Gaybo does it again. Is there no stopping dinosaur windbag?

Overheal · 30-12-2011 2:47am

Gaybo should take a psych course, he'd know there is more than one form of punishment/training to employ. The police in my jurisdiction never seem to act the same from one month to the next. Always in new/old spots, and you can never count on them being there or not being there. Hell the one time I tried to speed on my local road to work after I spilled coffee on myself and had to double back, guess which ****er decided to show up after a 6 week absence? He couldn't prove anything, he just followed me for a mile. But still, I got the message. There's a lot more to enforcement than the number of shirts you have.

In every single year since he was appointed, road fatalities have reduced.

incorrect re-read your data. 2005, 1971, 1972, 1978, etc etc etc. While it has trended down largely you can't make that claim it's been every year. You can't even make the claim it was all attributable to him either but I know you hadnt done that.

44leto · 30-12-2011 2:50am

Zen65 wrote: »

Which bad decision-making are you talking about?

Nobody can deny that since he took up his position in the Road Safety Authority there has been improved enforcement by Gardaí, and the statistics would indicate that this has made a very significant difference to the rate of fatality on the road:

Year Fatalities
2011 185
2010 212
2009 238
2008 279
2007 338
2006 368
2005 396
2004 374
2003 335
2002 376
2001 411
2000 415
1999 413
1998 458
1997 472
1996 453
1995 437
1994 404
1993 431
1992 415
1991 445
1990 478
1989 460
1988 463
1987 462
1986 387
1985 410
1984 465
1983 535
1982 533
1981 572
1980 564
1979 614
1978 628
1977 583
1976 525
1975 586
1974 594
1973 592
1972 640
1971 576
1970 540

It's nonsense to point to the economy as being the reason for the reduced rate of accidents; there was no noticeable decline during previous recessions in the country. The difference is down to roads being improved and enforcement by Gardaí. Remember that the previous head of the RSA resigned because he was not getting support from government. When GB was appointed he stated publicly that he was not an expert in the field, but that he was determined to hold the government accountable for their actions, and if they failed to act as they had promised then he would publicly "out" them.

And in fairness, since his appointment they delivered the dedicated Traffic Corps, and enforcement was improved, and the penalty points system was put in place and people took notice and changed their driving habits.

In every single year since he was appointed, road fatalities have reduced. That can't be dumb luck. You don't need to like the man, but you have to admit he has got results. How he has done so is entirely down to his skill at getting people to commit to taking action, and then using his skill and position as a respected celebrity to ensure that they honour that.

And starting a post in which your primary complaint is his age, well frankly that's just immature and ill-conceived.

Be at peace,

Z

Post of the week, no arguing with that, discussion ended.

Zen65 · 30-12-2011 2:59am

Overheal wrote: »

incorrect re-read your data. 2005, 1971, 1972, 1978, etc etc etc.

I'm a bit old and forgetful, but I'm fairly sure he was appointed in 2006?

The only years of relevance to him then are 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Z

Overheal · 30-12-2011 3:01am

BAH then dont show me all those numbers like i live there or give too many ****s!

Zen65 · 30-12-2011 3:06am

Overheal wrote: »

BAH then dont show me all those numbers like i live there or give too many ****s!

No worries. I understand that to achieve over 30,000 posts you sometimes have to post in threads where you haven't read all the facts or give enough ****s to understand the arguments being made.

No offence intended; my form is a little over-sensitive when the elders are being attacked (not by you, I know!!).

Hell I'm not even nearly as old as Gaybo, I should not be so quick to be grumpy.

Be at peace,

Z

Overheal · 30-12-2011 3:58am

Zen65 wrote: »

No worries. I understand that to achieve over 30,000 posts you sometimes have to post in threads where you haven't read all the facts or give enough ****s to understand the arguments being made.

Hey now to have as many interests as I do sometimes you need to skim a little

You'll know when I get serious when my arguments turn into essays and I make heads spin.

Victor · 30-12-2011 5:00am

Spread · 30-12-2011 6:32am

Zen65 wrote: »

Which bad decision-making are you talking about?
..................................................................................................
..................................................................................................

When greed clouded his judgement ............... first believing a con artist and then, many moons later, believing that he was part of a winning syndicate in the stock market. He hasn't lost his arrogance but he no longer speaks condescendingly of the lower orders. From the chair of the Late Late to the gimp of Ozymandias.

jive · 30-12-2011 6:56am

Getting so sick of all this road safety bullshít you'd swear the roads were war zones. Fair enough, have an ad campaign run on RTE year round to keep everyone on their toes. The roads are laced with speed vans now as well. The numbers of people dying are very low these days especially considering how many of those deaths are suicides. There are far bigger killers out there that don't get a look in due to everyone being so proud about our magical road safety record.

He's certainly done a good job, but there are far more important things to turn our attentions to given how low the road death figures have gotten.

Victor · 30-12-2011 8:53am

jive wrote: »

There are far bigger killers out there that don't get a look in due to everyone being so proud about our magical road safety record.

1969-1998 during the Troubles, about 3,500 people were killed. In the same time 20,000 died on the roads in Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Worldwide, every year 500,000 people die on the roads.

Gophur · 30-12-2011 9:51am

Gay Byrne is the Chairman of the RSA, he does not have an executive role. He is the mouthpiece of the organisation.

Road fatalities are decreasing, granted, but too much credit is being given to and taken by the RSA. We have much safer cars ( until that ridiculous CO2 policy put thousands of too-small cars on our roads) and a hugely improved road network. Look, for example, at the reduction in fatalities between Kells and Dublin, since the M3 opened? One fatality, and that was a man hitch-hiking in the fog.

pow wow · 30-12-2011 11:22am

Zen65 wrote: »

Nobody can deny that since he took up his position in the Road Safety Authority there has been improved enforcement by Gardaí, and the statistics would indicate that this has made a very significant difference to the rate of fatality on the road:

...

In every single year since he was appointed, road fatalities have reduced. That can't be dumb luck.

The only thing those stats say is that the number of fatalities has fallen. You can make any number of assumptions about why that's the case but nothing in the actual figures can make the kind of links you are.

Samba · 30-12-2011 11:42am

Peoples views on the stats are too crude and simplistic and the RSA have failed at the most elementary level, where the bad driving starts.

The driving test here in Ireland is grossly inadequate.

Fuinseog · 30-12-2011 11:48am

Spread wrote: »

Gaybo again at crossed swords with road statistics/gardai.
Is there any antidote for this old bore's press releases?
Given his penchant for bad decision making - putting all his eggs in one basket, should this old dinosaur be allowed to head the road safety organization?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gaybos-warning-on-road-safety-crude-says-senior-garda-2975375.html

surely you mean saint greybo, the man who single handedly modernised ireland

Fuinseog · 30-12-2011 11:50am

Gophur wrote: »

Gay Byrne is the Chairman of the RSA, he does not have an executive role. He is the mouthpiece of the organisation.

Road fatalities are decreasing, granted, but too much credit is being given to and taken by the RSA. We have much safer cars ( until that ridiculous CO2 policy put thousands of too-small cars on our roads) and a hugely improved road network. Look, for example, at the reduction in fatalities between Kells and Dublin, since the M3 opened? One fatality, and that was a man hitch-hiking in the fog.

he is not much of a mouth piece. you never hear from him.

stovelid · 30-12-2011 12:01pm

The recession probably means that loads of mongs in the 18-25 age bracket are now digging roads in England rather than tearing around the roads here.

ottostreet · 30-12-2011 12:41pm

The RSA should be shot for that safe cross code ad. I felt my brain turn slightly mushy watching it.

44leto · 30-12-2011 3:15pm

I was going down Collins Avenue yesterday and a biker hoored past me rather dangerously. Then about 50 metres from me I seen a flash from a van (a speed trap van). I broke and slowed right down.

Thanx to whoever the biker was, he may have saved me 2 points and 80euro.

But really, although there is a school there, it was a public holiday, that speed van IMO could be better placed to contribute significantly to road safety.

BUT perhaps if they place them where they know they will catch people, perhaps that discourages speeding everywhere. Going by that bikers overtaking I would say he has a good few points already, if not some already accident scars.

--Kaiser-- · 30-12-2011 3:27pm

Why is the chairman of the RSA a man who a) hasn't passed a driving test and b) admitted to drink driving a lot in the past?

mikom · 30-12-2011 3:37pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Why is the chairman of the RSA a man who a) hasn't passed a driving test and b) admitted to drink driving a lot in the past?

Carrying on the fine tradition started by Mary Harney as minister for "health".

Hifiman · 30-12-2011 3:40pm

I think the RSA may be a little miffed by the fact that since the drink drive limit was reduced in October - the death rate has actually gone up. (Three more killed in November 2011 compared to the same month last year while December 2011 looks like having twice the number of deaths as December 2010.) If this trend continues into the new year there'll be red faces all round.

The RSA invested a huge amount of their time and energy towards reducing the limit despite the fact that the big drop in road fatalities happened while the higher limit was in operation. (The UK which still has the higher limit is one of the best practice countries in Europe when it comes to road safety.)

There are several theories as to why lower limits aren't the magic bullet the RSA hoped it would be. One is that Garda time and resources is wasted on relatively low-level offenders. Another, as the Canadian Traffic Research Foundation discovered, is that simply having a limit and enforcing it, is much more important than the actual level of the limit.

Here's their conclusion - you can read all 120 pages here:

http://www.tirf.ca/publications/PDF_publications/BAC_Limits.pdf

Indeed, simply having and enforcing a

per se BAC limit is an efficient and effective means of dealing with the problem. The actual numerical value of the limit may be of relatively little importance compared to the policies, programs and procedures that have been implemented to]support it. The function of a BAC limit may be to inform the public that the consumption of alcohol beyond a certain point is considered illegal and dangerous when combined with driving. The specific point at which driving after drinking crosses the line between acceptable
and unacceptable behaviour may be of relatively little consequence.

... our review of the evaluation literature failed to provide strong, consistent and unqualified support for lowering BAC limits. At best, the results are mixed and themethodological weaknesses in the studies raise questions about the robustness and veracity of the evidence.

later12 · 30-12-2011 3:42pm

Gophur wrote: »

Gay Byrne is the Chairman of the RSA, he does not have an executive role. He is the mouthpiece of the organisation.

That's not a very good summing up of a chairman's role.

I'm not sure what the exact arrangements are in the RSA, but I have no reason to assume it different to any other public authority whereby chairmen do have a role in overseeing the activities of the authority or organisation, and in assessing the efficacy of the work of that organisation or body.

To suggest a chairman is just a mouthpiece is incorrect. How many people would let Sean FitzPatrick off the hook for Anglo, since he was only the Chairman of Anglo since 2005, not the CEO.

Zen65 · 30-12-2011 3:57pm

Spread wrote: »

When greed clouded his judgement ............... first believing a con artist and then, many moons later, believing that he was part of a winning syndicate in the stock market. He hasn't lost his arrogance but he no longer speaks condescendingly of the lower orders. From the chair of the Late Late to the gimp of Ozymandias.

So you're referring to two financial matters in his private life (neither of which had a detrimental impact on anybody else), one of which was 25 years ago, and from that you've deduced he is not competent now to be chairman of the RSA?

What about the many wise decisions he made, many of which had a positive impact on Irish society?

It's utter nonsense to make a connection between his private finances and his current role which does not involve any financial responsibility. Your OP was simply an ageist rant.

I do agree he is arrogant, and always has been. I don't need to like the man to acknowledge that under his tenure the RSA has been a success.

Z

_Kaiser_ · 30-12-2011 4:21pm

As a complete side-note to this, I saw something on the M50 today that nearly made me crash the car in disbelief!

A gantry sign with big orange writing - "KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING" :eek::eek::p

shannon_tek · 30-12-2011 4:28pm

Well lets be Glad we dont live in india

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DGS6fliBeg

AugustusMinimus · 30-12-2011 4:38pm

Victor wrote: »

The downward curve seems to have started before the formation of the RSA and Garda Traffic Corps.

A very simplistic graph which completely ignores the following variants

- Improvements in the road network
- Improvements to car safety technology
- Less driver-miles due to the recession
- Random breath testing

mcwhirter · 30-12-2011 4:39pm

shannon_tek wrote: »

Well lets be Glad we dont live in india

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DGS6fliBeg

Not too sure about that. I think it was Hammond that stated, 'look it hasn't any tail lights' referring to a lorry during night driving.

I had to laugh or was it cry when low behold while driving yesterday during an evening of heavy rain, that what was in front of me but a tractor pulling a trailor with guess what.. no tail lights on it.

And as for Gaybo, he has helped but the much improved road network is the main reason for less deaths imho.

AugustusMinimus · 30-12-2011 4:41pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Why is the chairman of the RSA a man who a) hasn't passed a driving test and b) admitted to drink driving a lot in the past?

It's laughable. Only in Ireland.

dr.fuzzenstein · 30-12-2011 4:59pm

I'd say Garda numbers being down will only have an effect on sales of breakfast roles in the shops, I don't see them doing anything besides that.

Zen65 · 30-12-2011 5:01pm

pow wow wrote: »

The only thing those stats say is that the number of fatalities has fallen. You can make any number of assumptions about why that's the case but nothing in the actual figures can make the kind of links you are.

I didn't make links other than to quote the statistics. The problem is that for somebody in GB's position there will never be a direct cause-and-effect observable, except for this one thing:

GB was asked to take up the role after the minister at the time had been publicly embarrassed by the retirement of the previous RSA Chairman, who had cited failure to deliver on the promises made by the Dept of Transport. GB accepted the appointment on the proviso that the Department would honour their commitments on enforcement of rules regarding speeding and Blood Alcohol Concentration. The minister was seen to have saved face by appointing an outspoken chairman, but he was also now bound to take the matter more seriously than before, because there was no doubting that GB could swing public opinion very easily against any politician, so his selection for the role was a double-edged sword.

Following his appointment random testing for BAC was introduced and the number of dedicated Gardaí on traffic duties was increased, as was the number of speed cameras. There is plenty of direct evidence to show that enforcement of Road Traffic laws achieves results, and another poster here has already cited the Canadian study which is considered by safety professionals as among the most comprehensive studies to show that enforcement ('hard') rather than attitude ('soft') gives the best results for safety improvement.

In taking the stand he took at the outset, GB distinguished himself from (say) the Financial Regulator who let the country's finances go to hell while enjoying the high life. I didn't claim that GB's appointment is the sole reason for the fall in deaths, because it isn't.

GB's personal responsibility for the decrease in road deaths is not entirely unlike Giovanni Trapattoni's claim to responsibility for the recent success of the Irish soccer team. The success is based on the strategy they have adopted rather than any day-to-day operational impact. There is no doubt that following GB's arrival no minister has dared (until now) to cut back directly on the Garda Traffic Corps for fear of being held to ridicule by GB. GB does ridicule very well. It will be interesting to see how this battle plays out now that there is a general acceptance of the country's desperate financial state.

Z

Gaybo does it again. Is there no stopping dinosaur windbag?

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