IMRA season 2011

donothoponpop · 07-04-2011 10:31pm

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

Cue a discussion about KotM, King of the Marshalls. Should take into account the gradient, distance, weather, terrain and the amount of pints that the RD has put our way after the race.

Given recent discussions, King of the Marshalls should attain the summit, and prove rationally that the summit cannot be defined, is therefore inexistant, thus null and void for enduro points. Everyone could just stay in the pub, who's going to argue with that?

T runner · 08-04-2011 9:46am

donothoponpop wrote: »

Given recent discussions, King of the Marshalls should attain the summit, and prove rationally that the summit cannot be defined, is therefore inexistant, thus null and void for enduro points. Everyone could just stay in the pub, who's going to argue with that?

Stay in the pub? The underlying irrational assumption here is that we will be in a pub before the summit attaining even begins!

If you manage to persuade everyone to your ineterupting a session with a mountain race strategy then Enduro points could and should apply. Lenght of time between pub opening and race start being the criteria of difficulty. Measured in objective units/body weight...or subjective categories......walked wrong direction leaving pub......wobbly.....legless.....and the 10 pointer.........carried to start unconcious.

Raighne · 08-04-2011 10:15am

Enduro wrote: »

Do you have any links for the FRA system. I haven't come accross it. The TAD system does the job it was intended to do perfectly well. We do have more detailed information on the AD parts though, which is used to calculate race difficulty.

That Scottish hillrunning website is interesting. We're flattered by such obvious immitation. It really is amazing how it is almost a direct copy of the IMRA site with some graphic design reworking.

The imitation is quite obvious, and I remember Justin noting how they had "appropriated" the "% of Win Time" metric from our site. Getting your ideas copied is the greatest flattery indeed...

From the club perspective, though, I think they have taken the data structure and overview of IMRA and added another layer. If there was any way we could easily copy that design it could make for an interesting functionality. How technically challenging would such a feature be in your experience? And how interested do we think the membership would be compared to other features that this time could be spent at instead? (that was the question we faced in 2008, and Justin decided to give the implementation of myIMRA priority to future-proof the website).

I don't have a link ready at hand, but will see if I can find it. Otherwise I can type it off my Trailguides books which use the system.

PositiveNegativ · 08-04-2011 4:01pm

ocnoc wrote: »

Currently am in two minds if I'll run it or not...

I'll pretend I didn't see that.

Cough
Track Fairy

PositiveNegativ · 08-04-2011 5:17pm

Thought I'd throw in my two cent worth.

Here's three results from races I did in a ten day period.

Jun 2 Carrauntoohil 11 97:32 119.0 161.0
Jun 5 Blue Light 1 23:03 144.1 146.1
Jun 12 Scalp 2 22:40 139.7 142.5

For the first one, I went out far too hard, blew up on the climb, ambled along the ridge and jogged downhill to set a personal worst time for the route. 161.0 points v 123%

For the second I went for the record. Gave everything I had, missed the record but won the race. 146.1 points v 100%

At the Scalp it was one of those Scalp days, meaning a duel. Battled every metre of the route at 100% effort losing the race by 9 seconds. 142.5 points v 100%

Seems to me, the weighing for course length and climb are way out. The % of winner's time far better reflects my efforts in these cases.

That Carrauntoohil result was my worst of the year yet was my second best points score.

My highest score for the year was 163 points for 2nd at Powerscourt Ridge, again a longer race.

ocnoc · 08-04-2011 6:57pm

PositiveNegativ wrote: »

I'll pretend I didn't see that.

Cough
Track Fairy

Ok. You asked for it.

Sub 2:30 it is so.

ocnoc · 08-04-2011 7:05pm

Arts Lough 25:00
Clohernagh 18:00
Lug 14:00
Camenabologue 25:00
Conavalla 19:00
Lugduff 21:00
Mullacor 15:00
Finish 12:00
Total 149:00

PositiveNegativ · 08-04-2011 7:54pm

After you.

Dunebuggy · 09-04-2011 6:31pm

The dates we are proposing for the Nav are the following :

23rd July, 6th of August and the 14th August for the Nav Challange -

This takes us up to the 20th - Lug challenge.

Slogger Jogger · 09-04-2011 7:21pm

all the more practice for dpop

It makes perfect apparently.

ocnoc · 09-04-2011 7:36pm

Dunebuggy wrote: »

The dates we are proposing for the Nav are the following :

23rd July, 6th of August and the 14th August for the Nav Challange -

This takes us up to the 20th - Lug challenge.

The World Orienteering Champs ends on the 20th... Some of the runners from last year may either be running WOC or be running in the Tour that coincides with the main championship races

ocnoc · 10-04-2011 10:38pm

PositiveNegativ wrote: »

Track Fairy

Well.... I hope your happy... The name has stuck!

Ar Strae · 11-04-2011 10:58am

Nice run yesterday on Sliabh Foye. Beautiful weather (still made jackets mandatory though?) Came off the top wrong but some panniccy traversing got me back on.

First hill race since my Fairy Chase debacle last May and it feels great to be back (well feels great afterwards)

Are people doing Tonelagee this Sunday?

Ro

ocnoc · 11-04-2011 11:05am

Ar Strae wrote: »

(still made jackets mandatory though?)

Good. In GB Championship races everyone must run and finish with a list of kit, regardless of weather conditions.
I would like to see this come in with IMRA.

Weather can turn in minutes in the mountains.

PositiveNegativ · 11-04-2011 11:12am

Ar Strae wrote: »

Beautiful weather (still made jackets mandatory though?)

Better to have a jacket for the two or three hour limp a badly twisted ankle near the top would entail.

Ar Strae wrote: »

Are people doing Tonelagee this Sunday?

Yes Sir. Running up down up and down again is the plan.

Ar Strae · 11-04-2011 11:13am

Ah yeah fair enough..I reckon rules is rules...if they tell ya to bring it you bring it.. as for the "minuets" the only dancing on the mountain I did was a little bit of pogoing trying to get out of some of the muddy patches. :rolleyes:

Is it bad that I still work out my % of winner's time manually? Is that like refusing to convert from punts to euro?

Ro

PositiveNegativ · 11-04-2011 11:14am

ocnoc wrote: »

Well.... I hope your happy... The name has stuck!

The Irony

Ar Strae · 11-04-2011 11:46am

PositiveNegativ wrote: »

Better to have a jacket for the two or three hour limp a badly twisted ankle near the top would entail.

yeah, although if you had a 2 or 3 hour hike down the biggest problem might have been sunburn! :-)

Yes Sir. Running up down up and down again is the plan.

A solid plan...one I hope to emulate...albeit with a sizeable gap between us probably.

Only 37 runners in Carlingford though. Surprised how few. I know NIMRA had a big race on the Saturday and Connemara and the Great Run were on as well but I expected to see more people there? Do the Wicklow denizens not stray that far North? :rolleyes:

Still, no complaints I guess...more people would have meant a worse position!

But it's kind of crazy that the Leinster League is getting towards 300 people (294 running Hellfire last year) and the Leinster Champs are around a tenth of that? Nice for those that turn up to the LCs, different vibe and all but it's gas that there isn't more of a move. I would have thoguth people would have acrack at the Leinster League and then think about moving up.

Ro

PositiveNegativ · 11-04-2011 11:57am

The big difference between the LL and LC. Red and white tape.

Advertise something as fully marked and (I don't mean to be negative here) all sorts show up. Mention the Navigation word and hill runners or Orienteer's show up. There simply aren't as many of them as there are all sorts.

Personally that suits me fine. I'm listed to RD two LC races this summer and don't want or need the hassle of more than 50 in a race. Like you say, it's a different vibe. Long may it last.

ocnoc · 11-04-2011 12:08pm

Ar Strae wrote: »

Surprised how few. I know NIMRA had a big race on the Saturday and Connemara and the Great Run were on as well but I expected to see more people there? Do the Wicklow denizens not stray that far North? :rolleyes:

But it's kind of crazy that the Leinster League is getting towards 300 people (294 running Hellfire last year) and the Leinster Champs are around a tenth of that? Nice for those that turn up to the LCs, different vibe and all but it's gas that there isn't more of a move. I would have thoguth people would have acrack at the Leinster League and then think about moving up.

There was a British Champs race on slightly further North. If I was hill racing this weekend, that would have been the pick of the bunch.

In terms of cross over, I am aware I am opening a can of worms, but from my view point, from what I see and hear is that people tend to run the league and pat themselves on the back with the attitude of "I run in the mountains, aren't I great". There is a slight fear of running championship races, as the word championship scares people. They expect the standard to be extremely high and they fear they will come paddy last by hours.

Look at Tonelagee in the eyes of a first timer, it looms up above you as you drive up the wicklow gap. It looks like a long tough far climb. Then you do a recce and walk down the steep rough slopes and think you have to race this.
It'd put the fear of god into your average runner. Then you look at last years winning time... 40mins... and its unmarked!!

ocnoc · 11-04-2011 12:10pm

PositiveNegativ wrote: »

Running up down up and down

Them a fighten words

ThisRegard · 11-04-2011 12:36pm

ocnoc wrote: »

from what I see and hear is that people tend to run the league and pat themselves on the back with the attitude of "I run in the mountains, aren't I great".

As you said, you're opening a can of worms but I thinks that's a bit patronising to those who choose the league over the championships. I'm sure there's many reasons such as the safety in numbers one, people not too confident in their ability in that they're happy to be lost in the crowd of league runners but don't want to drop right out the back when there's fewer numbers in the championship.

Patting themselves on the back saying I'm great is not one of them.

ocnoc · 11-04-2011 12:41pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

I thinks that's a bit patronising to those who choose the league over the championships.

If you read the next two lines, you would see what I meant as too why people chose League over Champs.

T runner · 11-04-2011 12:52pm

Ar Strae wrote: »

Ah yeah fair enough..I reckon rules is rules...if they tell ya to bring it you bring it.. as for the "minuets" the only dancing on the mountain I did was a little bit of pogoing trying to get out of some of the muddy patches. :rolleyes:

Is it bad that I still work out my % of winner's time manually? Is that like refusing to convert from punts to euro?

Ro

The base points even made no sense in this one. They were bizarely low. John Lenihan setting a record in his heyday would not have skewed the percentages as much as the base points were lowered for this.

How dod your percentage of winner compare to other races? Up or down to what youd expect. The leader at the top lost his place and 1st and 2nd home may have lost 30 secs each so the winning time may have been a little soft.

Ar Strae · 11-04-2011 1:31pm

How dod your percentage of winner compare to other races? Up or down to what youd expect. The leader at the top lost his place and 1st and 2nd home may have lost 30 secs each so the winning time may have been a little soft.[/QUOTE]

Yeah my percentage worked out at 129% which is little better than I would usually be I think (although it's difficult to remember and I couldn't be arsed having to recalculate it all for my previous races!) but a quick check of the only other LC race I've done, Tonelagee last year, had me at 134%. So given that this was the first race in about a year and I've only been back running properly for a month or so I'm happy out.

Endurao, any chance we could get back a % of winning time column in the results as well as the Enduro points to ease us through the change? If I see how it's working compared to the percentages I think I'd feel more comfortable with how it works.

Ro

P.S. I forgot to mention that my adapted Tonelagee plan will probably have some walking, a little staggering and a section of fist-shaking at the sky while shouting "Why me!?"

T runner · 11-04-2011 1:46pm

Surprised that there wasnt more at it. A perfect up and down race. The slight route change added to it i think. Just an acceptable amount of road.
Ian Conroy climbed it in about 28:30. A 2:1 time ratio would apply to the ascent/descent here for a good descender which means that a sub 40 minute time is possible for a very fast mountain runner on that course.

Ian Conroy was unlucky after a good climb to go astray. Dont think there was any catching him for anyone only for that.

Dunebuggy · 16-04-2011 2:22pm

Looks like a cracker of a day for tomorrow - not sure there will be much of a requirement for gloves :-)

ocnoc · 16-04-2011 2:50pm

Dunebuggy wrote: »

Looks like a cracker of a day for tomorrow - not sure there will be much of a requirement for gloves :-)

Beauty in the eye of the beholder... No mist, rain, thunderstorms, ground is relatively dry... ick

jeffontour · 16-04-2011 6:37pm

Dunebuggy wrote: »

tomorrow - not sure there will be much of a requirement for gloves :-)

That might explain why there was no IMRA bods around the car park about 1 today as I was coming through on my run!

ocnoc · 16-04-2011 9:42pm

Oh boy oh boy Oh boy oh boy Oh boy oh boy Oh boy oh boy Oh boy oh boy Oh boy oh boy Oh boy oh boy

I freekin

mountains!

(said while packing kit and guzzling coffee, its gona be one of those nights

)

IMRA season 2011

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