Western Rail Corridor on Prime time now.

LXFlyer · 19-01-2012 6:16pm

5 direct services and one with a change at Ennis.

The reservation system for whatever reason cannot sell tickets for trains operated by 2600, 2700, 2800 or 29000 trains as they are not set up on it.

However, if you make a booking that involves a trip on a 22000 or Mk 4 beforehand it will sell you a ticket for the portion of the trip that involves a 2600, 2700, 2800 or 29000.

Hence you can book a ticket online from Dublin to Gort but not v.v.

bk · 19-01-2012 6:32pm

According to the new Irish Rail website, they are upgrading the booking system this year. Hopefully this will resolve these issues.

dowlingm · 19-01-2012 11:54pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

So will your average loco. If they were serviced right with preventative maintenance why should they break down? They can manage single units in the UK and abroad. If one dose break down all they have to so is wait for the next multiple unit to arrive and hook it up (Or dose that involve several members of staff? )

Didn't say they're right, just saying that's what the line is apparently.

Run_to_da_hills · 20-01-2012 6:40pm

We had the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, now we have the Galway 8.

coylemj · 20-01-2012 6:58pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We had the Birmingham 6, the Guildford 4, now we have the Galway 8.

Not forgetting the Renault 5

ClovenHoof · 20-01-2012 8:44pm

DDigital wrote: »

So Thomas Sheridan and Derek Wheeler from Platform 11 were actually right in 2004. It was useless, irrelevant, and a waste of time, consultants and resources. I don't have time to revisit all the media coverage that was initially started by the aforementioned, but they were the first to say that it was a dead end deal. Using the article below as an an example, I'm not convinced about Navan or Athlone-Mullingar, but the reference to the endangered Limerick - Waterford line is very close to home at this stage in the proceedings.

Found the original press release.

The Western Rail Corridor - Too Expensive to Rebuild and Will Damage Rail Transport's Overall Viability and Competitiveness

Date: April 4, 2004
From: Derek Wheeler (PRO)
Issued by: Platform 11 Press Office
Iarnród Éireann senior management recently gave an insightful presentation on the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport. It was stated that rebuilding the entire route from Ennis to Collooney will cost Irish taxpayers at least €300 million. For this significant sum, Platform 11 believes the end result would be little more than an infrequent local connecting rail service which would have very limited commuter traffic potential with the possible exception of the Galway - Oranmore - Tuam corridor.

The Western Rail Corridor - some reality checks:

- there is no major population centre north of Tuam along the WRC which is not currently served by rail

- there is already an adequate rail service to the largest town on this section of the route, Claremorris - which not only connects the town with Dublin, but every other major town in Mayo by rail. Claremorris already enjoys a superior rail service than many towns around Ireland of a much larger population

- road traffic congestion, which may justify a WRC rail commuter service, currently exists only between Tuam and Galway city

- railfreight is being successfully transported to and from Ballina / Sligo on the existing network without using the WRC. Railfreight flows in terms of operating efficiency, would not be improved by the reopening of the WRC. They would have access to an alternative route to their final destination, which would not be significantly shorter in distance than current railfreight paths between the West of Ireland and other regions

- the West of Ireland already has the heaviest concentration of passenger rail lines in the entire county

- the operational and maintenance costs of the reopened WRC would present a major financial burden to Iarnród Éireann, due to low patronage of the line and limited appeal of the proposed passenger service to the travelling public

Even the social and economic case has now been called into question as the BMW region in terms of economic development has recently overtaken the South East.

Platform 11 as a national rail transport pressure group does not believe that €300 million to reopen the Western Rail Corridor delivers value for money to Irish taxpayers, and more importantly, will do nothing to enhance the operational potential of the national rail passenger transport network. Rail transport in the West of Ireland would benefit more from increasing the frequency of current services into the region, which would by default, also create viable commuter services in the West and Midlands.

There are other rail transport projects around the country which would make more intelligent and viable use of new investment such as Cork - Midleton, Dublin - Navan and Athlone - Mullingar. €300 million could also go along way to securing the future and development of our existing regional rail routes such as Limerick-Waterford. Platform 11 would also like to remind the Government that Dublin remains the only capital city in the EU still without a rail link of any kind to its airport.

ENDS 04/04/04

DDigital · 21-01-2012 11:23pm

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Found the original press release.

Nearly 8 years ago now. Thanks for sharing. It's interesting that this press release touches on issues which are very relevant these days.

Rail transport in the West of Ireland would benefit more from increasing the frequency of current services into the region, which would by default, also create viable commuter services in the West and Midlands.

This could have been done without reopening Ennis - Athenry.

the operational and maintenance costs of the reopened WRC would present a major financial burden to Iarnród Éireann, due to low patronage of the line and limited appeal of the proposed passenger service to the travelling public

This has obviously come to pass.

€300 million could also go along way to securing the future and development of our existing regional rail routes such as Limerick-Waterford.

I know only 100+ million was spent, but it does seem a bit rediculous that the WRC got the investment, while the above route is under threat, along with Ballybrophy, Roscrea etc. Lets no forget Rosslare - Waterford. These are/were operational railways and no bigger a financial drain than the one that was created via 100 million in expenditure! As I said before, fair play to the lads for putting their necks on the line. They called it right and if memory serves me correctly, they were very much alone at the time, until the tide eventually came in behind them.

22-01-2012 12:03am

I wonder should we just close the thing? It should never have been rebuilt in the first place but is there any point in keeping it open?

LaFlammeRouge · 22-01-2012 12:07am

WEST=ON=TRACK
Patron: Fr. Mícheál MacGréil S.J.
www.westontrack.com
Lo Call 1890 946 200
PRESS RELEASE
Thursday 19.01.2012
From the West = on = Track Community Campaign
______________________________________________
________________
“LIES, DAMNED LIES AND STATISTICS”

How Primetime Misrepresented the Truth about the
Western Rail Corridor

There is considerable anger throughout the west of Ireland at what has been described
as the hatchet job carried out by RTÉ’s Primetime on the Western Rail Corridor on
Tuesday night last. The following are the observations of West on Track in response
to this seriously-flawed presentation by Primetime.

 Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor is the Galway-Limerick route and it
can only be judged as such. It was launched as such and is described as such
on the Iarnród Éireann timetable, readily available to reporter Mr. Diamond
had he chosen to look. There is no such service as the Ennis-Athenry railway.

 The internationally accepted yardstick for the measurement of the
performance of any rail service is the number of passengers who travel on that
service at any point along the entire route until it terminates. Therefore the
notion that the Ennis-Athenry section of the railway alone is the yardstick for
the performance of the railway is simply daft. Yet, Primetime insisted on
breaking up the WRC into pieces so that by singling out one section it could
claim that the entire WRC was somehow “underperforming”.

 We are in no doubt that the real motive behind this programme was to prevent
any further development of the WRC i.e. to Tuam and Claremorris. In our
view the Department of Transport should seek to get value for money out of
the expenditure made in the entire route and ensure that it is run properly.

 Serious questions need to be asked about Iarnród Éireann’s ability to
accurately monitor passenger numbers on this line. The figures from IE cannot
possibly include all passengers as tickets are not inspected between Athenry
and Ennis. Because stations between Ennis and Athenry are unmanned,
Iarnród Éireann is unable to provide any figures for the numbers of OAPs and
other exempted passengers being carried on that section. Yet they are all bona
fide passengers.

 The reality is that the figures being bandied about on Primetime were
unreliable. Iarnród Éireann issued a statement in June of 2011, one year after
the opening of the Galway-Limerick route saying that more than 250,000
passengers had availed of services on the entire Galway-Limerick route in its
first year (made up of pre-existing commuter services plus the new WRC
trains). Mr. Diamond failed to refer to this inconvenient piece of good news
because it would have meant that Colm McCarthy’s risible statistic about 8
people per train would have been shown to be false.

 Mr. Diamond did not interview anyone from Iarnród Éireann, the national
railway company, to ask about the reasons for the alleged “poor performance”
of the railway. He did not raise any question as to whether the quality of the
service provided had anything to do with the patronage. Why didn’t Primetime
insist on an on-the-record response from Iarnród Éireann in the interests of
transparency? After all they were receiving complete co-operation from
Iarnród Éireann in making the programme.

 IÉ has consistently refused to run intercity rolling stock between Galway and
Limerick. While Mr. Diamond triumphantly proclaimed to viewers that people
from Galway and Limerick seemed to be reluctant to make journeys to visit
each other he conveniently did not point that the railway was the only intercity
route in the state without such rolling stock. Even now, with many of these
new trains becoming available, there is no indication that any of them will be
provided on the Western Rail Corridor. Primetime didn’t ask why.

 The subsidy for this railway covers the entire route from Galway to Limerick
again giving the lie to the idea that Ennis-Athenry is the WRC. Mr. Diamond
was told this but did not mention it as it would have completely undermined
Colm McCarthy’s ludicrous assertion that the subsidy for each passenger on
the railway amounts to €85.

 It was repeatedly inaccurately asserted by Mr. Diamond, Ms. O’Callaghan et
al that €105 million has been spent on Phase 1 of the WRC. Mr. Diamond was
well aware that this was incorrect as it was pointed out to him that the railway
station at Oranmore which is to be built this year will come out of the original
allocation and that significant other expenditure had taken place during
construction on works between Ennis and Limerick and Athenry –Galway.

 The railway station for Oranmore, a key part of Phase 1 (and outside the
Ennis-Athenry section) will generate thousands of passengers yet bizarrely
none of them will be eligible to be counted according to the artificial
yardstick of the Department of Transport (or Primetime).

 It was pointed out to Mr. Diamond that despite the fact that the railway opened
in April 2010 that works on the railway have been going on ever since, all of
this expenditure still coming from the same alleged €105million. Mr.
Diamond made no mention of this and Ms. O’Callaghan did not ask the
Minister to clarify the situation.

 The tone and content of the commentary throughout from Messrs. Diamond,
McCarthy and McDowell was insulting to older people, the suggestion being
that OAPs were in some way not real passengers. Mr. Diamond failed to point
out that Iarnród Éireann receives a payment from the State to cover such
journeys on every railway route in the state.

The underselling of Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor.
What Primetime failed to report:
 the tax-saver programme has never been aggressively promoted
to Galway commuters and businesses
 the services have never been promoted among the student population and 3
rd
level institutions in Galway
 incredibly average running speeds are now slower than in the era of steam
trains in the 1960s
 the practice of stopping all trains at all stations without distinction between
commuter and intercity stations is inconsistent with the practice on all other
rail routes in the country
 there are still speed restrictions as low as 5mph on a what is trumpeted as a
"new" railway
 fares are significantly higher than for comparable commuter journeys in the
greater Dublin area and when compared to opposing transport modes
 a commuter zone within the Galway area, as far south as Gort and as far east
as Ballinasloe, similar to those in the greater Dub and greater Cork areas was
proposed but clearly dismissed by IÉ
 when IÉ recently spoke of improving journey times on various intercity routes
there was NO mention of improving Galway-Limerick times
 it is still impossible to purchase a ticket online for the WRC
 it is still impossible to get any form of refreshment on the 2-hr journey
between the cities of Limerick and Galway
 there is no reference to commuter packages outside of Dublin on the
homepage of the Irish Rail website
 there is no signage or advertising at Galway or at stations on the WRC
promoting Galway commuter options or links to Dublin e.g. in the heritage
town of Gort
__________________________________________________________________
_______________________

http://www.westontrack.com/press-release-2012-01-19.pdf

Jokers

Xenophile · 22-01-2012 12:39am

Southsider1 wrote: »

As someone else said, it's done all wrong. They're talking of marketing a small stretch of line when they should be marketing the whole line ie from Galway right down to Cork/Kerry and from Galway right down to Rosslare (Yes! Re-open the Waterford - Rosslare stretch.

Also nobody mentions the vast scope for freight on the line too. It must be viable to run a long freighter between Galway and Rosslare and/or Cork harbours.

You just might be right..............and if diesel fuel becomes a lot more expensive in the long term........it might be a lot less expensive to ship non urgent material such as timber logs, to the medium density fiber board manufacturing company based in South Tipperary..........a short spur line would be needed, Bulmers cider factory is a next door neigbour to this facility, and as we know "the apple never falls far from the tree"...............Talks of going back into sugar production, rail would be the best method to transport sugar beet to a processing factory.

Your point of view should be treated with respect, I am sure nobody comes on Boards to make a genuine contribution just to be insulted.

dowlingm · 22-01-2012 5:42am

Re the failure to use ICRs - instead of a 120 seat 2-car set with 20 people aboard we should have a 220 seat set with the same 20 people aboard that will get to its destination at almost exactly the same speed (allowing for acceleration/deceleration/gearing differences)

ClovenHoof · 22-01-2012 4:59pm

DDigital wrote: »

Nearly 8 years ago now. Thanks for sharing. It's interesting that this press release touches on issues which are very relevant these days.

They called it right and if memory serves me correctly, they were very much alone at the time, until the tide eventually came in behind them.

It is that classic Irish story. Sane voices lost in the madness of the Parish Pump and the vested interests.

pigtown · 25-01-2012 8:18pm

West on Track seem to be concentrating on the commuter possibilities in Galway in their latest press release. Does anyone know why they never mention the greater commuter possibilities of Limerick?
There is the potential to open stations at Moyross, Corbally, and Parkway(Castletroy) on the Galway line, Annacotty and Ballysimon on the Nenagh line and Dooradoyle and Raheen on the disconnected Foynes line. For anyone who doesn't know Limerick these are almost all of the suburbs of the city.

corktina · 25-01-2012 8:27pm

well, they've changed their tune somewhat on Galway ...Galway didn't figure in their plans at all originally, they wanted a Limerick to Sligo service, connecting for Galway at Athenry.

ClovenHoof · 26-01-2012 2:19pm

Anyone know the names of these British and Irish trainspotters who were behind all this? Apart from the Priest and his Crew in Mayo.

These people and their actions have destroyed 2 operational train lines and created a new one which will probably lead to the end of the entire network.

The fact that much of this Western Rail Corridor religion was being pushed by people who do not reside or pay taxes here cannot be allowed to go forgotten.

ClovenHoof · 26-01-2012 2:22pm

pigtown wrote: »

West on Track seem to be concentrating on the commuter possibilities in Galway in their latest press release.

What a complete turnaound when their entire plan was based on serving the Marian Shrine at Knock.

Oranmore was an after-though with them for years and years. They were only interested in Tuam to Sligo in terms of the attention they gave to the WRC.

dermo88 · 27-01-2012 9:01am

Yes Clovenhoof. (This is the second edit of this post, because I am treading on thin ice)

There are names but herein lies the problem with the 'new' modernised moderation style.

The Luas to Tallaght in Germany would be called the Tallaghbahn
The Western Railway Corridor supporters and detractors can be as bad as the Taliban
If I name names, I might get a ban.

I have evidence here if its needed or wanted of debates going back to 2001, when Irishrailwaynews was founded, its following organisation, Platform11 which was founded to prevent the closure of Limerick Junction to Rosslare, Limerick to Ballybrophy, and aim to obtain a European standard of service on the network where appropriate.

It shows the rise, fall and decline of the Irish economy in parallel with the rejuvenation of the rail network, and this project, which has (sadly) failed, and placed in jeopardy the remainder of the rail network.

Ironically, Derek or DWCommuter, Westtip, myself and other posters here would be delighted and given congratulations to the supporters of the WRC had it succeeded. Unfortunately, the supporters of the Western Rail Corridor continue engaging in banning, mudslinging and general vilification of its detractors. Even more than that again, we would have actually apologised. Can you imagine that?

The bets known advocate is Brian Guckian, who is a county councillors dream. Lets take a look and analyse this deeper:

County councillor wants holiday or better known as a junket.
Along comes a railway preservationist who proposes what might be a worthwhile project such as:

Waterford to Dungarvan.
Waterford to New Ross.
Cavan and Leitrim Railway.

So county councillor and his other buddies get to go on a 'study group' to a country with more resources, more manpower, greater population densities, and more besides, all expenses paid. At least.....during the bubble years, we knew this, but nobody cared since there was so much money flying around Ireland.

Now the economy is 40% smaller than 2007 projections, so the resources are not there.

One who certainly was passionate and might be hanging around garaiste.ie was Alan Helfner from New Jersey. Like me, he emigrated.

The difference between his views and mine are this:

I subject them to the cold eye of financial analysis, look at the resources, and count the beans. Then conclude. Most of us with any sense do that. Its a bit of a Dr Todd Andrews approach, only not as brutal.

However.....their views are emotional, or sentimental, and not practical. They are Thomas the Tank engine views, the Father Dougal McGuire of the transportation world, where a constant reminder has to be given:

"The cows are small because they are far away"

As a teenager, I thought like that. Then I grew older, and had bills to pay, and taxes, and expenses. This was reality, not fantasy.

It would be extremely arrogant to say they are completely wrong. They might even be 20% correct, and if their ideas implemented correctly, they might even score 45%. But a stopped clock is correct twice a day, and an empty train is wrong most of the time, when those resources could be allocated better elsewhere.

corktina · 27-01-2012 9:15am

what a shame IRN sought to sanitise the subject by banning many opponents of the scheme. These dissedents have been proved to be right and IRN must have a goodly bit of egg on its face now.I believe most of those dissendents live in Ireland.

WHEN will WoT and IRN members come out into the open and discuss the WRC properley? Had they done that in the beginning , we might not have wasted over €100 million of Rail Investment that is sorely needed elsewhere.

dermo88 · 28-01-2012 8:34am

If you do want to observe the posts who are from the United Kingdom etc, my advice is - if you have a facebook account:

Join the group - "Save the Rosslare to Waterford rail line"

While the work they have done is pretty good, there is a slight problem. There is an element there which, while harmless in their own right, have a tendency to get sidetracked by crayons and fantasy.

This is dangerous for the network overall, since it detracts from more productive asset investment. Consequently, harm is caused, because a civil servant or politician is likely to take a look and say:

"Oh Christ, not this bunch again, do they have a life?"

As a result, projects such as Clonsilla to Navan, DART Underground, Dublin Airport, and more besides get sidetracked.

corktina · 28-01-2012 10:48am

I had a quick look there Dermo, almost nothing to do with the Rosslare to Waterford line, so I didnt bother joining

Transportuser09 · 28-01-2012 12:15pm

To be fair to IRN, there do appear to be quite a number of posts bemoaning the WRC apart from its defenders. I agree the well intentioned "Save the rail" Facebook group seems to be littered with random irrelavent stuff that only damages the cause (much like Ming and his "demands"). I still believe some lines have potential, Tuam-Athenry, Pace-Navan, etc... But this will never happen the way the cause is being "promoted". I weep for the future of rail growth in Ireland.

Hungerford · 28-01-2012 4:03pm

Meanwhile back in the real world...

NIR have begun using their high-capacity Class 4000 sets on Belfast-Derry route because the existing rolling stock was struggling to cope with passenger demand, even in the early afternoons.

The route continues to be a success despite a lack of online ticketing, catering service, 5mph speed restrictions in places and trains which stop at every station. It seems that demand may actually be driven by people wanting to travel. Very strange indeed.

foggy_lad · 28-01-2012 4:06pm

Hungerford wrote: »

Meanwhile back in the real world...

NIR have begun using their high-capacity Class 4000 sets on Belfast-Derry route because the existing rolling stock was struggling to cope with passenger demand, even in the early afternoons.

The route continues to be a success despite a lack of online ticketing, catering service, 5mph speed restrictions in places and trains which stop at every station. It seems that demand may actually be driven by people wanting to travel. Very strange indeed.

Because there are two busy bustling cities with several large urban centres in between! Ireland has no train lines which compare with the Derry-Belfast line.

dermo88 · 28-01-2012 5:04pm

Hungerford · 28-01-2012 11:07pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because there are two busy bustling cities with several large urban centres in between! Ireland has no train lines which compare with the Derry-Belfast line.

That's the point I was making - demand is influenced by people's desire to travel between the locations on the route not catering trolleys and the occasional speed restriction.

The problem with Limerick-Galway is that the demand doesn't seem to be there - possibly because it serves a collection of hamlets. The improvements suggested by West On Track effectively amount to moving the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Hotblack Desiato · 29-01-2012 1:25am

Yet more censorship on behalf of WOT - this forum is a sad joke.

-Chris- · 29-01-2012 10:34am

ninja900 wrote: »

Yet more censorship on behalf of WOT - this forum is a sad joke.

Please don't discuss moderation on-thread. If you've an issue, there are many avenues you can take - contacting a co-mod, contacting a Cmod, or going to Helpdesk/feedback (depending on your issue).

Thanks

LaFlammeRouge · 29-01-2012 2:16pm

Western rail activists condemn RTE ‘hatchet job’ on Limerick-Galway train

http://www.limerickleader.ie/community/western_rail_activists_condemn_rte_hatchet_job_on_limerick_galway_train_1_3457984

RAIL activists have condemned a Prime Time programme on the Western Rail Corridor as a “hatchet job” by Dublin metropolitan interests set against any further investment in the line.

West on Track said that by taking the Ennis to Athenry section of the line in isolation, RTE had failed to provide an accurate reflection of the numbers using the service between Limerick and Galway.

When former minister Noel Dempsey launched the new service at Colbert Station in 2010, he warned that people should use it to ensure its survival.

But in his contribution to the Prime Time programme, economist Colm McCarthy said that with an average of eight passengers travelling between Ennis and Athenry, each trip was being subsidised to the tune of €85 and it would be cheaper to take a taxi.

Moore McDowell, another member of the so-called Doheny and Nesbitt School of Economics, said there was never a sound business case for the investment and the Fianna Fail government had only funded the project to satisfy the need of people in the west for “toy train sets”.

But West on Track’s Colman Ó Raghallaigh has described such analysis as “seriously flawed”.

“The internationally accepted yardstick for the measurement of the performance of any rail service is the number of passengers who travel on that service at any point along the entire route until it terminates. Therefore, the notion that the Ennis-Athenry section of the railway alone is the yardstick for the performance of the railway is simply daft. Yet, Prime Time insisted on breaking up the WRC into pieces so that by singling out one section, it could claim that the entire WRC was somehow ‘underperforming’,” said Mr Ó Raghallaigh.

Iarnrod Eireann had confirmed that 250,000 passengers had used the Limerick-Galway service in its first 12 months but Prime Time had “failed to refer to this inconvenient piece of good news because it would have meant that Colm McCarthy’s risible statistic about eight people per train would have been shown to be false”. The opening of the station at Oranmore would further boost the overall numbers.

Seats on the Limerick-Galway train, Mr Ó Raghallaigh added, were more expensive than elsewhere and could not be purchased on-line. The modern rolling stock on other intercity services had not been used between the two cities and with speed limits of as low as five miles per hour on some stretches, it would have been faster to travel in the era of steam trains.

None of these issues had been put to Iarnrod Eireann by RTE, Mr Ó Raghallaigh said.

This must be the same crowd who massaged the Greek accounts. Lets extend the DART to Dingle and claim success to the IMF by showing them figures for the prexisting passengers.

Just found the "hatchet job" on youtube.