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Got caught out calling a non-O2 number

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  • 20-07-2011 8:11pm
    #1
    gebbel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭


    I am on a billpay plan with O2 that gives free anytime calls to other O2 numbers. With all my minutes used up this month and 1 day to go to next months minutes being applied, I called my sister who had always been on the O2 network and has an 086 prefix.....and spent 30 minutes yapping to her. I thought it was a free call until she told me after 29 minutes that she had changed to the Three network a few days before.

    The call cost 9 euro and has left me fuming. Never got caught out before with O2 but feel like a fool now!

    I thought when you dial a number not on your network, but having your networks prefix, that you hear a beep to inform you of this. I have heard these beeps in the past.

    Am I missing something?

    Thanks.


«13

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    #2
    TeaServer
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭TeaServer


    You should have got the off-net tone at the start of the call. You normally get it before the call is connected to give you the opportunity to cancel the call.

    Its likely that you missed it on this occasion.

    /T


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    #3
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Mobile phones are a service where you cannot tell how much a call is going to cost you. Comreg need to attend to this, among the other anti-consumer practices in the industry.


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    #4
    AG2R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭AG2R


    Don't get a bill phone


    /thread]


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    #5
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    AG2R wrote: »
    Don't get a bill phone


    /thread]

    if they were on a prepay phone ringing a non o2 number the call would have cost more


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    #6
    AG2R
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭AG2R


    Not if they have free calls and texts to all irish networks.


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    #7
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Mobile phones are a service where you cannot tell how much a call is going to cost you. Comreg need to attend to this, among the other anti-consumer practices in the industry.

    unless you pay attention to your tariff?


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    #8
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    krudler wrote: »
    if they were on a prepay phone ringing a non o2 number the call would have cost more

    30-49c per minute insetad of 27c. At least 10% more, up to double.

    Bill makes sense for some people, I'll never understand why some people are so vehemently against it. My bill comes out of my account once a month, I don't overspend because I know what I'm doing, I never have to topup, I never get caught with no credit, my calls are about a quarter of the cost of prepay...etc

    No-brainer unless all you ever do is text. Which to me is annoying - you get so much more said in a 5 minute call than in an hour of back and forth texting.


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    #9
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭kirving


    Almost all phones have an on-screen call timer, you are told very clearly the call rates. Some extremely basic maths is all thats need to work out how much a call is going to cost.


    You can't expect to be babysat constantly, my kettle doesn't have a display telling me how much it's costing, but I can work it out if I really want.


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    #10
    AntiVirus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    sdeire wrote: »
    I never get caught with no credit

    How many times do you here someone on prepay say "can you call me back, I'm almost out of credit" :-D


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    #11
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    unless you pay attention to your tariff?

    Even if you know your tariff off by heart, there is no way of identifying which network the number is on in advance of the call. The system knows, why not provide some method of the customer knowing?


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    #12
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Even if you know your tariff off by heart, there is no way of identifying which network the number is on in advance of the call. The system knows, why not provide some method of the customer knowing?

    Have you actually read the thread? Both your contributions have been incorrect.

    There is a tone played before your call connects to identify it as an off-network call. It is irrelevant which network the person you are calling is with, only that it is not the one you're on yourself. Operators don't charge one rate for calling one competitor, and another rate for a different competitor - it's On-Net or Off-Net only.


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    #13
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Even if you know your tariff off by heart, there is no way of identifying which network the number is on in advance of the call. The system knows, why not provide some method of the customer knowing?

    It does.


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    #14
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    sdeire wrote: »
    30-49c per minute insetad of 27c. At least 10% more, up to double.

    Bill makes sense for some people, I'll never understand why some people are so vehemently against it. My bill comes out of my account once a month, I don't overspend because I know what I'm doing, I never have to topup, I never get caught with no credit, my calls are about a quarter of the cost of prepay...etc

    No-brainer unless all you ever do is text. Which to me is annoying - you get so much more said in a 5 minute call than in an hour of back and forth texting.

    It baffles me how people who are on billpay dont keep any track of their spending then get shocked at a huge bill, despite the info being on their phone, gotten on the customer care ivr, on the website, on spends alerts, etc etc, theres only so mcuh handholding and mollycoddling a network can do, the rest is up to the customer.


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    #15
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    It does.

    OK, if I have a number 085 1234567, please identify how I know on which network this is?

    If I call 021-123456 I know how much this will cost, if I call a mobile I do not.

    Customer information is not mollycoddling, it is basic requirement in a civilised society.


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    #16
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    ardmacha wrote: »
    OK, if I have a number 085 1234567, please identify how I know on which network this is?

    If I call 021-123456 I know how much this will cost, if I call a mobile I do not.

    Customer information is not mollycoddling, it is basic requirement in a civilised society.

    seriously,seriously? its been mentioned three times already on this thread, the phone emits a tone before the call connects to tell you its an off net number and therefore chargeable, the cost of the call is based on your price plan eg 27c per min to off net, its not some random charge the network makes up they cant change these once you're on a particular tariff.


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    #17
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    gebbel wrote: »
    Am I missing something?

    Yea you need more minutes, time to do what mother Mary said and shop around. Bet you could double your any time any one minutes buy seeing what on else is on offer outside of the o2 bubble your currently in.


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    #18
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    ardmacha wrote: »
    OK, if I have a number 085 1234567, please identify how I know on which network this is?

    If I call 021-123456 I know how much this will cost, if I call a mobile I do not.

    Customer information is not mollycoddling, it is basic requirement in a civilised society.

    For the fourth time on this thread:

    It does not matter what network you're calling once it's not the network you are on. If you go off-network, to any number not a landline, you get charged the same regardless of the network you're calling. The off network rate is provided to you in your price plan.


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    #19
    ardmacha
    Registered Users Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    sdeire wrote: »
    For the fourth time on this thread:

    It does not matter what network you're calling once it's not the network you are on. If you go off-network, to any number not a landline, you get charged the same regardless of the network you're calling. The off network rate is provided to you in your price plan.

    Repeating something that isn't the answer to my question and bolding it and underlining it shows great capability with boards.ie formatting but doesn't answer my question. Why don't you colour it as well? Perhaps you should focus on the issue, not on show off formatting.

    I simply want to know how much a call will cost me before I decide to make it. An easily overlooked beep half way after the call is dialled is not a proper response to that requirement. Mobile telephony is almost unique in that you cannot ascertain the cost until half through the process. Ths restriction of information suits mobile providers as it prevents me easily getting an O2 sim to ring O2 numbers and a Vodafone sim to ring Vodafone numbers.


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    #20
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Repeating something that isn't the answer to my question and bolding it and underlining it shows great capability with boards.ie formatting but doesn't answer my question. Why don't you colour it as well? Perhaps you should focus on the issue, not on show off formatting.

    I simply want to know how much a call will cost me before I decide to make it. An easily overlooked beep half way after the call is dialled is not a proper response to that requirement. Mobile telephony is almost unique in that you cannot ascertain the cost until half through the process. Ths restriction of information suits mobile providers as it prevents me easily getting an O2 sim to ring O2 numbers and a Vodafone sim to ring Vodafone numbers.

    your call charges are given to you when you first take out your contract, they're also on the networks website, or gotten by ringing customer care. its freely available info given to you from day one, your call costs stay the same on the plan you're using for as long as you're using it.


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    #21
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    ardmacha wrote: »
    I simply want to know how much a call will cost me before I decide to make it. An easily overlooked beep half way after the call is dialled is not a proper response to that requirement. Mobile telephony is almost unique in that you cannot ascertain the cost until half through the process.

    This is a very good point. There must be a central database of mobile numbers and the networks to which they're allocated. Why not make this freely accessible to download or lookup online?
    ardmacha wrote: »
    Ths restriction of information suits mobile providers as it prevents me easily getting an O2 sim to ring O2 numbers and a Vodafone sim to ring Vodafone numbers.

    Spot on!


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    #22
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,895 ✭✭✭kirving


    http://www.meteor.ie/support/meteor_services/check_if_a_mobile_number_is_on_the_meteor_network/

    Might help.

    Everyone has answered your question. The beep is there for a reason, even if the phone's screen displayed the network you're calling, you'd have a problem with that anyway.


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    #23
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    sugarman wrote: »
    Its not that hard tbh, everyone HAS answered your question.

    If it beeps its gonna cost you a cross rate to another network.

    No they haven't. If it beeps, you know it's not your network, but you don't know what network it is. It would be trivially easy to make this information available, if the will was there.


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    #24
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    This is a very good point. There must be a central database of mobile numbers and the networks to which they're allocated. Why not make this freely accessible to download or lookup online?
    I sure as hell don't want my number listed on a freely accessible database for all to see thank you very much!
    gizmo555 wrote: »
    No they haven't. If it beeps, you know it's not your network, but you don't know what network it is. It would be trivially easy to make this information available, if the will was there.
    A number is either on your network or it isn't! What difference does it make to know the exact network? If I'm an O2 customer, I'll get free on net calls but the off net charge will be the same regardless of what network it is. So I don't see why one would need to know the exact network.


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    #25
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    No they haven't. If it beeps, you know it's not your network, but you don't know what network it is. It would be trivially easy to make this information available, if the will was there.

    yea but if it's not your network you charged the off net price what ever that is relative to your price plan.
    You should know the costs or your phone plan and you should know them before you sign up to a contract.


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    #26
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    No they haven't. If it beeps, you know it's not your network, but you don't know what network it is. It would be trivially easy to make this information available, if the will was there.

    one more time for the cheap seats, its DOESNT MATTER what network you're ringing, off net is off net its the same charge! if you get free o2 calls and 27c per min to ring off net, thats ALL the networks, be it 3, vodafone, meteor, tesco, emobile. theres no seperate charges for the different networks its one cost for all of them.

    also, a database showing what network everyone is on? err, data protection act?


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    #27
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    jordainius wrote: »
    I sure as hell don't want my number listed on a freely accessible database for all to see thank you very much!

    There is no loss of privacy. The only information I suggest should be available is the number, and the network to which it currently belongs - no names or other personal information about the subscriber need be given out. This information is already partially given by the "beep" anyway.
    jordainius wrote: »
    A number is either on your network or it isn't! What difference does it make to know the exact network?

    Because if you have access to more than one phone (or have a dual SIM phone, or a multi SIM GSM gateway), on more than one network, you can choose to make the call on the one which is cheapest for any given call.


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    #28
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    krudler wrote: »
    also, a database showing what network everyone is on? err, data protection act?

    Why is a beep to indicate that a given number is not on your network not a data protection issue?

    Why was it not a data protection issue before number portability was introduced and you knew the mobile network from the prefix, in the same way you still know an 01 number is Dublin and 021 is Cork?


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    #29
    gebbel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭gebbel


    I don't hear a beep when I'm calling my sister or my mate on my phone. They have an 086 prefix but changed over to other networks. If I heard a beep I would be aware that I'm chewing into the minutes I have on the contract. This is how I got caught out. Where is the bloody beep!!


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    #30
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    krudler wrote: »

    also, a database showing what network everyone is on? err, data protection act?

    that and competition laws. We need the likes of three and meteor to bring in good deals for people, until number portability came in everyone would just stick with 086 or 087 as they could tell from the prefix. If that stayed in place nobody would move to another challenger network and thus no competition.

    Anyone on bill pay should get their contract based on how many minutes they'd use if all their friends were on different networks. That's the only way to buy a bill phone anything else is a false economy.


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    #31
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    Why is a beep to indicate that a given number is not on your network not a data protection issue?

    Why was it not a data protection issue before number portability was introduced and you knew the mobile network from the prefix, in the same way you still know an 01 number is Dublin and 021 is Cork?

    knowing a number is on one of the networks, not a specific network, is two different things, if its not o2 it can be 3, tesco, vodafone, meteor or emobile. obviously it has to be on one of them, if you know what network the person is on you know how much its costing them to make calls, its the same reason why you can only see your outgoing and not incoming calls on a phone bill, data protection.


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