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Western Rail Corridor on Prime time now.

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24

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    #32
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,359 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Politicians and local lobbyists bandie about the word 'infrastructure' to excuse ludicrously parochial policies. The initial campaign for the western rail corridor was led by some priest who conducted a poll in which people were asked if they would use the service if it was opened. Needless to say everyone said that they would even though none of then was screened to see if they actually had a need to get from one point on the line to another. The numbers presented by the people lobbying for the service needless to say were grossly optimistic and devoid of any relationship to reality as borne out by the numbers (not) using the service.

    Ming Flanagan was in complete denial tonight, he was even rubbishing the numbers (8 per trip) until Miriam interrupted him to say that the numbers came from Iarnrod Eireann and of course he conveniently ignored the film that was broadcast before the discussion in which we saw almost empty carriages.

    When Maire Geoghehan-Quinn (then a FF TD for Galway West) was Minister for Transport, she justified the Shannon stopover on the basis that 'I passionately believed in regional infrastructure'. What that translated to was that if you were flying from Boston or New York to Dublin, you were forced to land and disembark at a pokey little airport with souvenier shops selling leprechauns and shillelaghs at 6 a.m. in the morning. Having established that there was no purpose to the stopover, you then had to reboard, take off and fly to Dublin, all the while cursing the stupid small-minded pricks who thought that forcing planes to land at Shannon had anything to do with 'infrastructure'.


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    #33
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    Is Athlone really that major?

    No, but Dublin is halfway up the east coast, so on average less far away from everywhere else than, say, Rosslare or Belfast.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #34
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Southsider1 wrote: »
    As someone else said, it's done all wrong. They're talking of marketing a small stretch of line when they should be marketing the whole line ie from Galway right down to Cork/Kerry and from Galway right down to Rosslare (Yes! Re-open the Waterford - Rosslare stretch.

    How long would Galway - Cork take, never mind Galway - Rosslare? Maybe OAPs would be willing to while away the day on such a trip, but they don't have to pay and have copious free time.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #35
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    IE should offer the line and rolling stock to West on Track for a reasonable rent, and see if they can make a go of it. I actually wish they'd succeed, but in reality there's no hope in hell.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #36
    Poxyshamrock
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Poxyshamrock


    If it had a proper speed limit, proper rolling stock and maybe a direct curve before Athenry, it may have succeeded! I know lots of students who go from Limerick to Galway (and vice versa) who tried it a few times and just said that it wasn't worth their time or money. It was slow and uncomfortable.


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    #37
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    coylemj wrote: »
    Ming Flanagan was in complete denial tonight, he was even rubbishing the numbers (8 per trip) until Miriam interrupted him to say that the numbers came from Iarnrod Eireann and of course he conveniently ignored the film that was broadcast before the discussion in which we saw almost empty carriages.

    He actually said 'but the 8 per day ignores pensioners' - well, duh, even if it does the pensioners aren't buying a ticket!

    Having established that there was no purpose to the stopover, you then had to reboard, take off and fly to Dublin, all the while cursing the stupid small-minded pricks who thought that forcing planes to land at Shannon had anything to do with 'infrastructure'.

    Really you couldn't make up the gob****eism that passes for policy in this country.

    Of course the more savvy passengers figured out that if they were going to have to take a needless stopover, it might as well be in London or Amsterdam giving them a wider choice of destinations and timings and likely lower fares as well.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #38
    DDigital
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭DDigital


    So Thomas Sheridan and Derek Wheeler from Platform 11 were actually right in 2004. It was useless, irrelevant, and a waste of time, consultants and resources. I don't have time to revisit all the media coverage that was initially started by the aforementioned, but they were the first to say that it was a dead end deal. Using the article below as an an example, I'm not convinced about Navan or Athlone-Mullingar, but the reference to the endangered Limerick - Waterford line is very close to home at this stage in the proceedings.
    Rail pressure

    THE national rail transport pressure group, Platform II, has been accused of ‘a terrible act of sabotage’ following its stated opposition to the re-opening of the Western Rail Corridor, linking Sligo with Galway and Limerick. Fr. Micheál McGréil, who has campaigned for the re-opening of the Sligo-Limerick line for almost twenty years, said he was saddened and disappointed by the opposition of Platform II to the project. ‘I understand the group is made up of about five people and their stance is divisive and narrow-minded. It feeds into the centralist mind set which queries everything that is planned for outside Dublin’ he said. Platform II maintains that the estimated 300 million euro it would cost to reopen and upgrade the link along a mostly disused line could be better spent on other rail projects, such as the Cork-Midleton, Dublin-Navan and Athlone-Mullingar lines. The group’s spokesman, Mr. Derek Wheeler, said 300 million euro would go a long way towards securing the future of existing regional rail routes such as the Limerick-Waterford line. Mr. Wheeler said that Dublin remained the only capital city in the EU still without a rail link of any kind to its airport.


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    #39
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Poxyshamrock wrote: »
    If it had a proper speed limit, proper rolling stock and maybe a direct curve before Athenry, it may have succeeded! I know lots of students who go from Limerick to Galway (and vice versa) who tried it a few times and just said that it wasn't worth their time or money. It was slow and uncomfortable.

    Speeds are low on IE in general, but are going to be particularly low on a Victorian light rail alignment. Sure, you could build a straighter WRC line with higher speeds but it would cost serious money. And if Dublin-Cork's future competing against coaches on the motorway doesn't look great (without major investment on improving speeds, which isn't looking likely) what hope does the WRC have?

    Cork-Dublin-Belfast may survive. But that will be a political decision based on how much they are willing to subsidise it. It'll never be economic short of ripping apart either IE or the motorway network. I wouldn't bet money on anything other than C-D-B and commuter rail surviving 20 years from now. Maybe much less.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #40
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    ninja900 wrote: »
    How long would Galway - Cork take, never mind Galway - Rosslare? Maybe OAPs would be willing to while away the day on such a trip, but they don't have to pay and have copious free time.

    Actually, even OAPs wouldn't bother. They'd have to stump up for an overnight - no possibility of doing an out and back in a day.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #41
    purplepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    dloob wrote: »
    Average of 8 per train.


    €100 plus million to rebuild & how much per year to run? And they close & will continue to close lines with much higher passenger numbers!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:


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    #42
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Ming's point is that it could be run a lot better than it currently is. I think he's probably right.

    Pigs will fly first, but as should have been done with Rosslare-Waterford I'd like to see a group of experts devise a timetable and services to maximise patronage. If that doesn't work, mothball it.


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    #43
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    of course Ming is right on that point.

    My local station is Banteer on the line to Killarney as you know a top tourist destination, Tralee with its races , shops and colleges and Farranfore with its airport.

    Never once in 25 years have I seen publiicity material suggesting using the train to avail of any of these.

    we all know IE don't run the railway the way they should ,so it's a bit naive to be using that as an excuse for the low patronage on the WRC.

    As for Cork to Galway services, well, how many people use the existing Cork to Limerick (with a change at the Junction) trains? Not many I'll bet.


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    #44
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The problem is all the marketing, new trains and faster alignments in the world won't change the reality that such rail lines are fundamentally flawed and it would simply be dumping more money into the pit.

    With the future of intercity rail travel in general looking very shaky, including the premier lines like Cork - Dublin, it seems crazy that the WRC was even built and that people are seriously saying that even more money should be wasted on it.


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    #45
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    corktina wrote: »
    the journey time can't be shortened because they simply didn't re-build the line to a high enough modern standard and in any case journey times will get WORSE when the two new stations planned are opened.

    As for tea and coffee, are you serious? Is the line not costing us enough already without adding to the losses?
    A kettle, a couple of tea bags and a few mugs beside the power point on a 2700 wouldn't cost much.


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    #46
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    corktina wrote: »
    My local station is Banteer on the line to Killarney as you know a top tourist destination, Tralee with its races , shops and colleges and Farranfore with its airport.

    Do you mean human races ? :)

    Tralee racecourse closed down a couple of years ago. :(


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    #47
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    really? oh well, I was only trying to talk up Tralee to make it sound a vibrant interesting place to visit.


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    #48
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    corktina wrote: »
    really? oh well, I was only trying to talk up Tralee to make it sound a vibrant interesting place to visit.

    It was back in the 1970s. :D


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    #49
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    It wouldn't look good at all on the books if this line was to scrapped / scaled down after pumping over 100 million of into it's reconstruction.

    Would it not make sense to preserve it for private heritage railways during the summer months?


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    #50
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    No volunteers, no stock, no tourists...(or nearly so)

    The one useful function it does serve is to make sure that no more lines like it are built. Unfortunately that is at the cost of Waterford to Rosslare and soon no doubt Limerick to Ballybrophy and Waterford to Limerick Junction.


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    #51
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Never mind lads, Crusheen station will be built soon and sure that will be the saving of it all. :rolleyes:


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    #52
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Never mind lads, Crusheen station will be built soon and sure that will be the saving of it all. :rolleyes:
    What about the village, it could also do with its independence from townies. :p


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    #53
    OurLadyofKnock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 558 ✭✭✭OurLadyofKnock


    100% vidication.

    You should of listened to Platform11 back in the day.

    You have killed 3 rail lines by supporting West-on-Track and IRN.

    Only yourselves to blame.

    Bye Bye.


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    #54
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    OLoK - who's this "you" business?


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    #55
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    what's the gist of it?

    any mention of the massaging of passenger numbers yet?
    Watching the primetime video it looks like locals along the route were invited to take part! "just an average Thursday afternoon" I doubt it very much
    dloob wrote: »
    Well it seems to provide a nice picnic destination for the 4 pensioners that use it.
    those pensioners were invited or paid IMHO just like the disabled person seen being wheeled onto the train. it looks like the only massaging of passenger numbers on that train was done by primetime!
    Karsini wrote: »
    They are using those too, but usually marshalled with a 2700 to make a 3-piece set.
    The extra capacity is needed for the rushour:D
    Judgement Day wrote:
    Why on earth should it be possible to buy an online ticket for the WRC when you still can't do it on the Connolly/Rosslare Harbour route? :rolleyes:

    IE%2BJOURNEY.JPG
    It is very possible to buy an online ticket if you look for a ticket on a train that has not already departed!
    6034073


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    #56
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    Would it not make more sense to use an IE DMU 2750 on lines where loadings are poor?

    At least an IE DMU 2750 is a standalone carriage.

    In theory, shouldn't their operation be half the cost a 2 car IE DMU 2700 set?


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    #57
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Oh god not another 2750 question.

    The level crossing operators, the signalmen, the maintenance people and THE DRIVER don't give a damn whether the train is one car or eight.

    (also IE don't want to run 2750s alone as they only have one engine and if that goes it's dead in the water)


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    #58
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    patrickbrophy18 wrote: »
    Would it not make more sense to use an IE DMU 2750 on lines where loadings are poor?

    At least an IE DMU 2750 is a standalone carriage.

    In theory, shouldn't their operation be half the cost a 2 car IE DMU 2700 set?
    the running costs of the actual train are low enough that it makes little difference whether it is 1 2 or 3 car DMU's which operate


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    #59
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    foggy_lad - how right you are and I stand corrected. However, it is still impossible to book an online ticket on 1 Up and 2 Down trains between Enniscorthy and Connolly - can you explain that one? :confused:

    On the Limerick/Ballybrophy branch it appears that only 1 train has online booking - why?


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    #60
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    foggy_lad - how right you are and I stand corrected. However, it is still impossible to book an online ticket on 1 Up and 2 Down trains between Enniscorthy and Connolly - can you explain that one? :confused:

    On the Limerick/Ballybrophy branch it appears that only 1 train has online booking - why?
    Irish Rail don't have the competence to operate a proper on-line booking system and the company they outsource to are obviously not up to the task either!

    but possibly has more to do with the ticket vending machines where you print off your ticket being locked away for the first train of the day?


    But back to the WRC, did someone say they had increased to 6 services between the two cities Monday-Saturday? it is still only 5 direct trains a day each way!


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    #61
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    dowlingm wrote: »
    (also IE don't want to run 2750s alone as they only have one engine and if that goes it's dead in the water)
    So will your average loco. If they were serviced right with preventative maintenance why should they break down? They can manage single units in the UK and abroad. If one dose break down all they have to so is wait for the next multiple unit to arrive and hook it up (Or dose that involve several members of staff? )


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