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M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • #752
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Well it be a case of two "half tolls" eg. Each toll is on order of €1.20 -> €1.50? Or would both be full price (whatever they charge on M4 for example).

    The M3 have 2 €1.30 tolls instead of a single €2.60 toll, so I imagine it'll be something like this.

    I just hope the toll is north of the N63 interchange or Claregalway isn't going to get any relief from this road.


  • #753
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    to ‘catch’ motorists travelling from Tuam to Galway
    The majority of Tuam-Galway commuters won't pay this toll simply because the route is indirect to begin with.

    The vast majority of people who pay this toll will be people making long distance journeys.

    It's a bit mad to think there could eventually be 5 tolls between Tuam and Cork (M17, M18, Limerick Tunnel and M20 x 2).

    It must be said that the M6 toll is very reasonable at €1.80 for 56km. Hopefully the M17/18 tolls will be reasonable also given that it could well be the same company and a similar length scheme. €1 for each of the tolls??? That wouldn't be so bad!


  • #754
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    I think a petrol car would burn more than 1.80 cent sitting in traffic and starting and stopping by the time you would get the far-side of claregalway in the mornings and evenings, the tolls are the only option people will benefit in the long run and the construction company wont have to fully rely on the goverment to pay them back, plus the better roads we have the more investment we will see west of the shannon.


  • #755
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Ballyglunin area is just north of of N63 right?

    So there will be no toll on the stretch/junctions between the N63 and M6?


  • #756
    dell1211
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭dell1211


    moto111 wrote: »
    I think a petrol car would burn more than 1.80 cent sitting in traffic and starting and stopping by the time you would get the far-side of claregalway in the mornings and evenings, the tolls are the only option people will benefit in the long run and the construction company wont have to fully rely on the goverment to pay them back, plus the better roads we have the more investment we will see west of the shannon.

    But if you take the toll to get to galway city you will be dumped at the galway clinic roundabout and join several other major roads trying to get into the city via one/two roads so youll probably have to queue for the same amount of time that you would queue at claregalway. The hard part of the tuam road at the moment is getting through claregalway, once you get past this the delay is never too bad. Also claregalway shouldnt be as busy as a good portion of the traffic will at that stage take the motorway


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  • #757
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Ballyglunin area is just north of of N63 right?

    So there will be no toll on the stretch/junctions between the N63 and M6?
    Gmaps is inconsistent or wrong on the exact location of the townland of Ballyglunin. The only info I could get is that the old Ballyglunin train station (closed) is here. So it's still not entirely clear whether the toll is north of the N63 or south.


  • #758
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Gmaps is inconsistent or wrong on the exact location of the townland of Ballyglunin. The only info I could get is that the old Ballyglunin train station (closed) is here. So it's still not entirely clear whether the toll is north of the N63 or south.

    Here's the townland on the OSI map.

    The station is just over the "boundary" in the neighbouring townland of: Coolfowerbeg.

    The N63 forms the southern boundary of the townland or so it seems going by the 6" (1838) and 25" (1892) maps.
    http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,546868,741127,6,7


  • #759
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    I think (hope :D) it will have to be on the north side of the N63 since otherwise people would just get off and go via Claregalway (especially if the bypass is built separately) or the multitude of rat runs in the area.
    Hope it gets build soon.

    Someone mentioned that people would just continue using the old N17, I don't think they will if it gets classified as an R road and left to deteriorate by the council, the Claregalway to Tuam bit.


  • #760
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    Someone mentioned that people would just continue using the old N17, I don't think they will if it gets classified as an R road and left to deteriorate by the council, the Claregalway to Tuam bit.

    If it's tolled (it's looking increasingly likely which I mentioned several times previously) then the council and NRA will do everything in their powers to increase the amount of traffic on the new road as can be seen on the Limerick tunnel. Downgrading the N17 to a regional road will probably happen after the new road will open to traffic in 2014 or 2015.

    A toll of €1.30 each will probably be put on the M17 and the M18. I think for the majority of road users this toll will be too expensive. For those using the motorway for long distance travel the only option is driving it as the current road is an awful mess.

    Hopefully the NRA can get this scheme to construction before the end of this year.


  • #761
    Neworder79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    Sorry to add further doubt to this project but Minister was interviewed on Morning Ireland today regarding regional airport grants and and mentioned "no new road projects starting next year" in the context of 60m spending cuts and 100m in capital cuts to his department budget.


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  • #762
    yeehaw
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭yeehaw


    Neworder79 wrote: »
    Sorry to add further doubt to this project but Minister was interviewed on Morning Ireland today regarding regional airport grants and and mentioned "no new road projects starting next year" in the context of 60m spending cuts and 100m in capital cuts to his department budget.

    This is due to start this year. It is being backed by a consortium headed by Ocean Finance and wonga.com.


  • #763
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    To Yeehaw can you confirm your info is solid and i presume your talking about balfour beatty and bam as the contractors ?? thanks


  • #764
    funnyname
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭funnyname


    Why are they tolling roads, why not put an extra 5c a litre on fuel and ring fence that for road building and maintenance?


  • #765
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    funnyname wrote: »
    Why are they tolling roads, why not put an extra 5c a litre on fuel and ring fence that for road building and maintenance?

    Because the state are not funding the construction of the road. It is being built through the PPP process.


  • #766
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    moto111 wrote: »
    To Yeehaw can you confirm your info is solid and i presume your talking about balfour beatty and bam as the contractors ?? thanks

    You may want to check who those "lenders" are...





    (he's joking)


  • #767
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    This article says Gort to Tuam could be shelved

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/19857-motorway-outer-bypass-and-rail-link-be-halted-new-cuts


  • #768
    betistuc
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭betistuc


    glineli wrote: »
    This article says Gort to Tuam could be shelved

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/19857-motorway-outer-bypass-and-rail-link-be-halted-new-cuts

    I thought that Spanish firm [FCC] were keen to take this project on!

    Was that all crap. Had a look on the english version of their website but could'nt find any reference to them tendering for it.

    Anyone heard anything?


  • #769
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    glineli wrote: »
    This article says Gort to Tuam could be shelved

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/19857-motorway-outer-bypass-and-rail-link-be-halted-new-cuts


    paper will always soak ink


  • #770
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    betistuc wrote: »
    I thought that Spanish firm [FCC] were keen to take this project on!

    Was that all crap. Had a look on the english version of their website but could'nt find any reference to them tendering for it.

    Anyone heard anything?

    Nothing in the reports suggested that they had tendered. What has been reported is that they have expressed interest to the NRA in the case that BAM have to pull out


  • #771
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    Galway not getting much from fine gale, airport now m17. Outer bypass etc


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  • #772
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    Endas Five point plan must have got the shredder after meeting angela merkel


  • #773
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    gally74 wrote: »
    Galway not getting much from fine gale, airport now m17. Outer bypass etc

    sorry, but your comment is just plain wrong
    - the airport had been warned previously to get its finances in order by the previous govt
    - m17 has been delayed since late last year, when ff were in govt.
    - outer bypass is stuck in the courts due to environmental issues

    None of the above are delayed due to fg

    To clarify, Im not in favour of any party in particular and did not vote fg or ff last election


  • #774
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Deleted User wrote: »
    sorry, but your comment is just plain wrong
    - the airport had been warned previously to get its finances in order by the previous govt
    - m17 has been delayed since late last year, when ff were in govt.
    - outer bypass is stuck in the courts due to environmental issues

    None of the above are delayed due to fg

    To clarify, Im not in favour of any party in particular and did not vote fg or ff last election

    Indeed the airport has always been problematic. It should never have been built in Carnmore, from what I recall reading was that the original proposal back in the 1970's was the Army shooting range in Oranmore which was the former RFC/RAF landing strip.

    However Carnmore was built by a german industrialist who had a factory near by. I recall back in the 1990's there was a proposal to move the Airport to Oranmore where at least you could build a runway that was long enough to take 737's. If I recall right one reason that Dept. of Defence was opposed was due to the fact that they hope to develop Oranmore site as a Business park in the future -- my memory bit hazy on this.


  • #775
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    I'd honestly close the airport, buil the m17 and Shannon is pretty close, knock up the road too


  • #776
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    glineli wrote: »
    This article says Gort to Tuam could be shelved

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/19857-motorway-outer-bypass-and-rail-link-be-halted-new-cuts

    That looks like a load of guff to me. While the Outer bypass and rail links etc are dead, it doesnt say specifically that it would be shelved. We know more on here than the Galway News does.


  • #777
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    That looks like a load of guff to me. While the Outer bypass and rail links etc are dead, it doesnt say specifically that it would be shelved. We know more on here than the Galway News does.

    When there is no quotes or anything i do take it with a pinch of salt.

    Lets hope the interest from this Spanish crowd is real and contracts get signed before the end of the year


  • #778
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    There will be NO road going ahead until mid 2013 the earliest and that itself is a maybe it is looking like mid 2014 this information is 100%


  • #779
    Neworder79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Neworder79


    The weekend papers reported the remaining 5bn NPR money may be used as part of the "New ERA" stimulus plan, our overlords permitting. Much of that is Energy, Communications and Water infrastructure though.


  • #780
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    moto111 wrote: »
    There will be NO road going ahead until mid 2013 the earliest and that itself is a maybe it is looking like mid 2014 this information is 100%

    really?

    BAM have apparently won the contract for the Jackie Healy Rae Road N22 Tralee bypass.


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  • #781
    beeintheknow
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭beeintheknow


    Can someone please explain to me why, if some Spanish lads want to build this road and toll it, why the government don't just let them?


  • #782
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    beeintheknow wrote: »
    Can someone please explain to me why, if some Spanish lads want to build this road and toll it, why the government don't just let them?

    Yeah, i thought since this was a PPP the government didnt have to put any money upfront?

    Is there actual interest from this Spanish crowd or is it all just rubbish talk?


  • #783
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    beeintheknow wrote: »
    Can someone please explain to me why, if some Spanish lads want to build this road and toll it, why the government don't just let them?
    glineli wrote: »
    Yeah, i thought since this was a PPP the government didnt have to put any money upfront?

    Is there actual interest from this Spanish crowd or is it all just rubbish talk?

    The interest appears to be real enough. AFAIK BAM have not officially pulled out and the tender is theirs until they do. They have to sigh the contract or give up the tender.

    FCC did not originally tender, so I believe (open to correction on this) that it has to be offered to the 2nd place consortium - unless they also pull out. Then it'd probably have to be re-tendered due to the amount of money involved.


  • #784
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    antoobrien wrote: »
    really?

    BAM have apparently won the contract for the Jackie Healy Rae Road N22 Tralee bypass.

    This is the thread for M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam and Newlands cross is going ahead aswell before you here it on the radio kerry


  • #785
    moto111
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭moto111


    glineli wrote: »
    Yeah, i thought since this was a PPP the government didnt have to put any money upfront?

    Is there actual interest from this Spanish crowd or is it all just rubbish talk?

    its the NRA that has to show they have the money now to be able to pay the winning bidder thats where it is at Balfour beatty and bam have the money and so do roadbridge but its between the two of them to come in with the cheapest price then the NRA have to prove to them they can pay it back


  • #786
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Indeed the airport has always been problematic. It should never have been built in Carnmore, from what I recall reading was that the original proposal back in the 1970's was the Army shooting range in Oranmore which was the former RFC/RAF landing strip.

    However Carnmore was built by a german industrialist who had a factory near by. I recall back in the 1990's there was a proposal to move the Airport to Oranmore where at least you could build a runway that was long enough to take 737's. If I recall right one reason that Dept. of Defence was opposed was due to the fact that they hope to develop Oranmore site as a Business park in the future -- my memory bit hazy on this.

    The airport was in Oranmore on the old airbase originally. You can just about make out the line of the runway from aerial photographs.

    Just really ran Aer Arann Islands and some general aviation though.


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  • #787
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    MYOB wrote: »
    The airport was in Oranmore on the old airbase originally. You can just about make out the line of the runway from aerial photographs.

    Just really ran Aer Arann Islands and some general aviation though.

    Indeed well with grass runway and no facilities. They were gonna put in a proper runway etc until the runway at Carnmore was built.


  • #788
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    moto111 wrote: »
    There will be NO road going ahead until mid 2013 the earliest and that itself is a maybe it is looking like mid 2014 this information is 100%
    Source, source, source.


  • #789
    yaledo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭yaledo


    Hi,

    Near Gort, just North of the asphalt plant, on the grass verge on either side of the road - there are what appear to be measurement devices. Anyone know what these are for?
    Each one looks like a white tube with a hat. The tube stands upright, about 8cm in diameter, and 80 cm high, bright white in colour. The hat is also white, it is about 15cm in diameter and it covers the top of the tube.

    There are two pairs of these, maybe 500m apart. Each pair consists of one of these tubes on either of the road, directly across from each other. I think they are at varying distances from the road's edge, and at varying heights above road level.


  • #790
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    yaledo wrote: »
    Hi,

    Near Gort, just North of the asphalt plant, on the grass verge on either side of the road - there are what appear to be measurement devices. Anyone know what these are for?
    Each one looks like a white tube with a hat. The tube stands upright, about 8cm in diameter, and 80 cm high, bright white in colour. The hat is also white, it is about 15cm in diameter and it covers the top of the tube.

    There are two pairs of these, maybe 500m apart. Each pair consists of one of these tubes on either of the road, directly across from each other. I think they are at varying distances from the road's edge, and at varying heights above road level.

    Gas pipeline undreneath


  • #791
    yaledo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭yaledo


    Thanks Carawaystick

    So they simply mark the route of the pipeline, it seems that that 'hat' is there so that they can be seen from overhead, like the "aerial markers" pictured at:
    http://www.linewatch.co.uk/pdf/PipelineMarker_9-1.pdf


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  • #792
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    They may also be flowmeters.


  • #793
    Morebypasses
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Morebypasses


    Any update in the local Galway media etc on this project?????? Shame its been put on long finger by new government.


  • #794
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Morebypasses wrote: »
    Any update in the local Galway media etc on this project?????? Shame its been put on long finger by new government.
    That's not really it. It's more that a satisfactory way of funding it is not forthcoming as yet. I'm still confident this could kick off by the end of the year.


  • #795
    mayo23
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭mayo23


    Why aren't they building the M17 and M18 sections as two seperate schemes?

    In my opinion, the M17 should be built first, at least to the tuam side of claregalway. At least then the worst bottleneck on the N17 would be bypassed and you'd only need to build around 8 to 10km of the motorway.

    The rest can wait.


  • #796
    muchos04
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭muchos04


    The reality is it will probably not be built for a very long time. Infrastructure projects like this will probably be sidelined in the upcoming expenditure review in September.


  • #797
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    muchos04 wrote: »
    The reality is it will probably not be built for a very long time. Infrastructure projects like this will probably be sidelined in the upcoming expenditure review in September.
    Unacceptable on economic and job creation grounds.


  • #798
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    muchos04 wrote: »
    The reality is it will probably not be built for a very long time. Infrastructure projects like this will probably be sidelined in the upcoming expenditure review in September.

    If it ends up as a tolled PPP there's no expenditure to sideline...


  • #799
    Benbecul97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭Benbecul97


    Given the financial situation they should park this joint M17/M18 effort and just complete the M18 from Gort to intersect with the M6.

    Its a complete joke that Limerick and Ennis are not fully connected with motorway standard road to Galway.


  • #800
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Benbecul97 wrote: »
    Given the financial situation they should park this joint M17/M18 effort and just complete the M18 from Gort to intersect with the M6.

    Its a complete joke that Limerick and Ennis are not fully connected with motorway standard road to Galway.

    Would require a new tendering process, a redesign of the junction and similar. Would delay it for at least another year.


  • #801
    Benbecul97
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭Benbecul97


    MYOB wrote: »
    Would require a new tendering process, a redesign of the junction and similar. Would delay it for at least another year.

    why? why not just build the interconnection with the M6 and leave north of the M6 like Gort is now left - ready for the next phase.


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