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Western Rail Corridor on Prime time now.

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  • 17-01-2012 10:49pm
    #1
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭


    Interesting. :)


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    #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,476 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    what's the gist of it?

    any mention of the massaging of passenger numbers yet?


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    #3
    dloob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭dloob


    Well it seems to provide a nice picnic destination for the 4 pensioners that use it.


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    #4
    dloob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭dloob


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    what's the gist of it?

    any mention of the massaging of passenger numbers yet?

    Average of 8 per train.


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    #5
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    The gist:

    Colman: It's in it's infancy. It'll build on the numbers. It's for the future. We're serious. It's not a toy railway.

    McCarthy: We could give it's passengers free taxi rides and it would be cheaper. Infrastructure needs a good business case.

    The tone overall seems on the negative side. Lots of shots of empty fields and it started with pensioners having their train picnics.


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    #6
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    I'm not usually a great fan of Colm McCarthy's cut throat economics, but it's a very firmly based opinion in this case.


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    #7
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    what's the gist of it?

    any mention of the massaging of passenger numbers yet?
    e80 per passenger :eek:

    An average of 8 passengers per train throughout the year.

    It would be cheaper for them to put in two taxies for each run than use the train.


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    #8
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    noelfirl wrote: »
    I'm not usually a great fan of Colm McCarthy's cut throat economics, but it's a very firmly based opinion in this case.

    Who is the idiot with the striped shirt and beard?


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    #9
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    Ming (shirt and beard) arguing that increased usage of Athenry > Galway section justifies the Athenry > Ennis section. Also the little things, like the lack of the aul cuppa.


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    #10
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,346 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I am watching it now and get this.

    Colm McCarthy just said that 'there are only 8 people per day travel between Craughwell and Athenry. That is enough to cover two taxi loads. It is a just colossal waste of taxpayer's money'.

    My word, if that continues, the loss of €38 million euro for IE for 2010 would go breathtaking high level.

    Anyone watching Luke 'Ming' Flanagan now. Anyone might him understand now, But I think he is talking utter rubbish IMO. He said that there are many, many more people are using it in Athenry.

    Does anyone believe him?


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    #11
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    It not only needs a restaurant car.

    It should have a sleeping carriage too as it takes so bloody long to get from Galway to Limerick.


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    #12
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    noelfirl wrote: »
    Ming (shirt and beard) arguing that increased usage of Athenry > Galway section justifies the Athenry > Ennis section. Also the little things, like the lack of the aul cuppa.

    Is the rolling stock "clapped out" and "unwanted" and the bearded one claims?

    Have only seen them from a distance and they look "newish"...


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    #13
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    Leo has no intention of closing it or scaling it down. Ming making out that the railway is vital, traffic clogged up in Galway, no way to get "to the West" (??) unless you have a car.

    Ming got the last line:
    "You were wrong about the Luas, you'll be wrong about the WRC". Hmmm...


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    #14
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Is the rolling stock "clapped out" and "unwanted" and the bearded one claims?.

    I'm not sure the exact class, but basically they are repainted variants of Commuter stock. Clapped out and unwanted may be a stretch, but others have anecdotally reported of them being unsuitable for Intercity services.


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    #15
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    They're the 2700 class railcars. Intended for commuter services in and around Dublin and not really suitable for Intercity use, but that hasn't stopped IE using them on the Mallow-Tralee and Dublin-Rosslare routes.


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    #16
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Karsini wrote: »
    They're the 2700 class railcars. Intended for commuter services in and around Dublin and not really suitable for Intercity use, but that hasn't stopped IE using them on the Mallow-Tralee and Dublin-Rosslare routes.
    What about the Double cab 2750 units? Is there a problem with these?


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    What about the Double cab 2750 units? Is there a problem with these?

    They are using those too, but usually marshalled with a 2700 to make a 3-piece set.


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    #18
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Ming flanagan has a very valid point IE have made no attempt to do anything with this and they really don't care as it so far away from their fat cat managers in Dublin that they aren't bothered.

    The service should be oriented on a Galway to Cork route and forget the Limerick to Galway mentality. Run it from Galway down to Cork providing connections to Dublin & Waterford at Limerick Junction and again to Kerry to at Mallow Junction. The route on is own is unviable because there is no attempt made to run it properly. The arguement at the moment is the same as saying they should not have built the Cork-Dublin motorway through rural Tipperary because only a few people live there.

    I know lots of people who have to endure the N20 Cork-Limerick road and most would take the train from Cork to Limerick, Ennis and Galway. Instead for example if you live in Killarney for eg. to travel from here to Galway you should have to travel to Mallow first and connect there, connect again in Limerick junction and again in Limerick! Its a joke!


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    #19
    pawrick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭pawrick


    If the journey time was shortened more people might use it otherwise the bus is quicker and more comfortable. Tea/coffee service actually does make a difference also when comparing to a bus.

    All that said - it doesn't appear economical but is it a community service and could also help with tourism if properly marketed and with on line tickets.

    Also perhaps offer a free service for 6 months to get people used to the idea of using a train in an area where the car is king it's not like they are swimming in money from what they earn so far on the route?


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    #20
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    It all comes to transport 'planning' in this country being of the back of the envelope variety done by people whose knowledge would fit on the back of a postage stamp.


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    #21
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    But have not WoT put out loads and loads of publicity on this line? Why would IE promote this line when they don't really promote ANY of their lines in a meaningful way? Whats more they are actively closing some lines by stealth at thsi time.


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    #22
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    pawrick wrote: »
    If the journey time was shortened more people might use it otherwise the bus is quicker and more comfortable. Tea/coffee service actually does make a difference also when comparing to a bus.

    All that said - it doesn't appear economical but is it a community service and could also help with tourism if properly marketed and with on line tickets.

    Also perhaps offer a free service for 6 months to get people used to the idea of using a train in an area where the car is king it's not like they are swimming in money from what they earn so far on the route?

    You won't get far with ideas like that - thinking outside the box is much talked about in Ireland but rarely acted on.


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    #23
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    pawrick wrote: »
    If the journey time was shortened more people might use it otherwise the bus is quicker and more comfortable. Tea/coffee service actually does make a difference also when comparing to a bus.

    All that said - it doesn't appear economical but is it a community service and could also help with tourism if properly marketed and with on line tickets.

    Also perhaps offer a free service for 6 months to get people used to the idea of using a train in an area where the car is king it's not like they are swimming in money from what they earn so far on the route?

    the journey time can't be shortened because they simply didn't re-build the line to a high enough modern standard and in any case journey times will get WORSE when the two new stations planned are opened.

    As for tea and coffee, are you serious? Is the line not costing us enough already without adding to the losses?


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    #24
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,346 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Leo Varadkar said that the WRC does not recieve any EU funding. With a problem like that on it's back, if the reverse happened the line would not be in so much trouble with the NTA as it is now.

    I would suggest that if the figures with the NTA and IE are completely contradicting each other, The NTA should have the absolutely the final word on it's current situation as with any other transport project. It is independent of the Transport Ministers, either Varadkar or Kelly, as it advises them on the full story on these projects as it happens.

    They have done plenty of committee meetings before, they should have the raw data at hand to show that the minister can make his decision.

    I do question of the unavailability of the EU funding for the project though. I do think that the low population numbers and low infrastructure quality does not justify making the funding not available. The west of Ireland in general is crying out for lots of investment no matter how big or small it is. Even though the majority of the land is agricultural, there is some big money to made out of it. It was unfair to let that land degrade itself during the time when Ireland had tons of money.

    I mean 'Ming' Flanagan was talking about the problems of traffic in Galway City. I mean there are going to be buses from BE that are going to solve this problem anyway. It makes what he said on Prime Time not making one shred of difference IMO. The train station in Athenry and Galway is accessible by both bus and train.

    Or although, I could be wrong.

    There is a new thread about new BE buses if you're interested.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=887


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    #25
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,579 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    As I see it (from an operational perspective) there are several problems:

    1) Line speeds - there are still a myriad of temporary speed restrictions in place along the line thereby hindering any hope of competitiveness

    2) Lack of connectivity - out of 6 southbound trains on weekdays, the following are the wait times at Limerick to travel further south:
    0620 - 25 minutes
    0940 - 17 minutes
    1210 - 48 minutes
    1430 - 31 minutes
    1730 - 43 minutes

    Only one of those is approaching anything acceptable. After that there is either a 20-30 minute wait at Limerick Junction to add to these waiting times.

    Similarly, northbound the waiting times at Limerick into trains for Galway are:
    0935 - 20 minutes
    1155 - 40 minutes
    1410 - 5 minutes
    1805 - 62 minutes
    1930 - 20 minutes

    How can that be deemed operating the service in a manner conducive to developing customers?

    3) The complete inability to buy a ticket online - daft. This needs addressing asap.

    Leaving aside the fundamental questions of whether the line should have been reopened in the first place or not, the inability of IE to timetable, market and operate the service in a business like manner is frankly pathetic.

    Personally I would view the 2700s as adequate rolling stock for the route - they are only 15 years old - not quite clapped out as Ming suggested.

    At the end of the day, my personal view is that if IE are not interested in coming up with services on this line, the Limerick Junction/Waterford line and the Nenagh branch that actually are meaningful and have the potential to develop the routes, then the lines (and the Limerick/Dublin direct services) should be given to another operator that would be capable of doing it.


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    #26
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Why on earth should it be possible to buy an online ticket for the WRC when you still can't do it on the Connolly/Rosslare Harbour route? :rolleyes:

    IE%2BJOURNEY.JPG


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    #27
    pawrick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭pawrick


    corktina wrote: »

    As for tea and coffee, are you serious? Is the line not costing us enough already without adding to the losses?

    I am actually (can vending machines be put on a train or is that a burn risk?). Anyhow I was taking the entire route in to consideration not just new middle part which has apparently a lot fewer people.

    It was poorly organised by the looks of it and probably shouldn't have gone ahead in preference to an improved bus service but it's there now so why not try to improve the service since it's not like it will be shut in the morning with all the investment which went in?


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    #28
    Southsider1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Southsider1


    As someone else said, it's done all wrong. They're talking of marketing a small stretch of line when they should be marketing the whole line ie from Galway right down to Cork/Kerry and from Galway right down to Rosslare (Yes! Re-open the Waterford - Rosslare stretch.

    Also nobody mentions the vast scope for freight on the line too. It must be viable to run a long freighter between Galway and Rosslare and/or Cork harbours.


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    #29
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    pawrick wrote: »
    It was poorly organised by the looks of it and probably shouldn't have gone ahead in preference to an improved bus service but it's there now so why not try to improve the service since it's not like it will be shut in the morning with all the investment which went in?

    Why not can it?

    With two bus services already serving Galway, BE hourly, Citylink Bi-hourly in significantly faster times, why continue to waste €3 million per annum on this?

    Why not instead give 500,000 to BE and citylink to put even more buses on and spend the other 2.5 million on other much more worthy projects in the west like the road projects Leo mentioned or hospitals (keeping them open) or schools?


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    #30
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Southsider1 wrote: »
    Also nobody mentions the vast scope for freight on the line too. It must be viable to run a long freighter between Galway and Rosslare and/or Cork harbours.

    More fantasy drivel. There is absolutely no scope for rail freight in Ireland. Moving freight by road is vastly cheaper, quicker and more flexible then by rail.

    You literally couldn't get any country in the world that is less suitable for rail freight then Ireland.

    - An island no more then 300 miles in length.
    - Major city and urban area in the middle of the country.
    - Little or no heavy industry.
    - Very well connected by major motorway network.
    - All major population centres have ports.


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    #31
    Jehuty42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    bk wrote: »
    -Major city and urban area in the middle of the country.

    Is Athlone really that major?


This discussion has been closed.
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