Lions 2013 players impressing at RWC

GerM · 30-11-2011 10:29am

The only person that is criminally underrated here I feel is Courtney Lawes. I dislike him as much as anyone but think people are letting that blind them to his ability and performances. Having him on the field is like an additional, good flanker. If he can curb his stupid actions on the field (without losing that aggressive edge) then he’s a brilliant option. There was an instance against Munster when possession was lost and Munster were breaking from their own 22. Lawes made it across the pitch sprinting to make the covering tackle and kill the attack. It was like a corner flagging openside and there’s not another lock that would have made it. If the guy can get a head on his shoulders and keep his form going, he would be a fantastic addition to any side.

jacothelad · 30-11-2011 12:13pm

danthefan wrote: »

What had he done so far to deserve a lengthy ban?

How many players does he have to cripple with late, off the ball, shoulder charges before he ends someone's career.

CatFromHue · 30-11-2011 12:14pm

Is Warburton sure of his place though?

The back row is very very competitive place and I wouldn't be so sure to be honest.

I think having been on a Lions tour previously helps greatly in being a Captain. If McGeechan gets the job it would be something I'm sure he'd be looking for.

I think Heaslip could be in with a great shout. At the moment the biggest competition for his jersey is from SOB!

coffeetogo · 30-11-2011 12:16pm

Warburton will most likely get the nod for Captain if he stays injury free.

I reckon Eddie O'Sullivan could get the nod for the role of coach.

thomond2006 · 30-11-2011 12:17pm

The Lions want a coach to be free for the entire year, which rules out a lot of people.

Benny Cake · 30-11-2011 12:35pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think Heaslip could be in with a great shout. At the moment the biggest competition for his jersey is from SOB!

I reckon Heaslip would have to establish himself as a captain of province or country before he was considered as a Lions captain..

totallegend · 30-11-2011 1:40pm

Benny Cake wrote: »

I reckon Heaslip would have to establish himself as a captain of province or country before he was considered as a Lions captain..

Not to be banging on about Johnson the whole time, but he was definitely Lions captain before he was England captain and I think I remember reading he wasn't even Leicester captain (I'll check into that) but he had gone out on the previous tour in 1993.

Heaslip is not in the same bracket of leadership as Johnson of course, but there is precedent.

Edit; Yep, the Leicester captain in the 1996-7 season was, of course, Dean Richards
cf: http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/heineken_cup.php?section=lineups&fixid=700

CatFromHue · 30-11-2011 1:47pm

Johnson wasn't the England Captain in 97, I think it was Dallaglio.

If you think back that was such a huge job for Johnson. I don't know if you saw any of the 97 behind the scences video but Johnson was in on the team selection meetings!

Heaslip is a different character but if you take it he is in a very strong position to be first choice, has been on a previous Lions tour where played all 3 tests, he's experienced internationally on tours abroad, his position on the field is a good place for a Captain to be in, and he has won a 6 Nations and two Heineken Cups.

Whether he wants the job is a different matter.

danthefan · 30-11-2011 2:23pm

jacothelad wrote: »

danthefan wrote: »

What had he done so far to deserve a lengthy ban?

How many players does he have to cripple with late, off the ball, shoulder charges before he ends someone's career.

Sorry, what?

Was this from the RWC? Where independent citings are brought?

part time punk · 30-11-2011 3:17pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Johnson wasn't the England Captain in 97, I think it was Dallaglio.

If you think back that was such a huge job for Johnson. I don't know if you saw any of the 97 behind the scences video but Johnson was in on the team selection meetings!

Heaslip is a different character but if you take it he is in a very strong position to be first choice, has been on a previous Lions tour where played all 3 tests, he's experienced internationally on tours abroad, his position on the field is a good place for a Captain to be in, and he has won a 6 Nations and two Heineken Cups.

Whether he wants the job is a different matter.

Agree with you on Heaslip. I'd assume he would want the job though. I think he has cultivated this kind of laid back/slacker/cool image but he is in fact a very driven professional player. Nothing to base this on of course.

Webbs · 30-11-2011 3:41pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

Is Warburton sure of his place though?

The back row is very very competitive place and I wouldn't be so sure to be honest.

I think having been on a Lions tour previously helps greatly in being a Captain. If McGeechan gets the job it would be something I'm sure he'd be looking for.

I think Heaslip could be in with a great shout. At the moment the biggest competition for his jersey is from SOB!

As it currently stands then yes Warburton would be an absolute shoe in as 7, as to whether he will be captain am not sure. The Lions role is I would imagine very different to being a countries captain.

Hype710 · 30-11-2011 4:57pm

Warburton looks like he is being groomed for the role, and I think he'd make a great choice. Saw an interview with him recently with Iaeyn (sp) Evans and he came across very well. Heaslip is a dark horse though and has been mentioned, you don't need to be national captain to become Lions captain.

On a side note, i wonder if Joe Schmidt is being considered for the role of backs coach?

WillySignaigo · 19-02-2012 8:20pm

I would say based on form:

15 Rob Kearney
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Owen Farrell
11 Leigh Halfpenny

10 Jonny Sexton
9 Mike Phillips

1 Cian Healy
2 Rory Best
3 Mike Ross
4 Richie Gray
5 Courtney Lawes
6 Stephen Ferris
7 Sam Warburton
8 Jamie Heaslip

Podge_irl · 19-02-2012 8:22pm

I think you're being over generous to the Irish front row there.

PhatPiggins · 19-02-2012 8:23pm

Wouldn't put Farrell in a team if you didn't need him to kick the goals

WillySignaigo · 19-02-2012 8:25pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think you're being over generous to the Irish front row there.

Well if we can't take Castrogiovanni at tighthead, I really don't think there's a better hooker or loosehead than Best or Healy, who would you suggest? I think Adam Jones will be past it by 2013, who would be the only other world class one.

WillySignaigo · 19-02-2012 8:26pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Wouldn't put Farrell in a team if you didn't need him to kick the goals

Yeah that was the only one I was sceptical about. Not a big fan of him myself, think he's overrated, but maybe by 13 he could be good.

PhatPiggins · 19-02-2012 8:29pm

WillySignaigo wrote: »

Yeah that was the only one I was sceptical about. Not a big fan of him myself, think he's overrated, but maybe by 13 he could be good.

To be honest I'd find it hard to make any arguement to break up the Welsh midfield.

irishbucsfan · 19-02-2012 8:35pm

PhatPiggins wrote: »

To be honest I'd find it hard to make any arguement to break up the Welsh midfield.

Roberts/BOD would be my choice.

If he is planning to retire after that tour, I would not like to be the man trying to keep him out of that team. I think it might be his finest hour.

Especially if he's named captain.

ambid · 19-02-2012 8:43pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Roberts/BOD would be my choice.

If he is planning to retire after that tour, I would not like to be the man trying to keep him out of that team. I think it might be his finest hour.

Especially if he's named captain.

Wish I could give a thousand thumbs up for this post.

WillySignaigo · 19-02-2012 8:43pm

Who do you think will be the wild card that will be brought à la Quinlan in 09 before his suspension? Be very interesting to see. Richardt Strauss is eligible for Ireland in the coming months so potential for him to nab a spot as sub on the Test team.

thomond2006 · 19-02-2012 8:51pm

If you were picking a squad of 37 like 2009:

Forwards (20):
Best, Hartley, Ford

Healy, Jenkins
Jones, Ross, Cole

Gray, Lawes, POC, AWJ, Hamilton

Ferris, Lydiate,
SOB, Warburton,
Denton, Heaslip, Faletau

Backs (17):
Phillips, Murray, Youngs

Sexton, Farrell, Hook (Priestland won't be starting for Wales by 2013 IMO)

Roberts, Davies, Tuilagi,

Bowe, Ashton, North, Earls, Cuthbert/Fitzgerald

Kearney, Foden, Halfpenny

Reply to this if I've left out any obvious names above!

The strongest position in terms of depth is probably fullback, any of Kearney, Foden or Halfpenny are good enough to start. Wing is equally strong.

Back five of the forwards looks strong, I think POC will definitely travel, he's in the form of his life and hopefully his downward graft in terms of age won't kick in yet. Gray is an automatic starter while Lawes will certainly get in the 22 being able to play 6 as well (needs to sort out his ****ing head though)

Front row is a concern, Healy is a probable starter and Jenkins should also travel but after that there is a big decrease in ability. Plus Jenkins is very injury prone. Still the Aussie front row has never been great so the scrum isn't a major problem.

People will moan about Tuilagi if he's picked but remember Flutey was picked in 2009 and he was a mercenary. At least Tuilagi developed through the English system at Leicester.

For the record my 22 would be (going on what I know now!):
Healy, Best, Jones, Gray, POC, Ferris, Warburton, Heaslip;
Phillips, Sexton, North, Roberts, Davies, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Ford, Jenkins, Lawes, SOB, Youngs, Hook, Foden

totallegend · 19-02-2012 9:05pm

@thomond, I'd say your selection is more or less on the money based on where we are now; I'd fancy Strauss to push Ford out if he can get any sort of international game time. Probably not enough English players in your selection either, I wouldn't be surprised to see Morgan push ahead of Faletau.

I'm sure people will b*tch about Tuilagi's selection but I don't think that would be fair, being in England since the age of 15 should qualify you I think.

Plus, you omitted BOD, but I'm sure that was just an oversight :cool:

Flincher · 19-02-2012 9:05pm

I think you could lose at least 2 of those back 3 players Thomond. It's going to be a ferociously competitive area of the squad.

I reckon an decent outside bet would by Jonny May. He's got serious pace from full back, and a strong season next year could see him in with a shot.

I definitely wouldn't bet against BOD travelling. If he sees it as is swansong he'll be a man possessed next season. Hopefully the body will be able for it. A decent role on his 4th Lions Tour would be a fitting way to finish up.

Quint2010 · 19-02-2012 9:11pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

If you were picking a squad of 37 like 2009:

Forwards (20):
Best, Hartley, Ford

Healy, Jenkins
Jones, Ross, Cole

Gray, Lawes, POC, AWJ, Hamilton

Ferris, Lydiate,
SOB, Warburton,
Denton, Heaslip, Faletau

Backs (17):
Phillips, Murray, Youngs

Sexton, Farrell, Hook (Priestland won't be starting for Wales by 2013 IMO)

Roberts, Davies, Tuilagi,

Bowe, Ashton, North, Earls, Cuthbert/Fitzgerald

Kearney, Foden, Halfpenny

Reply to this if I've left out any obvious names above!

The strongest position in terms of depth is probably fullback, any of Kearney, Foden or Halfpenny are good enough to start. Wing is equally strong.

Back five of the forwards looks strong, I think POC will definitely travel, he's in the form of his life and hopefully his downward graft in terms of age won't kick in yet. Gray is an automatic starter while Lawes will certainly get in the 22 being able to play 6 as well (needs to sort out his ****ing head though)

Front row is a concern, Healy is a probable starter and Jenkins should also travel but after that there is a big decrease in ability. Plus Jenkins is very injury prone. Still the Aussie front row has never been great so the scrum isn't a major problem.

People will moan about Tuilagi if he's picked but remember Flutey was picked in 2009 and he was a mercenary. At least Tuilagi developed through the English system at Leicester.

For the record my 22 would be (going on what I know now!):
Healy, Best, Jones, Gray, POC, Ferris, Warburton, Heaslip;
Phillips, Sexton, North, Roberts, Davies, Bowe, Kearney

Bench: Ford, Jenkins, Lawes, SOB, Youngs, Hook, Foden

Think Denton of Scotland could make the squad-also Strauss and possibly Fitzgerald. But 8 Irish starters could be pushing things a tad-especially with Gatland at the helm

thomond2006 · 19-02-2012 9:12pm

totallegend wrote: »

Plus, you omitted BOD, but I'm sure that was just an oversight :cool:

BOD has a great chance of getting in, the Lions don't have depth at centre. I admit I forgot about him! I suppose we'll see how he does when he comes back next season, if he's even at 50% he's worth a place on the plane.

Flincher wrote: »

I think you could lose at least 2 of those back 3 players Thomond. It's going to be a ferociously competitive area of the squad.

I reckon an decent outside bet would by Jonny May. He's got serious pace from full back, and a strong season next year could see him in with a shot.

I've only seen May a bit so I can't really say either way, but he might find it hard to get into the England team. For all their flaws, England have strength in the back three.

CatFromHue · 19-02-2012 9:19pm

I'd like to see more of Halfpenny at full back but he could, if he continues his good form, be the main contender for the 15 jersey. He's got as big a boot if not bigger than Kearney, he's very fast, good in the air, is a good footballer, and is also a good tackler. His goal kicking would also be important if Priestland is picked at 10.

Between the home nations there isn't any strong contenders for the 13 jersey other than BOD. We don't have anyone else, BOD offers more than Davies in Wales, and Scotland and England don't have anyone of note yet.

Inside centre I think will be between Roberts and Tuilagi.

Other than North there is no stand out candidate for the wing at the moment. After him there is alot of players in and around the same level but none you could say on form.

Outhalf is between Sexton and Priestland I'd say. The Scottish outhalf could also be a contender. I don't see Farrel as an option yet as he doesn't really play outhalf for his club or country.

Scrumhalf at the moment is Philips.

Up front I think the Welsh players have a great advantage as they play a three test series in June in Oz. After that we'll know if Warburton et al can contend with Pocock.

I wouldn't rule out POC either and I hope Best is on form as I think it'd be great if he got to go on a Lions tour. If he continues his good form I think he'd be a cert for a test spot.

Hype710 · 19-02-2012 9:20pm

Thomond, why won't Priestland be starting for Wales next year? I'd also bring more than one specialist openside, so in that case Ross Rennie and Justin Tipuric are in with a shout.

WillySignaigo · 19-02-2012 9:22pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

totallegend wrote: »

Plus, you omitted BOD, but I'm sure that was just an oversight :cool:

BOD has a great chance of getting in, the Lions don't have depth at centre. I admit I forgot about him! I suppose we'll see how he does when he comes back next season, if he's even at 50% he's worth a place on the plane.

Flincher wrote: »

I think you could lose at least 2 of those back 3 players Thomond. It's going to be a ferociously competitive area of the squad.

I reckon an decent outside bet would by Jonny May. He's got serious pace from full back, and a strong season next year could see him in with a shot.

I've only seen May a bit so I can't really say either way, but he might find it hard to get into the England team. For all their flaws, England have strength in the back three.

I think that Foden and Ashton are having dreadful seasons. Foden had a howler against Italy and Ashton is another league convert that does well for a season then fades slowly, like Vainikolo a few years back, Luscombe for Wales even further back. Wales are just the form team at the moment on both their performances.

Sean Bateman · 19-02-2012 9:25pm

Shouldn't North and Ashton be the wingers?

I think that Sean O'Brien has a great chance of starting at 8 in the Tests.

Warburton must be a sure thing for 7.

POC must be a sure thing.

Would love to see BOD start at 13 in the Tests.

Think Halfpenny might be just a nose ahead of Kearney right now.

Sexton surely has a great should for the 10 jersey.

Lions 2013 players impressing at RWC

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