why own a dangerous breed?

Frecklefart90 · 06-06-2011 10:43am

Discodog wrote: »

I have had four Boxers & they are the most misunderstood dogs on the planet. "Is that a Bulldog ?" :mad:

I got that the other night, hopefully when she is fully grown people will cop the fúck on when they see her.

Hellrazer · 06-06-2011 10:45am

Discodog wrote: »

You screen name doesn't offer much justice for the dog. The owner should have to surrender the dog & then pay for all the assessment, retraining, & kennelling costs.The dog should only be put down if, in the view of experts, there is no other option.

Ah cmon now Discodog.If one of my kids were savaged Id want the dog put down immediately and not wait for an "assessment" from a so called expert.

Killing the dog just allows the owner to go & get another one.

If the law was doing its job that person should never be allowed to own another dog for the rest of their lives.

Anyone who promotes aggression in a dog should be treated as if they were in possession of a weapon.

Exactly and the penalty should be the same for carrying a knife/gun/mace etc.And if that dog attacks someone it should be either a charge of grevious bodily harm or even attempted murder.The law is at fault in cases like this.

caseyann · 06-06-2011 10:55am

The Sweeper wrote: »

I don't agree with this at all. A sore or otherwise distressed dog may snap at a person or deliver a single bite. It would take a sustained attack to 'rip shreds out of someone'. A dog needs to be seriously in drive to deliver a sustained, multi-bite attack.

If you have a dog capable of the level of drive required to deliver a sustained attack, I really cannot believe you won't have seen that tendency in the dog before the attack happens. (Though I do realise that many people who own dogs that are potentially dangerous, regardless of their breed, may not recognise that high drive tendency for what it is.)

You are mistaken!!!!
I have witnessed such a thing and the dog was in so much pain it lashed out at everything around it for mere panic.And never done it before in five years of life.;)

The Sweeper · 06-06-2011 11:33am

So much pain? So you've gone from "a pulled muscle or a toothache" to 'so much pain'? There's a big difference.

From your first post, I took it that the dog would be in some hidden pain you couldn't see signs of, and you'd touch it and it'd go mental at you. I said I didn't agree with that, because if a dog is a bit sore from a pulled muscle, or a bit sort from a toothache, I think you'll usually get a warning and a snap or bite. I don't think a dog that's never shown a sign of aggression in its life will make a sustained attack - one where it comes at you again and again to 'rip you to shreds' even after you kick and push it away - just because it had a pulled muscle and you touched it.

If you're trying to lift the dog into your car to go to the vet after it's been hit by a car, or if it has something exceedingly painful like pancreatitis and you're trying to move it, bets are off.

I believe most dogs who are not by nature aggressive, if snapping at someone through pain or fear, are pushed to the 'final solution' and their first attempt will be a one-bite argument - an effort to get you to piss off. For a dog to come at you repeatedly it has to be off its bonce on adrenalin caused by pain, fear or fury.

If you're telling me you saw a dog with a simple muscle strain rip someone to shreds, I'd wonder if that dog really was as placid as you thought it was, or whether or not it was actually in far, far more pain than you realised.

getz · 06-06-2011 11:51am

dammitjanet wrote: »

I witnessed a similar scene a while back at a street fair where a dog attacked a smaller dog and wouldn't let go. A garda was on the street and after a good 5 minutes (seemed a lot longer) got them seperated. It was awful and the owners were paniced, pulling at the dogs and yelling and crying which seemed to make the matter worse (i'm sure though, put in the same situation, i'd be paniced too).

Difference being the 2 dogs were not what are traditionally seen as vicious breeds. As others have said, it's the owners that make the dog.

It's awful that the only solution possible was to kick their own dog in the head, I can't imagine ever being driven to that myself. Poor dogs

there is a simple way to make a fighting breed of dog[ie staffie] let go of another dog,without kicking and punching it,and that information should have been passed on by the dogs breeders,to the new owner

caseyann · 06-06-2011 11:51am

The Sweeper wrote: »

So much pain? So you've gone from "a pulled muscle or a toothache" to 'so much pain'? There's a big difference.

From your first post, I took it that the dog would be in some hidden pain you couldn't see signs of, and you'd touch it and it'd go mental at you. I said I didn't agree with that, because if a dog is a bit sore from a pulled muscle, or a bit sort from a toothache, I think you'll usually get a warning and a snap or bite. I don't think a dog that's never shown a sign of aggression in its life will make a sustained attack - one where it comes at you again and again to 'rip you to shreds' even after you kick and push it away - just because it had a pulled muscle and you touched it.

If you're trying to lift the dog into your car to go to the vet after it's been hit by a car, or if it has something exceedingly painful like pancreatitis and you're trying to move it, bets are off.

I believe most dogs who are not by nature aggressive, if snapping at someone through pain or fear, are pushed to the 'final solution' and their first attempt will be a one-bite argument - an effort to get you to piss off. For a dog to come at you repeatedly it has to be off its bonce on adrenalin caused by pain, fear or fury.

If you're telling me you saw a dog with a simple muscle strain rip someone to shreds, I'd wonder if that dog really was as placid as you thought it was, or whether or not it was actually in far, far more pain than you realised.

It was a pulled muscle :rolleyes: ever had a pulled muscle?

EGAR · 06-06-2011 11:57am

I think a lot of ignorance is still rampant when it comes to dogs and animals in general. Anthropomorphism is often at the root of it all. How often have I heard comments like *He should have known better*, *He should be grateful that I took him in*, *He nearly talks to you* etc?

Regardless of how WE feel and think, we CANNOT apply the same to dogs.

Dogs are subject to different influences than we are inasmuch as they are opportunistic scavengers by nature. They are not little furry humans on four legs. They are animals and as such do not know right from wrong as we perceive it.

The times I have been bitten (apart from the full on attack by the Yellow Lab I had taken in as a *stray*) were done by dogs in extreme distress, ie RTA's, breaking up a dogfight, pain/fear induced "aggression" at the vets.

It seems that common sense is not that common anymore if it ever was.

A dog is a dog is a dog, it is not a child substitute, it is not a weapon and above all it is NOT human.

getz · 06-06-2011 12:00pm

Discodog wrote: »

I have had four Boxers & they are the most misunderstood dogs on the planet. "Is that a Bulldog ?" :mad:

i would take that as a complement,bullies are among the most gentle dogs about,despite their looks,i am now on my third,and over 35 years i have also had two staffies.

ISDW · 06-06-2011 12:03pm

getz wrote: »

there is a simple way to make a fighting breed of dog[ie staffie] let go of another dog,without kicking and punching it,and that information should have been passed on by the dogs breeders,to the new owner

It would be very useful if you could post here what it is, could be helpful to people.

Discodog · 06-06-2011 12:07pm

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ah cmon now Discodog.If one of my kids were savaged Id want the dog put down immediately and not wait for an "assessment" from a so called expert.

My reply was in response to the following:

Sid_Justice wrote: »

and euthanised immediately after any violence.

That's not the same as savaging your kids.

If you kill the dog you never get to find out why it bit so you learn nothing. It's too easy to assume that it was "bad" dog & then go out & get another one without discovering what the owner did to make it bite.

getz wrote: »

i would take that as a complement,bullies are among the most gentle dogs about,despite their looks,i am now on my third,and over 35 years i have also had two staffies.

I agree but you know the problem where ignorant people take one look & assume the worst.

EGAR · 06-06-2011 12:14pm

The title of this thread is *why own a dangerous breed?*

This in itself is a oxymoron since none of us do as there is no such thing as a dangerous breed, there is, however, such a thing as a dangerous owner and the legislation must be pointed at these NOT the dogs.

getz · 06-06-2011 12:32pm

ISDW wrote: »

It would be very useful if you could post here what it is, could be helpful to people.

when owning a dog [like a staffie ]it should have a thick collar.not a harness or chain,if the dog grabs hold of another dog ,and will not let go,you should put you hand under the back of his collar and twist at the same time out the palm of your other hand over its nostrils,this will stop the dog getting any air to its lungs.it will have to let go.if the dog has not got on a collar use your belt for the same affect, ;the staffie owners bible;

getz · 06-06-2011 12:38pm

Discodog wrote: »

My reply was in response to the following:

That's not the same as savaging your kids.

If you kill the dog you never get to find out why it bit so you learn nothing. It's too easy to assume that it was "bad" dog & then go out & get another one without discovering what the owner did to make it bite.

I agree but you know the problem where ignorant people take one look & assume the worst.

how can you expect the avarage man in the street to get it right ,when even goverment experts got it wrong ? ireland once put the bullie on their restricted list,to wear a muzzle,

The Sweeper · 06-06-2011 12:40pm

getz - if you're using a strangle hold on a dog to break its hold on something, you're preventing air from getting through its windpipe whether it's breathing through its mouth or its nose. Covering its nostrils with your hand is unnecessary (and just puts your hand in the immediate line of fire).

(Even saying that, trying to get a hold of a collar in the middle of the snapping, whirling, roaring melee that's a proper dogfight isn't something I'd do without backup.)

toadfly · 06-06-2011 12:40pm

Getz why are you using Staffs as an example of a dangerous breed? You've done that in a few posts now.

getz · 06-06-2011 12:50pm

TillyGirl wrote: »

Getz why are you using Staffs as an example of a dangerous breed? You've done that in a few posts now.

tillygirl,in my eyes staffies are the most loving pet anyone can have,when i have been asked which dog should we get with children,i will always tell them the staffie,its a nannydog it can take all the rough and tumble that young children do to a puppy, the only reason i mention the staffie as a restricted breed ,because in ireland it is[wrongly i believe] it not on the restricted list in the Uk.

Bullseye1 · 06-06-2011 12:50pm

If your an owner of a Ristricted Breed you have a greater responsibility by virtue of the law in place to protect the public. I know that if my Ridgeback went on the rampage that she would do alot more physical damage than an yellow lab. Do I agree with the breed being restricted? No. But i do know I'm not helping my case by being irresponsible in public places.

Owners of certain breeds need to take ownership back from he irresponsible owners. Allowing any Tom dick and Harry to own your chosen breed will only harm the breed going forward.

Alot of restricted breed owners simply overlook the pandemic of young adolescent men who keep bull breeds to intimidate 3rd parties. I have yet to see a proper and full discussion on this element of society who keep dogs as weapons.

EGAR · 06-06-2011 12:50pm

getz wrote: »

when owning a dog [like a staffie ]it should have a thick collar.not a harness or chain,if the dog grabs hold of another dog ,and will not let go,you should put you hand under the back of his collar and twist at the same time out the palm of your other hand over its nostrils,this will stop the dog getting any air to its lungs.it will have to let go.if the dog has not got on a collar use your belt for the same affect, ;the staffie owners bible;

What utter boll***.

EGAR · 06-06-2011 12:54pm

getz wrote: »

it not on the restricted list in the Uk.

That's because the UK DOES NOT HAVE a restricted breeds list

. They have the DDA (Dangerous Dogs Act) which bans four breeds from being owned:

the Pit Bull Terrier
the Japanese Tosa
the Dogo Argentino
the Fila Braziliero

caseyann · 06-06-2011 12:57pm

EGAR wrote: »

I think a lot of ignorance is still rampant when it comes to dogs and animals in general. Anthropomorphism is often at the root of it all. How often have I heard comments like *He should have known better*, *He should be grateful that I took him in*, *He nearly talks to you* etc?

Regardless of how WE feel and think, we CANNOT apply the same to dogs.

Dogs are subject to different influences than we are inasmuch as they are opportunistic scavengers by nature. They are not little furry humans on four legs. They are animals and as such do not know right from wrong as we perceive it.

The times I have been bitten (apart from the full on attack by the Yellow Lab I had taken in as a *stray*) were done by dogs in extreme distress, ie RTA's, breaking up a dogfight, pain/fear induced "aggression" at the vets.

It seems that common sense is not that common anymore if it ever was.

A dog is a dog is a dog, it is not a child substitute, it is not a weapon and above all it is NOT human.

That is one of the biggest problems humans treating dogs like they are human.
They underestimate their pets because they have forgotten they are not human.
The time our dog went into a frenzy,it was terrifying but luckily i had control and used a barrier for him not to actually draw blood.He repeatedly in squealing pain attacked the barrier i put in front of me.And that was from a mere touch of where the pain was poor thing

There was no indication no limping no nothing and had been on a walk with me not five mins before.

When people say their dog would never bite someone that is when i say they are mistaken.He may not intend on biting someone but it can happen and thats why as the pet owner it is up to them to always treat the dog with care and respect their strength.

I hate the dangerous dogs act thing.I think should be powerful breed act.

getz · 06-06-2011 1:03pm

The Sweeper wrote: »

getz - if you're using a strangle hold on a dog to break its hold on something, you're preventing air from getting through its windpipe whether it's breathing through its mouth or its nose. Covering its nostrils with your hand is unnecessary (and just puts your hand in the immediate line of fire).

(Even saying that, trying to get a hold of a collar in the middle of the snapping, whirling, roaring melee that's a proper dogfight isn't something I'd do without backup.)

you may be get bitten but it will not be by the dog that has hold of the other dog , you will find the bullbreeds are not the snapping breeds they are a crushing type of dog,when they get a grip they stay in one place,anyway its better than pulling the dog off ending up with a shocking injury to the other dog,and its a tried and tested humane method,among the breeders,

caseyann · 06-06-2011 1:04pm

EGAR wrote: »

What utter boll***.

I have luckily had only minor scrapes my whole life with dogs fighting.
What would you do in situation of two dogs under full attack? In case i ever run into situation like that(which i hope i never have to)

ISDW · 06-06-2011 1:06pm

caseyann wrote: »

That is one of the biggest problems humans treating dogs like they are human.
They underestimate their pets because they have forgotten they are not human.
The time our dog went into a frenzy,it was terrifying but luckily i had control and used a barrier for him not to actually draw blood.He repeatedly in squealing pain attacked the barrier i put in front of me.And that was from a mere touch of where the pain was poor thing There was no indication no limping no nothing and had been on a walk with me not five mins before.

When people say their dog would never bite someone that is when i say they are mistaken.He may not intend on biting someone but it can happen and thats why as the pet owner it is up to them to always treat the dog with care and respect their strength.

I hate the dangerous dogs act thing.I think should be powerful breed act.

For goodness sake, there is no dangerous dog act in Ireland.

Why on earth would you want to bring in another flawed piece of legislation? A powerful breed act? And what dogs would you have on that?

Getz, when you said you knew how to stop dogs fighting, I thought you actually knew something. Anybody that puts their hands anywhere near two dogs fighting is an idiot and deserves to get bitten. If you have a dog with a collar on, get a pole, brush handle etc and get that under the collar at the back and twist it, but no way should you get your hands anywhere near the dogs.

caseyann · 06-06-2011 1:13pm

ISDW wrote: »

For goodness sake, there is no dangerous dog act in Ireland.

Why on earth would you want to bring in another flawed piece of legislation? A powerful breed act? And what dogs would you have on that?

Getz, when you said you knew how to stop dogs fighting, I thought you actually knew something. Anybody that puts their hands anywhere near two dogs fighting is an idiot and deserves to get bitten. If you have a dog with a collar on, get a pole, brush handle etc and get that under the collar at the back and twist it, but no way should you get your hands anywhere near the dogs.

Same **** different wording .

Discodog · 06-06-2011 1:15pm

getz wrote: »

how can you expect the avarage man in the street to get it right ,when even goverment experts got it wrong ? ireland once put the bullie on their restricted list,to wear a muzzle,

We expect "the man in the street" to learn quite complex procedures like driving a car, paying taxes etc. We don't allow someone to drive until they prove that they are qualified. The Government don't consult experts. Most of the expert opinion submitted regarding the DBEB was ignored.

ISDW · 06-06-2011 1:19pm

caseyann wrote: »

Same **** different wording .

What? I don't understand your post.

EGAR · 06-06-2011 1:20pm

caseyann wrote: »

Same **** different wording .

No, it isn't. Both legislations are worlds apart.

The DDA in the UK bans certain breeds and their TYPES which causes dogs to be seized and destroyed, incarcerated for years on end whilst their owners fight to get them freed.

I am working with DDA victims in NI and believe me, they would rather have a restricted breeds list and their beloved pets back.

caseyann · 06-06-2011 1:21pm

ISDW wrote: »

What? I don't understand your post.

Dangerous dogs act,restricted breeds act.All the same just worded different.All create stigma to the dogs of them breeds.
Sue me for writing dangerous dogs act.

getz · 06-06-2011 1:22pm

EGAR wrote: »

That's because the UK DOES NOT HAVE a restricted breeds list . They have the DDA (Dangerous Dogs Act) which bans four breeds from being owned:

the Pit Bull Terrier
the Japanese Tosa
the Dogo Argentino
the Fila Braziliero

no it does not,quote,in the UK it is illegal to breed from/sell,abandon or give away a banned/restricted dog,but you can own one

EGAR · 06-06-2011 1:25pm

getz wrote: »

no it does not,quote,in the UK it is illegal to breed from/sell,abandon or give away a banned/restricted dog,but you can own one

You have to go to court, get your animal assessed whilst incarcerated, MC'd, tattooed and insured for astronomical premiums and when you die, your dog dies with you. And that only applies if the court has a good day.

The Amendment pertaining to this is only valid in the UK NOT in NI, they have never accepted the amendment.

Really, you need to do your homework first before you give advice.

why own a dangerous breed?

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