like street maintenance and street lighting.

    BULL

    Where im from i have to get off a bus and walk a mile up a boggy road without lights. The same road has a small hole going right through the road that has been there for months and is getting bigger. What happens to the hole if people pays, nothing, it'll keep getting bigger until some poor animal or child falls through.

    I can't believe they are trying to trick people into paying this silly charge. It doesn't benefit everyone, what happens if you live in the middle of nowhere, you're miles from the nearest village with one little shop that closes at 6pm? There is no parks, libraries, etc to maintain. Do they still want you to cough up for something you will never ever get any benefit from?


  • Options
    #7518
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    HardLuckWoman wrote: »
    ...Do they still want you to cough up for something you will never ever get any benefit from?

    They want you to cough up €160 MIllion - after they have already taken €170 Million from the very same councils, they now suddenly in ironic show of supposed care for them, want you to put it back in - after their thieving!

    ...And with their taking of €170 Million - there is still a €10 Million shortfall.

    ...So others now mad enough, will fork out more money from their own pockets - to cover (almost!) the finances that Dublin has deemed to take away from the councils and boroughs that they say they are worried about!

    Thats right, your forking out now to cover the money that thieves have taken and now those very same disgusting, two faced bastard thieves are telling you, your going to pay for their actions!

    "How do you like them apples?"

    Are you going to be a blind lead sheep and swallow it - or are you going to stand up and tell them to go fcuk themselves!

    Repeat after me if you choose to pay for their thievery...

    "Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa..."

    ................................

    And by the way, you might ask where the €170 million will be going to every year instead, which they have decided to take?
    Look to the banks and bondholders yet again? They want their blood money you sheep!
    They don't give a fcuk where a government robs parts of its payment from! Now pay the fcuk up like a good little lead by the nose animal!

    ................................

    Opposition can give out about the words I use above - but remember, its only an expression of how EXACTLY the crap in FG and Labour is EXACTLY treating you.
    The time for being too polite in saying how they are treating you is over!


  • Options
    #7519
    Flex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,154 ✭✭✭Flex


    Biggins wrote: »
    They want you to cough up €160 MIllion - after they have already taken €170 Million from the very same councils, they now suddenly in ironic show of supposed care for them, want you to put it back in - after their thieving!

    ...And with their taking of €170 Million - there is still a €10 Million shortfall.

    ...So others now mad enough, will fork out more money from their own pockets - to cover (almost!) the finances that Dublin has deemed to take away from the councils and boroughs that they say they are worried about!

    Thats right, your forking out now to cover the money that thieves have taken and now those very same disgusting, two faced bastard thieves are telling you, your going to pay for their actions!

    "How do you like them apples?"

    Are you going to be a blind lead sheep and swallow it - or are you going to stand up and tell them to go fcuk themselves!

    Repeat after me if your paying for their thievery...

    "Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa..."

    You know about the deficit, right?


  • Options
    #7520
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,530 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    This is not about avoiding taxes. It's about looking for efficent government. We have less people working and those who are working are expected to keep paying more taxes when government should be cutting its cloth to match its income.

    State Pensions should be cut, social welfare should be cut further for long term unemployed, public pensions should be cut. Trying to maintain current levels is unsustainable. And taxing people more in this economy is unsustainable. You need to get the economy going, more people back to work and then finances will look after itself. However that should not be an invitation to government to spend more.

    Maybe you are including Child Benefit in your thoughts but explicitly how much would you like to cut from that? Giving €1700 tax free per year for each child is costing the country a fortune. A person with no children would have to earn probably €10000 more than the person with three children to get that into their hand.


  • Options
    #7521
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Flex wrote: »
    You know about the deficit, right?
    What a stupid question.

    ...Here's an equally stupid one for you - and where has the BILLIONS gone that could help?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7522
    galwayrush
    Registered Users Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Flex wrote: »
    You know about the deficit, right?

    You mean most of which is due to waste. Cutting down on that would go much further in tackling the deficit... right?:rolleyes:


  • Options
    #7523
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Biggins wrote: »
    They want you to cough up €160 MIllion - after they have already taken €170 Million from the very same councils, they now suddenly in ironic show of supposed care for them, want you to put it back in - after their thieving!

    ...And with their taking of €170 Million - there is still a €10 Million shortfall.

    ...So others now mad enough, will fork out more money from their own pockets - to cover (almost!) the finances that Dublin has deemed to take away from the councils and boroughs that they say they are worried about!

    Thats right, your forking out now to cover the money that thieves have taken and now those very same disgusting, two faced bastard thieves are telling you, your going to pay for their actions!

    "How do you like them apples?"

    Are you going to be a blind lead sheep and swallow it - or are you going to stand up and tell them to go fcuk themselves!

    Repeat after me if you choose to pay for their thievery...

    "Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa... Baaaaa..."

    ................................

    And by the way, you might ask where the €170 million will be going to every year instead, which they have decided to take?
    Look to the banks and bondholders yet again? They want their blood money you sheep!
    They don't give a fcuk where a government robs parts of its payment from! Now pay the fcuk up like a good little lead by the nose animal!
    Way way OTT, no need to be insulting, apart from anything else you are way better than that.


  • Options
    #7524
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    HardLuckWoman wrote: »
    Well im not paying cause im renting. But i hope no one pays it at home and that goes for the neighbours too.

    I got the leaflet through the door yesterday with the final reminder of the household charge.

    In it it says the household charge benefits everyone. It goes on local services like street maintenance and street lighting.

    BULL

    Where im from i have to get off a bus and walk a mile up a boggy road without lights. The same road has a small hole going right through the road that has been there for months and is getting bigger. What happens to the hole if people pays, nothing, it'll keep getting bigger until some poor animal or child falls through.

    I can't believe they are trying to trick people into paying this silly charge. It doesn't benefit everyone, what happens if you live in the middle of nowhere, you're miles from the nearest village with one little shop that closes at 6pm? There is no parks, libraries, etc to maintain. Do they still want you to cough up for something you will never ever get any benefit from?

    Funny how now they need money to put into street lighting. Wonder where the taxes people paid for decades went? Surely that should have been going into these necessities.

    The whole thing is an absolute joke. It's like 'OK, we lined our pockets, youa re all onto us now and now we need to start fixing the place, we'll do right by you now.... so cough up.

    P*ss off!


  • Options
    #7525
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    There should be no voluntary reductions by those TDs. It should be mandatory. Phil Hogan has been shown for what he is in that post above .

    Exactly.

    We, the general public are expected to 'do our patriotic duty, and all chip int'l whilst Phil not only flat out refused to take a pay cut (giving something back), but worse still, has seen his take home pay jump by €60,000 over three years.

    I know no one personally who got twenty grand a year of a pay boost this last few years.


    You cannot defend the indefensible!

    Hypocrisy from the yes camp stinks

    The


  • Options
    #7526
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    Funny how now they need money to put into street lighting. Wonder where the taxes people paid for decades went? Surely that should have been going into these necessities.
    Street lighting is an ongoing expense.


  • Options
    #7527
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Exactly.

    We, the general public are expected to 'do our patriotic duty, and all chip int'l whilst Phil not only flat out refused to take a pay cut (giving something back), but worse still, has seen his take home pay jump by €60,000 over three years.

    I know no one personally who got twenty grand a year of a pay boost this last few years.


    You cannot defend the indefensible!

    Hypocrisy from the yes camp stinks

    The

    Sorry, but what the F**k has Phil Hogans pay got to do with the yes camp?
    I mean, ok you and many others oppose the charge, fair enough, thats your right, but how can you link Phil hogans pay to my decision to pay the tax?


  • Options
    #7528
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    dvpower wrote: »
    Street lighting is an ongoing expense.

    So why is it being flung out there now as a reason to pay? I suppose so that the gullible think 'ah yeah, we better pay or we will lose our street lights' :confused:


  • Options
    #7529
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    So why is it being flung out there now as a reason to pay? I suppose so that the gullible think 'ah yeah, we better pay or we will lose our street lights' :confused:
    I think services would be cut, but street lighting would be prioritized.


  • Options
    #7530
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    lividduck wrote: »
    Way way OTT, no need to be insulting, apart from anything else you are way better than that.

    Normally I would totally agree but I'm expressing not how I feel but putting across how many feel that sees how (once again) our national government does what it likes once they have the power and overrides the people, while its scres them - them tell them to pay up for it.

    Some - actually (and I'm glad to see it) - a lot more of us are saying "Enough! I'll accept the dire consequences to myself if that what it takes to show a shower of two faces pieces of crap, that sorry, not all of us are going to take their abuse and pay for it too!"

    No!

    Lets start calling things as we really see them. The time for politeness - while still being peaceful in action - is over.
    "Enough is a god-damn ENOUGH!"


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7531
    phil1nj
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭phil1nj


    lividduck wrote: »
    Sorry, but what the F**k has Phil Hogans pay got to do with the yes camp?
    I mean, ok you and many others oppose the charge, fair enough, thats your right, but how can you link Phil hogans pay to my decision to pay the tax?

    I'd say it's because so far all the arguments for paying this charge (sorry tax) have been because the country is on it's knees economically. No one will argue with that but so far the only tactic that the powers that be can come up with is to tax people some more. The other side of the coin is expenditure (and accountability). Phil's wages comes under the expenditure side of this divide hence why it was brought up.

    The gravy train has to be brought to a stop before people will accept new taxes/charges/levies. We have one of the highest paid leaders in the western world. Kind of makes a mockery of the whole austerity argument right there.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement