Dublin Bus Network Review

thomasj · 16-12-2011 4:02pm

Karsini wrote: »

I see some directional signage has gone up in Fairview now, around Marino Mart and the Malahide Road. Any idea what route is up next?

The 128 merges with the 15

BenShermin · 16-12-2011 4:53pm

Going mad I couldn't get a photo but I've actually just seen a 78a Westbound on the Coldcut Road. Have my anti 40 rants been that successful

?

Bazzer2 · 16-12-2011 5:41pm

A2000 wrote: »

theres been a lot of instances of 40's going out of service at liffey valley leaving people behind and goin back into service while going out the back way to coldcut rd. People are not happy being left behind as they wouldnt mind the shorter journey. Also creates bigger gaps around neilstown.

Would it be fair to say there may be something of a reliability problem with the southside leg of the 40? Where the general Finglas area can choose from the 40, 40b, 40d and 140 (plus to an extent the 9 and 83), Neilstown is stuck with the 40 only and nothing else to spread the load. Buses are continually getting stuck in traffic in Inchicore and James Street in what should be a Quality Bus Corridor.

Ballyfermot is massively dependent on bus transport, so if one incident causes any more of a daytime gap of 10 minutes, the crowds waiting at bus stops start to build....

BenShermin · 16-12-2011 9:47pm

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Buses are continually getting stuck in traffic in Inchicore and James Street in what should be a Quality Bus Corridor.

Ballyfermot is massively dependent on bus transport, so if one incident causes any more of a daytime gap of 10 minutes, the crowds waiting at bus stops start to build....

There are posters on here who are adamant that every single 40 MUST use that so called QBC corridor even though it adds 10 to 30 mins to peak time journeys. My parents recently told me that it took them 30mins to get from the James Hospital stop to the library at Emmet Road! QBC my hole!!

The gaps and bunching of buses in Ballyfermot was inevitable given the length of the 40 route. As I said before and I'll bloody we'll say it again route 26 could have alleviated this problem somewhat, but the powers that be decided it would be better for that bus to carry thin air by re-routing it away from Ballyfermot.

Talk about Network Direct on the streets of Neilstown and Ballyfermot and you'll get a lot of angry responses, I know two people who have ditched their monthly ramblers in favour of a car, that's how bad things have got!

LXFlyer · 16-12-2011 10:48pm

The point is though, that is where many of the people on the 40 route want to go.

I can't see much point in having both Ballyfermot routes, the 40 and 79 going via the Quays?

Bazzer2 · 16-12-2011 10:49pm

BenShermin wrote: »

There are posters on here who are adamant that every single 40 MUST use that so called QBC corridor even though it adds 10 to 30 mins to peak time journeys. My parents recently told me that it took them 30mins to get from the James Hospital stop to the library at Emmet Road! QBC my hole!!

Imagine the uproar if the 46a took half an hour to get from the Belfield Flyover to Donnybrook Church. Even the North Circular Road isn't that bad.

Bazzer2 · 16-12-2011 11:02pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The point is though, that is where many of the people on the 40 route want to go.

That's where many people on the 40 HAVE to go!

Why not split the route in two? Half of the service through Kilmainham etc, the other half along the Quays for people who want to get to the city centre without having to endure the crawling pace.

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 12:56am

Surely if you want to go to the Quays you take the 79?

qerty · 17-12-2011 2:24am

The 79 should be rerouted along sarsfield road and along concolbert road to town!

17-12-2011 2:25am

qerty wrote: »

The 79 should be rerouted along sarsfield road and along concolbert road to town!

As in the 79A route?

qerty · 17-12-2011 2:29am

Karsini wrote: »

As in the 79A route?

Yes but both the 79 and 79a operate via Kylemore and Decies and Lally road. IMO it should operate the same route as the 40 from where it comes onto Ballyfermot road as far as Inchicore bridge and then operate via the current 79a routing! Passengers could be in town in less than 15 minutes as opposed to the 25-30 in currently takes! For an area that is quite close to town it takes an awfull long time to get there!

At the very least peak services could operate this route and all other services could maintain the current routing.

17-12-2011 2:35am

qerty wrote: »

Yes but both the 79 and 79a operate via Kylemore and Decies and Lally road. IMO it should operate the same route as the 40 from where it comes onto Ballyfermot road as far as Inchicore bridge and then operate via the current 79a routing! Passengers could be in town in less than 15 minutes as opposed to the 25-30 in currently takes! For an area that is quite close to town it takes an awfull long time to get there!

At the very least peak services could operate this route and all other services could maintain the current routing.

The old 78 used to follow this route, down the quays on to Con Colbert Road and then down Ballyfermot Road.

qerty · 17-12-2011 2:39am

Karsini wrote: »

The old 78 used to follow this route, down the quays on to Con Colbert Road and then down Ballyfermot Road.

It did indeed. The difference being that the 78 did not serve the population of cherryorchard and it operated once a day in either direction. The 79 would have much better success imo given the state of the 40 and the high frequency of the route.

Bazzer2 · 17-12-2011 7:45am

lxflyer wrote: »

Surely if you want to go to the Quays you take the 79?

I would be thinking about other areas where the 40 is the only option, such as Liffey Valley, Quarryvale, Fonthill, Ronanstown, Neilstown, Rowlagh, Collinstown, Coldcut and Upper Ballyfermot.

Granted a 10-minute service such the 40 is not to be sneezed at, when it works. But as a rapid transport option to the city centre, which is where most people want to go, it doesn't.

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 9:20am

Bazzer2 wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

Surely if you want to go to the Quays you take the 79?

I would be thinking about other areas where the 40 is the only option, such as Liffey Valley, Quarryvale, Fonthill, Ronanstown, Neilstown, Rowlagh, Collinstown, Coldcut and Upper Ballyfermot.

Granted a 10-minute service such the 40 is not to be sneezed at, when it works. But as a rapid transport option to the city centre, which is where most people want to go, it doesn't.

The reality is that there is a finite number of buses/drivers available to operate the service. What you're looking for is effectively a third service through Ballyfermot which I can't really see happening given the current climate.

The fact that the 26 was rerouted via Palmerston suggests to me that loadings from Ballyfermot were not that great - people may not share this desire.

As it is can people not switch from the 40 to the 79 at Sarsfield Road?

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 9:56am

qerty wrote: »

Karsini wrote: »

As in the 79A route?

Yes but both the 79 and 79a operate via Kylemore and Decies and Lally road. IMO it should operate the same route as the 40 from where it comes onto Ballyfermot road as far as Inchicore bridge and then operate via the current 79a routing! Passengers could be in town in less than 15 minutes as opposed to the 25-30 in currently takes! For an area that is quite close to town it takes an awfull long time to get there!

At the very least peak services could operate this route and all other services could maintain the current routing.

I don't think you'd be very popular with the residents of Kylemore Road, Decies Road or Lally Road with that idea.

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 9:58am

Bazzer2 wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

The point is though, that is where many of the people on the 40 route want to go.

That's where many people on the 40 HAVE to go!

Why not split the route in two? Half of the service through Kilmainham etc, the other half along the Quays for people who want to get to the city centre without having to endure the crawling pace.

Simplifying routes was one of the aims of the ND project - by splitting them in two you'd end up with a completely random service on the northern half of the route as journey times from Liffey Valley to O'Connell Bridge would be different.

phasers · 17-12-2011 3:19pm

As a Neilstown/Rowlagh resident, I can say firmly that the 40 is a complete disaster.

My bus stop is only 3 stops (a fifteen minute walk or so) from the Liffey Valley terminus, but local residents are often waiting up to 45 minutes for a bus because the drivers are skipping the Neilstown loop and going straight onto the Coldcut road. This also means that any bus that does do the proper route fills up by the time it gets to the Neilstown road, causing passengers to wait longer. Boarding times are longer too, so a journey that took 40 minutes on the 78a now takes almost an hour.

I've been watching the bus stop from my window the past couple of days so I can see exactly how bad it is.

I also got the 40 home from the City Centre the other day and it had already filled up (and stayed full until Inchicore) when we hit Dame Street, I assume because the buses are bunching in Finglas and skipping stops.

The 78a, and now the 40, are vital to Neilstown. It's our only bus route to the City Centre so people really do rely on it. I've been writing complaint emails, and advising other unhappy passengers to do the same. Hopefully somebody will listen but I'm not counting on it.

qerty · 17-12-2011 5:46pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't think you'd be very popular with the residents of Kylemore Road, Decies Road or Lally Road with that idea.

If the 46a can be removed from Stillorgan village, and the 39a made more direct, why cant the 79a??

AlekSmart · 17-12-2011 6:07pm

phasers wrote: »

As a Neilstown/Rowlagh resident, I can say firmly that the 40 is a complete disaster.

I also got the 40 home from the City Centre the other day and it had already filled up (and stayed full until Inchicore) when we hit Dame Street, I assume because the buses are bunching in Finglas and skipping stops.

The 78a, and now the 40, are vital to Neilstown. It's our only bus route to the City Centre so people really do rely on it. I've been writing complaint emails, and advising other unhappy passengers to do the same. Hopefully somebody will listen but I'm not counting on it.

So bloody sad.....RUNNING TIME-RUNNING TIME-RUNNING TIME......Yet again the company have been caught out by a reluctance to admit that Network Direct is all about service CUTS.......Remove 200 Buses and 350 Drivers from a system and it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain previous service levels.....a little honesty rather than PR puffery would be more appropriate at this stage.

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 6:55pm

qerty wrote: »

If the 46a can be removed from Stillorgan village, and the 39a made more direct, why cant the 79a??

Stillorgan Village is hardly the same - it's quite a walk from the railway bridge on the Kylemore Road to Ballyfermot Road, especially for older people.

The 39 still serves the old route through Blanchardstown.

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 7:38pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

So bloody sad.....RUNNING TIME-RUNNING TIME-RUNNING TIME......Yet again the company have been caught out by a reluctance to admit that Network Direct is all about service CUTS.......Remove 200 Buses and 350 Drivers from a system and it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain previous service levels.....a little honesty rather than PR puffery would be more appropriate at this stage.

It's about eliminating inefficiencies and overcapacity which there certainly was.

The problem as you say Alek is that the running times (at certain times - by no means all) have been far too tight.

phasers · 17-12-2011 8:09pm

Are the management completely oblivious to the short running times or do they just not care? It's chaos, and I bet the drivers are getting it in the neck from passengers as well.

LXFlyer · 17-12-2011 9:51pm

phasers wrote: »

Are the management completely oblivious to the short running times or do they just not care? It's chaos, and I bet the drivers are getting it in the neck from passengers as well.

I'd like to think they are not, given they have detailed reports from the AVLC of how long every bus takes to travel from A to B, but it has to be said that drawing up new schedules and rosters is not exactly straightforward, and tends to take weeks to do as they often have to do up several versions before everyone is happy.

Carawaystick · 18-12-2011 3:30am

Can anyone explain why the 33n now goes via Dublin Airport, Druncondra and Santry, are these not served by other night links?
I thought network direct was supposed to eliminate parallel services

dfx- · 18-12-2011 6:08am

lxflyer wrote: »

It's about eliminating inefficiencies and overcapacity which there certainly was.

Routes like the 39/51B/C/77/78A/27/145/46A/15s/128/140 had no trouble with overcapacity. Arterial, core revenue routes have been messed with for no reason. Everyone of them has been changed to some degree.

An EV on the 145 is a sentence to a crammed, uncomfortable journey, running time increase or no running time increase. Unsuitable for the Heuston section too.

I'm slightly scared at the thought of the Rathmines/Rathgar corridor next week with this 15 nonsense. I'll be lucky to get any 14.

CIE · 18-12-2011 6:12am

Defining multiple routes on a single corridor as "inefficient" is specious as well. A long bus route serving a very-populated urban area is highly inefficient. It's the passengers that define what overcapacity is rather than the operators. The buses are supposed to go where the people want and need to go, not where the consultants think they should go.

LXFlyer · 18-12-2011 9:45am

dfx- wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

It's about eliminating inefficiencies and overcapacity which there certainly was.

Routes like the 39/51B/C/77/78A/27/145/46A/15s/128/140 had no trouble with overcapacity. Arterial, core revenue routes have been messed with for no reason. Everyone of them has been changed to some degree.

An EV on the 145 is a sentence to a crammed, uncomfortable journey, running time increase or no running time increase. Unsuitable for the Heuston section too.

I'm slightly scared at the thought of the Rathmines/Rathgar corridor next week with this 15 nonsense. I'll be lucky to get any 14.

In fact there was overcapacity on virtually every corridor - why else in certain cases were DB able to in some of those cases able to cut both peak and off-peak frequency on virtually every route? The 19, 19a and 83 for example merged into the 9 and 83 and still seem to be coping very effectively with the loads post-implementation.

The 145 is still operating at the same frequency (more or less) as before the change but without the long gaps throughout the day that used to occur due to some buses operating via Bray Station and others not. As for being crammed, buses are designed to operate at full capacity last time I checked - or do you want half -empty buses instead? That simply cannot continue.

There was gross inefficiency with virtually no route having regular fixed interval clockface schedules. At one stage on a Saturday afternoon a 15, 15a and 15b all left Eden Quay together at the same time and then there was a 15 minute gap to the next departure of any variant. Most routes had totally irregular departure patterns. Some routes had excessive running time with buses sitting at termini for over 25 minutes or in one extreme example an hour between departures! That frankly had to change.

People do want more cross-city services and one can already see more passengers on the 14 for example availing of the cross city penetration. I certainly believe that the increased cross-city penetration is a positive thing offering greater choice to customers.

The fundamental problem with the implementation has been that in certain cases (by no means all) running times were far too tight, meaning buses did not have sufficient time to get from one terminus to the other meaning knock on effects with later journeys late, curtailed or cancelled. Result? There could be long gaps in service, the advertised timetable has not been delivered, and you have a disaffected customer base. Not good.

This is something DB have to fix and far more quickly than they have been. Devising new rosters/timetables is a very complex task, but my own view is that if it ain't working they need to move heaven and earth to fix it.

LXFlyer · 18-12-2011 9:47am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the 33n now goes via Dublin Airport, Druncondra and Santry, are these not served by other night links?
I thought network direct was supposed to eliminate parallel services

The 33N has always served Dublin Airport.

Carawaystick · 18-12-2011 8:45pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Carawaystick wrote: »

Can anyone explain why the 33n now goes via Dublin Airport, Druncondra and Santry, are these not served by other night links?
I thought network direct was supposed to eliminate parallel services

The 33N has always served Dublin Airport.

Last time I got it, it went out the m1 to Holywell and then to swords and then Lusk
The 41n also serves the airport

Dublin Bus Network Review

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