First Jack O'Connor, now David Begg - are the unions scared of FG

Lockstep · 19-02-2011 11:03pm

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

What about ICTU?

ICTU aren't affiliated with Labour. Nor do they have official links with them.

ftnbase · 20-02-2011 9:32am

Lockstep wrote: »

ICTU aren't affiliated with Labour. Nor do they have official links with them.

Will ICTU, SIPTU and their cronies will have a "Thanks for supporting Labour" training fund set up after the election and then have investigations as to where the money went before the election after that?

What is certain is that the changes that are vital in the Public Sector will NOT happen if Labour are part of the next Government - they must keep their promises to the brethern. The Public Sector changes are essential.

Labour want power for themseleves - as do all other parties. Labour staff expect a 50% increase in their salaries after the election if they get into Government.

I listened to Eamon Gilmore talking about the fear of FG single party government and how bad it would be for the country. If he thought it would be that bad why does he not propose a coalition as an option for the people instead of those silly "Gilmore for Taoiseach" posters - pigs will fly and all that.

Tim Robbins · 20-02-2011 10:44am

Good article about the links between Labour and the Unions, in yesterday's Indo.

ftnbase · 20-02-2011 11:06am

Labour an d the Unions - great combination to ensure our future prosperity.

CDfm · 20-02-2011 11:18am

Lockstep wrote: »

ICTU aren't affiliated with Labour. Nor do they have official links with them.

Thats like saying the knights of columbanus arent affiliated to the catholic church.

In theory , of course it is true, but in practice they are one and the same

The Unions calls for people to vote labour is canvassing on a grand scale.

ftnbase · 20-02-2011 11:30am

I agree with CDfm. Labour and Unions are joined at the hip.
Gilmore is panicking because of the FG opinion poll results and is looking for support from the "bearded ones". Because of Labour's left/right "every thing to everyone" policies they can not admit that they are supported by the Unions but it is clear for the past few days that the are.

If the Unions made statements like this 20 years ago people would have listened. Now, the public, including Union members, realise that Unions have been on the same Gravy Train as the politicians for years and ignore their utterances.

CDfm · 20-02-2011 11:56am

ftnbase wrote: »

If the Unions made statements like this 20 years ago people would have listened. Now, the public, including Union members, realise that Unions have been on the same Gravy Train as the politicians for years and ignore their utterances.

I wondered where the child benefit cut accusation came from with labour with no apparent reason.

The answer seems to be that SIPTU have 44% female members. So it Labours way of going after a demographic. Its a spin .

Isn't it a bit insulting to female voters to pull that crap in 2011.

Wilser1 · 20-02-2011 1:52pm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Good article about the links between Labour and the Unions, in yesterday's Indo.

Political donations?
Just look at the 5 workers in the Davenport Hotel who have had their contracts ripped up and offered new contracts with their minimum wage reduced by €1.
Their employer is no less than Noel O'Callaghan who generously donates to Fine Gael's election campaign. Thats the kind of country he wants, the poor made poorer and the wealthy, influential, who are able to pay €150 for dinner with Fine Gael, made wealthier.
An unfair, divided society.

Lockstep · 20-02-2011 2:01pm

CDfm wrote: »

Thats like saying the knights of columbanus arent affiliated to the catholic church.

In theory , of course it is true, but in practice they are one and the same

The Unions calls for people to vote labour is canvassing on a grand scale.

'The Unions' aren't a homogenous entity. The Independant article already noted that public sector unions had more to do with FF whereas private sector unions were affiliated with Labour. The public sector did well off FF during the Celtic Tiger and it is public sector workers who make up the majority of union members.

Proof that they are 'one and the same?'

ftnbase · 20-02-2011 2:11pm

Lockstep wrote: »

'The Unions' aren't a homogenous entity. The Independant article already noted that public sector unions had more to do with FF whereas private sector unions were affiliated with Labour. The public sector did well off FF during the Celtic Tiger.

Proof that they are 'one and the same?'

There are not too many Unions coming out to support FF, FG or SF.

The Unions were Labourites until they got on the Bertie Bandwagon for their own sake - there is no money left for the junkets so they are retrenching back to their roots in the hope that Gilmore and Labour will give them more handouts for their support.

Lest we forget many members of the old Workers Party (now Labour) were trade union officials.

Nothing changes.

Lockstep · 20-02-2011 2:14pm

ftnbase wrote: »

There are not too many Unions coming out to support FF, FG or SF.

The Unions were Labourites until they got on the Bertie Bandwagon for their own sake - there is no money left for the junkets so they are retrenching back to their roots in the hope that Gilmore and Labour will give them more handouts for their support.

Lest we forget many members of the old Workers Party (now Labour) were trade union officials.

Nothing changes.

Which unions are coming out in favour of Labour? Apart from SIPTU and IMPACT (who are both affiliated to Labour).

Permabear · 20-02-2011 2:21pm

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Lockstep · 20-02-2011 2:25pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Labour are still on a fair surge right now!
THey've dipped a bit in the polls but are still well, well above the 10% that they got in 2007, or even the 14% they got in 2009.

Permabear · 20-02-2011 2:32pm

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ftnbase · 20-02-2011 2:33pm

Lockstep wrote: »

Which unions are coming out in favour of Labour? Apart from SIPTU and IMPACT (who are both affiliated to Labour).

What about ICTU's Mr. Begg? ICTU represent more that SIPTU/IMPACT.

Lockstep · 20-02-2011 2:37pm

Permabear wrote: »

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As they're still polling over 20%? They havn't seen numbers like this since the Spring Tide.

ftnbase wrote: »

What about ICTU's Mr. Begg? ICTU represent more that SIPTU/IMPACT.

Is he backing Labour for the election?
I fully agree that ICTU represent more than SIPTU and IMPACT. Which is why I'll ask again which unions are backing Labour, apart from the ones who are already affiliated to them.

liveline · 20-02-2011 2:49pm

Lockstep wrote: »

As they're still polling over 20%? They havn't seen numbers like this since the Spring Tide.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0930/1224279988420.html

33% in September

A significant decline I would say

Lockstep · 20-02-2011 2:51pm

Yes, it is indeed a decline but it is still a very high level of support for Labour, they're currently polling over double what they got in 2007.

Permabear · 20-02-2011 3:11pm

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Lockstep · 20-02-2011 3:22pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Whereas today's Millward Brown Poll puts them on 20% and Tuesday's poll puts them on 23%.

Their vote has been fluctuating between 17% and 24% since the start of the month.

Permabear · 20-02-2011 3:29pm

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blue_steel · 20-02-2011 3:31pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Yeah because those disenfranchised former PD voters were always gonna turn to Labour weren't they

Whatever happens Labour are now the second biggest party in the state. Add to that a surging SF support and half a dozen ULA tds and a left wing government isn't far away.
Gilmore should go into opposition after the election and force FG to do a deal with FF. This will finally destroy the pretence that there is any difference between them, force an eventual amalgamation and lead to a right / left political divide like any normal country.

Lockstep · 20-02-2011 3:33pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Permabear wrote: »

But I would note that Red C had the most accurate pre-election polls in 2007. And they have Labour on 17 percent and trending downwards—which, given Gilmore's poor debate showings and the apparent backfiring of the unions' endorsement, seems pretty accurate to me. No way will Labour get 23 percent of the vote now.

The aggregate of polls puts Labour's support on around 19 and a half %, including their poll from this Thursday also had them on 17%. Not exactly trending downward.

Gilmore's debate showings weren't poor, he did well, as did all the other leaders. However, Gilmore went in with high expectations on him.
He did especially well in the TG4 debate. Did you see it?

Permabear · 20-02-2011 3:38pm

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liveline · 20-02-2011 3:41pm

blue_steel wrote: »

Yeah because those disenfranchised former PD voters were always gonna turn to Labour weren't they

Isn't Mae Sexton running for Labour?

blue_steel · 20-02-2011 3:45pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Never say never. If you seriously think that Ireland, alone from every country in Europe, will never have a socialist government you are deluding yourself.

Permabear · 20-02-2011 3:47pm

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gerryo777 · 20-02-2011 3:58pm

A prime example of unions messing things up is if you look at aer lingus & ryanair.
One is a company that even in a recession is making good profits, expanding its market, has one of the most modern fleets in the airline industry and is not bogged down by disputes, the other is aer lingus!!
Thank you jack oconnor & david begg for making my mind up about who I'll vote for next friday, up until last week it was going to be my local labour man but now, no chance! Not saying that it'll be FG but defo not FF or labour!

Permabear · 20-02-2011 3:59pm

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Permabear · 20-02-2011 4:06pm

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First Jack O'Connor, now David Begg - are the unions scared of FG

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