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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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    #5702
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    if there was no advocating criminality we wouldnt be able to talk about politics at all :D


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    #5703
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    This is what happens if you break the law in the North.

    If you don't pay your rates

    If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
    •additional costs
    •your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
    •you could be made bankrupt
    •your home could be repossessed

    In 2010 - 11 court action was taken against more than 45,000 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.

    I wonder if a Sinn Fein coalition in the South will adopt the same approach.


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    #5704
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    This is what happens if you break the law in the North.

    If you don't pay your rates

    If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
    •additional costs
    •your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
    •you could be made bankrupt
    •your home could be repossessed

    In 2010 - 11 court action was taken against more than 45,000 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.

    I wonder if a Sinn Fein coalition in the South will adopt the same approach.

    Thanks for that.

    P.S.
    This is the south!

    As we have seen, our lot can't organise a piss up in a brewery.
    ...Now if it was in a Dail bar or expensive restaurant...


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    #5705
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Working people in this country are getting sick of subsidising part of the population who will always have to be subsidised because that is all they have ever known and have been encouraged by successful governments.

    Why is there any exemptions at all? Why are the rest of us subsidising those who are exempt?


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    #5706
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    This is what happens if you break the law in the North.

    If you don't pay your rates

    If you do not pay your rates or contact LPS to make an arrangement to clear your account, you will be taken to court. This will mean:
    •additional costs
    •your credit rating could be affected, and as a result you may not be able to apply for credit or a loan
    •you could be made bankrupt
    •your home could be repossessed

    In 2010 - 11 court action was taken against more than 45,000 ratepayers for non-payment of rates.

    I wonder if a Sinn Fein coalition in the South will adopt the same approach.



    sweet baby Jesus, how many times?

    Comparing rates in the north, where, for your money you get, free healthcare, waste collection, no charges by the fire service/ambulance service, no tolled roads, lower vat rate, unmetered water, etc etc etc etc etc,


    To a household charge where, after payment is made you get, sweet Fanny Adams is nonsensical.

    Rates in north = something for your money
    Household charge = nothing for your money.


    And again with the Sinn Fein slur?

    Since they're advocating non compliance, I highly doubt they will tbh :rolleyes:

    Take a break now Dx, please.


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    #5707
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    the "all the other countries have it" thing gets wearing after a while.
    my old granny used to say, "if little Jimmy jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?"........


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    #5708
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    the "all the other countries have it" thing gets wearing after a while.
    my old granny used to say, "if little Jimmy jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?"........

    That was exactly my thoughts earlier in a previous post - along with "two wrongs don't make a right!"


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    #5709
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    The other countries have a better public service and health care system. With all the money pumped into the health service in this country we should have the best in the world but we don't because of unions and bad management.


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    #5710
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Working people in this country are getting sick of subsidising part of the population who will always have to be subsidised because that is all they have ever known and have been encouraged by successful governments.

    Why is there any exemptions at all? Why are the rest of us subsidising those who are exempt?

    Probably a pragmatic political decision in the wake of the Government being forced to bring in the tax in a hurry. By exempting the so called vulernable section of the community it meant that the CAHWT campaign was put in a position of pretending to stand up for the rights of private property. If the tax applied to public housing there would have been an almighty outcry from the poverty industry.

    There will have to be changes in the years ahead when private home owners will be paying more than the €100. I could see an increase being applied to local authority rents which is a battle the Government is probably glad to postpone.


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    #5711
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    bgrizzley wrote: »
    the "all the other countries have it" thing gets wearing after a while.
    my old granny used to say, "if little Jimmy jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?"........

    Cannabis is decriminalised in Portugal and the Netherlands.
    Cannabis smokers in Switzerland will soon be allowed to grow up to four plants each at home.
    Come on Enda............ lets be havin' ya


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    #5712
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    mikom wrote: »
    Cannabis is decriminalised in Portugal and the Netherlands.
    Cannabis smokers in Switzerland will soon be allowed to grow up to four plants each at home.
    Come on Enda............ lets be havin' ya

    And in the part of the real world where you reside the locals pass on land and property through the generations without resort to legal advice or the involvement of any government agencies. If I remember correctly.


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    #5713
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    Haven't read the whole thread through so apologies if this has come up before but are people aware that Ministers of State are excluded from paying the household charge?

    Link: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp


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    #5714
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Private Property
    Article 43
    1. 1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational
    being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the
    private ownership of external goods.
    2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law
    attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or
    the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit
    property.
    2. 1° The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the
    rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article
    ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of
    social justice.
    2° The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires
    delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view
    to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the
    common good.

    I wonder is the state in contravention of Article 43 of The Constitution if they try to prevent people inheriting or transferring their property to their children while they have not paid this Household Tax ?


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    #5715
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Haven't read the whole thread through so apologies if this has come up before but are people aware that Ministers of State are excluded from paying the household charge?

    Link: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/03/13/00247.asp
    They're not exempted.
    That has been dealt with here and on another thread in AH.


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    #5716
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    dvpower wrote: »
    They're not exempted.
    That has been dealt with here and on another thread in AH.

    Could you clarify this for me please? Is the info on the link outdated?


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    #5717
    bgrizzley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    i would think they have it covered Tayto. they arent abolishing the right, just a little blackmail before you can do it


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    #5718
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I wonder is the state in contravention of Article 43 of The Constitution if they try to prevent people inheriting or transferring their property to their children while they have not paid this Household Tax ?
    The fact that we've got Inheritance Tax might be a pointer here.


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    #5719
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I thought the mods weren't here at all. Seeing as the Don't Register Dont Pay message we see on every page is actually against the AH Charter since it advocates criminality.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055747615

    No advocating criminality or violence



    Any threads or posts advocating illegal activities or asking for help in such activities will be deleted. Please do not attempt to advocate or incite criminality or violence as this is a bannable offence.

    I posted this in another thread where breaking of the law regarding the TV Licence was being advocated but nothing happened except I got a load of personal abuse. Which is supposed not to be tolerated either.

    There must be a mod application form for you somehwere.


  • Options
    #5720
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Could you clarify this for me please? Is the info on the link outdated?
    There is a thread on it here
    Some confusion over the wording - the legislation says property 'vested' in the Minister is exempt - this was reported as 'owned'.


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    #5721
    Izzy Skint
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭Izzy Skint


    florodon2 wrote: »
    NO!
    Here in Cork a new Gael Scoil for 300 pupils is to be built on the only local public green area, on the Tank Field.
    About 200 meters away is Mayfield Community School, built for 1,000 pupils, with only 300 there now.
    Yes, two thirds of the building empty - and the Dept of Education wants to build a NEW school.... on a much used public green area, the only green, public, flat area in this part of the city.
    Obviously the money isn't out of their own pockets. Spend the public's money seems to be all they can think of.
    And then make cuts in other sections of the Dept of Education's budget, classroom assistants, teachers, cut back on smaller local schools, close down small local schools.
    SIGH!
    Florodon, i don't live too far away from mayfield and will not comment on this matter but your point is very valid.
    A more fundamental question for me is why, down through the years, has hundreds of millions if not billions of euros been pumped into supporting the irish language, gaeltacht areas, subsidising rail and air links to towns and areas where the services are not needed and god knows what other subsidies / tax breaks wasted in these areas..and all this investment has not made one bit of difference.
    I am not a fan of the irish language, and I am not against it either, what I am against is the wate of money because of it.... for generations my family, like most I presume, have spoken english. English, whether we like it or not is our bread and butter in this country....think about it, there are only 2 native english speaking countries in europe, ireland and uk, and there is only 1 in the euro zone, ireland.
    How many jobs has the irish language brought to this country through foreign investment??.....compare to how many jobs have been created here because we are english speaking?....although I will admit that the irish language has certainly created many high paying cushy government jobs!!
    Lets get our priorities right in this sad little country NOW.... would the money not be better spent on lets say equipment for sick children, or elderly care, or hospital wards etc...or have people a problem with these causes...hmmmm....help sick children or support for the irish language....a no brainer in my view.

    We are a bankrupt country, we are going to rely on foreign investment and exports to get us out of this mess....it is all about priorities, sorry...it is all about government's priorities....god help us all.


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    #5722
    pconn062
    Registered Users Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    dvpower wrote: »
    There is a thread on it here
    Some confusion over the wording - the legislation says property 'vested' in the Minister is exempt - this was reported as 'owned'.

    Thank you.


  • Options
    #5723
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    mikom wrote: »
    Doesn't pay
    A person renting a council house with a good (non benefit) income, streetlights outside, public sewerage, a park and a library just a short jog away.

    Pays
    John the unemployed farm labourer in an heirloom one bedroomed cottage in rural mayo, no streetlights outside, private septic tank, no park, no library.
    Ps. We'll be back shortly to ask for more money for the septic tank)

    Justice.
    Fine Gael style

    You forgot about all the wealth John has in his cottage equity though...


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    #5724
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    If anyone here that is a FG/Labour supporter really thinks that 120,000 households are going to register and pay EACH DAY for the next 12 days,then you are all living in a dream world.

    This charge will be defeated,and is allready defeated.

    And MR Hogan can threaten and slagg off/slander as many people as he wants to (mocking the lady in public about being screwed by yer man),but all he is doing is driving the nail further into his coffin and also the coffin of this stupid charge too.


    All the FG/Labour supporters and Enda fans should face the facts here (especially DV Power).


    All your postings and talk here on this form is just typical FG scare tactics and its pointless too (as the public have allready spoken on the matter,and are speaking and now shouting louder and louder each day the words NO NO and NO again).







    PS-I wonder will Enda Kenny hand you back your 100 euro on April 1st though?????


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    #5725
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    paddy147 wrote: »
    If anyone here that is a FG/Labour supporter really thinks that 120,000 households are going to register and pay EACH DAY for the next 12 days,then you are all living in a dream world.

    This charge will be defeated,and is allready defeated.

    And MR Hogan can threaten and slagg off/slander as many people as he wants to (mocking the lady in public about being screwed by yer man),but all he is doing is driving the nail further into his coffin and also the coffin of this stupid charge too.


    All the FG/Labour supporters should face the facts here (especially DV Power).


    All your postings and talk here on this form is just typical FG scare tactics and its pointless too.







    PS-I wonder will Enda Kenny hand you back your 100 euro on April 1st though?????

    I don't think anyone is expecting 100% compliance for a new tax. Would you like to predict what the figure will be on 31 March?


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    #5726
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    paddy147 wrote: »
    If anyone here that is a FG/Labour supporter really thinks that 120,000 households are going to register and pay EACH DAY for the next 12 days,then you are all living in a dream world.

    This charge will be defeated,and is allready defeated.

    And MR Hogan can threaten and slagg off/slander as many people as he wants to (mocking the lady in public about being screwed by yer man),but all he is doing is driving the nail further into his coffin and also the coffin of this stupid charge too.


    All the FG/Labour supporters and Enda fans should face the facts here (especially DV Power).


    All your postings and talk here on this form is just typical FG scare tactics and its pointless too (as the public have allready spoken on the matter,and are speaking and now shouting louder and louder each day the words NO NO and NO again).

    Im surprised there are not a few names in red here, with verified representitive written after them.


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    #5727
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is expecting 100% compliance for a new tax. Would you like to predict what the figure will be on 31 March?

    Lol, is only at 15% now!

    Even if it got treble the numbers in registrations it would be less than 45%,

    I'm going to stick my head on the block here, I predict less than 35%.

    Your purposely refusing to acknowledge the sheer anger and revulsion that really exists out there DX.

    Tax failure IMO


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    #5728
    greenpilot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is expecting 100% compliance for a new tax. Would you like to predict what the figure will be on 31 March?

    ...And so the U-Turns begin.......
    Looks like weve won this one folks. Well done to all of you who havent paid. There shall be many more comments of the ilk "...well I never said that", or " I dont think anyone is expecting...." Actually, you WERE expecting full compliance, but you have been shown up by those of us outside Urbanality that we have spines afterall!!


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    #5729
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Im surprised there are not a few names in red here, with verified representitive written after them.


    Sure no mater what names are mentioned and what any FG back bench TD or counciler publicly says against the charge,all the Enda fans here will deny it and claim that its all lies and being made up.

    FG and all their lovely little Enda fans here on this thread,dont seem to listen to their own back benchers and councilers.


    They are all in denial.



    The FG Ard Fheis is going to be a great auld laugh indeed,especially with thousands of protesters shouting and chanting outside.


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    #5730
    greenpilot
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    11 days of false propaganda ahead. The head of the "Household Charge Collection Agency," Jackie Maguire has been peddling statistics like there is no tomorrow. She thinks that over 1.4 million households will register before the end of March. Here are some interesting details:

    1. Jackie Maguire (JM) says the household charge website activity is up 2 fold
    FACT :The site traffic is in decline month on month
    http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/householdcharge.ie#

    alexa is like the TAM or JNLR of web traffic. external audience size
    sampling based on browser toolbar user stats.

    2. JM says that registrations have seen “significant increase over the last
    ten days”
    not true

    average day rate prior to Feb 20th was 2115
    average day rate 20 – 27 Feb was 2937

    That is a 0.3 fold increase. which is not significant.

    3. JM & morning ireland talk of 1.6M needing to register. but
    previously JM said and knows it is 1.8M
    so they are not 1.4M off the total they are 1.66M off

    4. JM says general trend is upward. true. but it only amounts to 30%
    increase on extremely flat figures.
    if there was a 1000% increase (ten fold) from now to March 31st then
    there would still be 700,000 not registered.
    And right now they have a 30% increase.

    Projected non registered at current rate is 1,596,562 source
    http://cahwt.net/calc/

    ***

    Don't give into the FG-Labour hype and propaganda. You saw where that got you in the last election.

    Special exemptions to pay advisers €150,000 a year, Ruairi Quinn fiddling his mileage expenses, James Reilly paying €604 on coffee machines for his offic as outlined here:

    James Reilly spent €624 of taxpayers’ money on two deluxe Bewley’s coffee machines — one for each of his offices. One has been installed in his office in the health department at Hawkins House while the other sits in his Leinster House rooms.

    His spokesman said the minister needed the machines because he worked long hours and the Dáil restaurant and department canteen were not always open.

    * He has received tax breaks for maintaining his 13-bed family mansion in Co Offaly. He received tax breaks for six years running to help pay for renovations to the three-storey Laughton House, which is surrounded by 150 acres of farm and woodland.

    Oh and by the way, the chairman of the RTÉ board is Tom Savage. Tom who is married to Terry Prone and is Anton Savage of Today FM's Dad is also a director of "The Communications Clinic."

    "So what" you might say.

    Well, here's what:

    James Reilly, the health minister, paid a public relations company €15,000 for advice on health reform as well as for speech writing advice, his office confirmed.

    He paid the money last year to the Communications Clinic, whose directors are PR consultant Terry Prone and Tom Savage, the chairman of the RTÉ board.


    **

    I wonder if the Chairman of the board of RTÉ worries about whether or not a customer of his is criticised on RTÉ programmes?

    I wonder if Terry Prone is nervous of criticising a valued customer of hers in her columns in the Examiner or when she is giving her expert opinion on various RTÉ programmes?

    Vote NO to the household charge and stop funding this casino.


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    #5731
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,734 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    greenpilot wrote: »
    ...And so the U-Turns begin.......
    Looks like weve won this one folks. Well done to all of you who havent paid. There shall be many more comments of the ilk "...well I never said that", or " I dont think anyone is expecting...." Actually, you WERE expecting full compliance, but you have been shown up by those of us outside Urbanality that we have spines afterall!!

    About three weeks ago I predicted 58% would pay. And posted that prediction here. I haven't changed my mind since.


This discussion has been closed.
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