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15 year old boy who had consensual sex with 14 year old girl faces 5 years in prison

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    #212
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    If he gets it to a European Court he'll win it. Excellent example of when the justice system exists to serve itself and the people who work in it.


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    #213
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    To ecj or whatever, we go.


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    #214
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Usual thing of the justice system existing to serve itself. How much was spent on the legislation brought in in 2006 on people who are trained and know well that this is incompatible with European law? So far there's been two cases and more money spent and there should be another one all to change something that shouldn't have happened in the first place.


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    #215
    mcspongeicus
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭mcspongeicus


    Nodin wrote: »
    Should anyone be fucking prosecuted in this instance is the more relevant question....

    No, probably not. The legal age and its application shoud surely be there to prevent adults engaging in sex with minors and prosecute those who do.....But in the case of two 14 or 15 year olds, even though its frowned upon in society, surely there should be some leniency against an actual prosecution. I wonder was it the girls parents who pushed this case, how does she feel about it?


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    #216
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    amacachi wrote: »
    If he gets it to a European Court he'll win it. Excellent example of when the justice system exists to serve itself and the people who work in it.

    Yeha but he shouldn't have to. We should be able to fix things in our country without Europe telling us how ****ing retarded our laws are. FFS we are still in the ****ing dark ages in this country.


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    #217
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I presume there is more to it than meets the eye but on the face of it the decision seems absolutely outrageous.


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    #218
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    token101 wrote: »
    Yeha but he shouldn't have to. We should be able to fix things in our country without Europe telling us how ****ing retarded our laws are. FFS we are still in the ****ing dark ages in this country.

    That's my bloody point. It's not about the dark ages or anything like that, it's the people working in the legal professions looking after themselves. Thousands of hours and millions of Euros will have been spent on drafting the legislation these charges were brought under when it's obvious they're incompatible with European law. The people drafting legislation get paid either way, may as well make a mess and their mates have jobs made for them.
    It's like the job creation thing of paying one person to dig a hole and another to fill it in. Nothing gets done but people get paid.


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    #219
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Children cannot have consensual sex I think according to Irish law.
    It's always "rape" even if both are in agreement.
    This is so that even if a boy/girl under a certain age agrees to sex they're not allowed.
    The law is there to protect the child from a persuasive much older peer or adult from grooming children for sex, just google "grooming gangs UK" - many cases ongoing there.

    I agree that it's stupid that only one child is on trial and not the other.


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    #220
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    As biggins said, I hope the lad takes the case to the European court of human rights and Irish lawmakers and judiciary are overruled, shamed and forced to fix this law.


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    #221
    Caveman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Caveman1


    If it was the other way around there would be uproar, stories like this make my blood boil, I know its off topic but its the same when a girl cries rape then gets found out for lying they just get off scot-free and that the end of it. Theres a lot of laws that need to be changed in this sh*thole of a country


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    #222
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    As biggins said, I hope the lad takes the case to the European court of human rights and Irish lawmakers and judiciary are overruled, shamed and forced to fix this law.

    Shame? Haha! Ya think they wouldn't have seen it coming at some point?


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    #223
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    amacachi wrote: »
    That's my bloody point. It's not about the dark ages or anything like that, it's the people working in the legal professions looking after themselves. Thousands of hours and millions of Euros will have been spent on drafting the legislation these charges were brought under when it's obvious they're incompatible with European law. The people drafting legislation get paid either way, may as well make a mess and their mates have jobs made for them.
    It's like the job creation thing of paying one person to dig a hole and another to fill it in. Nothing gets done but people get paid.

    I don't think so. I'd say it's far more likely that the government don't want to alter this law for fear of upsetting certain parts of the electorate and incurring the backlash of a lot of the Luddites that live here. Either way it doesn't really matter, this lad has been dragged through this **** for no good reason. He can 'technically' get 5 years, yet the vermin who almost murdered a baby can only get 3? Our justice system is rotten to the core.


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    #224
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    But like.....if it is so obvious to all of us ordinary civilians that this law is the very definition of sexual discrimination, how and why is it being upheld?? I just dont get it


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    #225
    token101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,050 ✭✭✭token101


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    As biggins said, I hope the lad takes the case to the European court of human rights and Irish lawmakers and judiciary are overruled, shamed and forced to fix this law.

    They didn't do that with abortion. We seem to only adopt the **** EU directives.


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    #226
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    The Great Chinholio wrote: »
    On the radio earlier it said the judges both agreed on it being because the girl can get pregnant.
    Both female judges too (on the original case and appeal)

    Hmm, if so, then all they are doing is reciting and acting according to the law. They seem more constrained by it than opinion driven.

    Or does anyone know if the Supreme Court would of been in a position to go against the law?

    Edit:

    Just read up on Judicial Review which is something our Supreme Court have. It's crazy that they didn't take this based on the chances of her getting pregnant.


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    #227
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    But like.....if it is so obvious to all of us ordinary civilians that this law is the very definition of sexual discrimination, how and why is it being upheld?? I just dont get it

    It's upheld because according to the legislation that was passed and our flaky history of legislation and rights in the constitution the judge gets to decide whether or not the law is ok. He/she could've ruled either way. He/she knows that if it goes to Europe that it'll be overturned anyway so why not make a little more work for the people he/she went to college with and their nieces and nephews who are working as interns etc. in other courts.


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    #228
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ...going to stay out of this one, as I'm actually getting angry at the thought of the **** around that'll happen about this. Probably end up like the 1992 abortion thing. We have a political class of assholes, lads and lassies.


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    #229
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Hmm, if so, then all they are doing is reciting and acting according to the law. They seem more constrained by it than opinion driven.

    Or does anyone know if the Supreme Court would of been in a position to go against the law?

    I'm no fancy big town lawyer *hooks thumbs into suspenders* but as far as I understand it's the SC's job to interpret challenged laws and bills and decide if they are in violation of the constitution or not. So in this instance they have decided that the law in question is in line with our current constitutional requirements. It is possible that they personally thought the law was a bunch of horse shit but unless they find that it violates an article of the constitution then they have to uphold it. Of course it's also possible that it was unclear constitutionally and a grey area and they just decided to come down on the side of this law rather than against.

    So I guess everyone grab a broom. It's shenanigans referendum time.


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    #230
    stupidusername
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,762 ✭✭✭✭stupidusername


    So how would we go about getting this ridiculous law changed? I assume it's a matter for a referendum now, because of having to make changes to the constitution? I wonder is there enough momentum in this to push for a referendum.


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    #231
    frisbeeface
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭frisbeeface


    Brilliantly, under this law the girl COULD be prosecuted also if buggery occured, it's only intercourse which the girl has an exemption from.

    Can't believe that this is from 2006 and upheld in 2012.

    A good (and short) article about the high court judgment: http://www.extempore.ie/2011/04/15/md-a-minor-v-ireland-sex-equality-and-the-constitution/


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    #232
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    How many people here had sex before their 17th birthday?


    If you accept Woody Allen's definition of masturbation as "sex with someone you love", then the answer to your question must be "a hell of a lot". Why, I needed glasses by the time I was barely 20.:):):)


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    #233
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    How many people here had sex before their 17th birthday?

    With myself or a woman?


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    #234
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Well the issue that specifically needs to be addressed is:
    5.— A female child under the age of 17 years shall not be guilty of an offence under this Act by reason only of her engaging in an act of sexual intercourse.

    Taken from here

    It actually provides no reasoning behind it referencing the chance of pregnancy at all.

    Don't get why the news articles published haven't quoted that piece directly either :confused:


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    #235
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Well the issue that specifically needs to be addressed is:



    Taken from here

    It actually provides no reasoning behind it referencing the chance of pregnancy at all.

    Don't why the articles published haven't quoted that piece directly either :confused:

    Seems to be pretty much what I said, they put in something stupid that they know will eventually be ruled against.


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    #236
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    So the Irish legal system considers pregnancy a punishment, charming.

    This law is wrong, outdated and out moded, it is a disgrace it has been upheld.
    This needs to change and so does the law which states women can't rape men.


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    #237
    John Doe1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Stupid stupid law, judge judy would be spinning in her grave


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    #238
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Sharrow wrote: »
    So the Irish legal system considers pregnancy a punishment, charming.

    And yet no abortions allowed for rape victims, bit of an anomaly there.


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    #239
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    John Doe1 wrote: »
    Stupid stupid law, judge judy would be spinning in her grave

    Judge Judy isn't dead.


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    #240
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭Morag


    amacachi wrote: »
    And yet no abortions allowed for rape victims, bit of an anomaly there.

    Not really given the amount of victim blaming that gets done,
    The notion that female rape victims are to blame for being in the situation in the first place is in line with that.


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    #241
    MrStuffins
    Registered Users Posts: 19,154 ✭✭✭✭MrStuffins


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    Judge Judy isn't dead.

    Just wait til she hears about this.............


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