Why are we not using the salt from Carrickfergus?

n97 mini · 22-12-2010 1:58pm #1

That lad from the NRA with the American accent is forever talking about shipments of salt from Spain and other exotic locations, but most people don't seem to know that there's a massive salt mine on this island.

Why are we not using local salt?

http://www.irishsaltmining.com

Cookie_Monster · 22-12-2010 1:59pm

half a million tonnes a year, not like its a small producer or anything.
seems a bit odd that its not being used

Judgement Day · 22-12-2010 1:59pm

n97 mini wrote: »

That lad from the NRA with the American accent is forever talking about shipments of salt from Spain and other exotic locations, but most people don't seem to know that there's a massive salt mine on this island.

Why are we not using local salt?

http://www.irishsaltmining.com

I should think at this stage everybody but the NRA knows that there is a salt mine in Carrickfergus but this is Ireland and we do things differently. :rolleyes:

ardmacha · 22-12-2010 2:16pm

There is nothing odd about this, and some salt was obtained from Carrickfergus. But there is snow and ice all over northern Europe and a massive demand for salt. The Carrickfergus mine can sell all it can produce and more, you can't just say that it should stay in Ireland. Additional supplies have to be procured elsewhere and now they have been things should ease.

maximoose · 22-12-2010 2:19pm

Woah, I've lived in Carrickfergus for 22 years and didnt know we had a salt mine....

Bluetonic · 22-12-2010 2:27pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

I should think at this stage everybody but the NRA knows that there is a salt mine in Carrickfergus but this is Ireland and we do things differently. :rolleyes:

Carrickfergus is in the UK and supplies most of it's product to the UK market.

What's hard to understand about that?

Judgement Day · 22-12-2010 2:54pm

Bluetonic wrote: »

Carrickfergus is in the UK and supplies most of it's product to the UK market.

What's hard to understand about that?

Carrickfergus is on the island of Ireland - what's hard to understand about that? I would have thought it would have made sense to source a reliable local supply of salt after the January debacle but then I'm British and obviously think differently. :rolleyes:

n97 mini · 22-12-2010 3:15pm

Bluetonic wrote: »

Carrickfergus is in the UK and supplies most of it's product to the UK market.

What's hard to understand about that?

Nothing. But that's not the question.

Kilroot is a massive operation running all year around. Why isn't the majority of the NRA stock from this source?

I wonder what the Greens' opinion is of the size of the carbon footprint associated with shipping salt all the way from Spain.

steamengine · 22-12-2010 3:19pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Nothing. But that's not the question.

Kilroot is a massive operation running all year around. Why isn't the majority of the NRA stock from this source?

I wonder what the Greens' opinion is of the size of the carbon footprint associated with shipping salt all the way from Spain.

Be quiet !!! They might charter a sailing ship and the salt will never arrive !!!

22-12-2010 3:20pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Carrickfergus is on the island of Ireland - what's hard to understand about that? I would have thought it would have made sense to source a reliable local supply of salt after the January debacle but then I'm British and obviously think differently. :rolleyes:

Has there been any suggestion that the problems we have had with salt supplies have been caused by not using a 'local' source? What would using Carrickfergus have achieved? If it was cheaper and could match our needs, we'd already be using it. So there's obviously a reason for using a non-local supplier. You don't buy potatoes from Brazil if you can get them from your neighbour, unless your neighbour is selling them at twice the price

amacachi · 22-12-2010 3:38pm

28064212 wrote: »

Has there been any suggestion that the problems we have had with salt supplies have been caused by not using a 'local' source? What would using Carrickfergus have achieved? If it was cheaper and could match our needs, we'd already be using it. So there's obviously a reason for using a non-local supplier. You don't buy potatoes from Brazil if you can get them from your neighbour, unless your neighbour is selling them at twice the price

Oh gee, I dunno, maybe we wouldn't have to wait the extra few days for it to come through the med and up through the Bay of Biscay etc. I don't know, it's just an idea.

Judgement Day · 22-12-2010 3:38pm

28064212 wrote: »

Has there been any suggestion that the problems we have had with salt supplies have been caused by not using a 'local' source? What would using Carrickfergus have achieved? If it was cheaper and could match our needs, we'd already be using it. So there's obviously a reason for using a non-local supplier. You don't buy potatoes from Brazil if you can get them from your neighbour, unless your neighbour is selling them at twice the price

Are you seriously suggesting that it is easier to ship salt from North Africa rather than Carrickfergus? If you are then you should apply to the NRA for a job without delay. The salt mines in North Africa are probably owned by the brother in law of some well placed FF gombeen man - either that or brown envelopes have been involved. Only in Ireland!

AngryLips · 22-12-2010 3:45pm

:pac: we shouldn't be using any salt for grit until local salt can be acquired instead this carry-on where we're flushing money out of the country on foreign salt while there's plenty back home

22-12-2010 3:47pm

amacachi wrote: »

Oh gee, I dunno, maybe we wouldn't have to wait the extra few days for it to come through the med and up through the Bay of Biscay etc. I don't know, it's just an idea.

You think there's just a load of salt sitting there waiting to be taken if only someone wanted it?

Judgement Day wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that it is easier to ship salt from North Africa rather than Carrickfergus?

Are you seriously suggesting the only reason we're not buying local is because of some FF conspiracy?

What benefits would buying from Carrickfergus have brought us? How much is a tonne of salt from there as opposed to from North Africa? How much is the transport costs per tonne? What does your cost analysis say? Or are you just making stuff up?

The failings of the government in the current weather are down to poor planning, it's nothing to do with the source of the salt

amacachi · 22-12-2010 3:49pm

28064212 wrote: »

You think there's just a load of salt sitting there waiting to be taken if only someone wanted it?

No, I would assume that there's something of a market in effect, and that if willing to pay a little more than we're paying for salt from another bloody continent we'd have it quicker. You've seen what the lack of salt has already cost yes?

The source of the salt is part of the poor planning.

22-12-2010 3:54pm

amacachi wrote: »

No, I would assume that there's something of a market in effect, and that if willing to pay a little more than we're paying for salt from another bloody continent we'd have it quicker.

No, we wouldn't. If we put in an order for 20,000 tonnes of salt to the Carrickfergus mine for December 10th, we would get 20,000 tonnes of salt on December 10th. If we realised on December 1st we didn't have any left for the next 10 days, we would not be able to somehow magically speed up that order because "we really need it". In the meantime, we're wasting money on salt we could have gotten cheaper elsewhere

Replace Carrickfergus with any mine and it makes absolutely no difference

Monty Burnz · 22-12-2010 3:56pm

n97 mini wrote: »

That lad from the NRA with the American accent is forever talking about shipments of salt from Spain and other exotic locations, but most people don't seem to know that there's a massive salt mine on this island.

Why are we not using local salt?

http://www.irishsaltmining.com

On a side note, that website looks like it was made by FAS trainee in 1994.

amacachi · 22-12-2010 3:58pm

28064212 wrote: »

No, we wouldn't. If we put in an order for 20,000 tonnes of salt to the Carrickfergus mine for December 10th, we would get 20,000 tonnes of salt on December 10th. If we realised on December 1st we didn't have any left for the next 10 days, we would not be able to somehow magically speed up that order because "we really need it". In the meantime, we're wasting money on salt we could have gotten cheaper elsewhere

Replace Carrickfergus with any mine and it makes absolutely no difference

So they have a set price list and that's that? Sounds a bit silly of them when they could've made a nice extra profit over the last while.
Odd that the mine in Africa seems to be able to fulfill orders as soon as they get them though while the one here is far more inefficient.

Plazaman · 22-12-2010 4:00pm

Yeah was listening to the American NRA Guy on Matt Cooper who tried his best to rile him with the question "Hold on, you mean to say we're importing salt from Morocco (which is where todays shipment is coming from seemingly) and the Salt Mine in Northern Ireland is exporting to the UK?". But he held his ground and explained that WE ARE getting some salt shipments from Carrickfergus but they have other customers too. After all it is a commercial business and they're making more money selling it abroad than to Ireland. "Will ya give us a couple of thousand tons of salt like a good lad since we're all on the same island together" just doesn't cut it.

22-12-2010 4:01pm

amacachi wrote: »

So they have a set price list and that's that? Sounds a bit silly of them when they could've made a nice extra profit over the last while.
Odd that the mine in Africa seems to be able to fulfill orders as soon as they get them though while the one here is far more inefficient.

When were the orders put in? How much spare production does Carrickfergus have? How fast can they react? Do you have any clue whatsoever?

amacachi · 22-12-2010 4:03pm

28064212 wrote: »

When were the orders put in? How much spare production does Carrickfergus have? How fast can they react? Do you have any clue whatsoever?

I'm assuming you have more of a clue than me but are holding back on details but just waving your hands instead.

22-12-2010 4:08pm

amacachi wrote: »

I'm assuming you have more of a clue than me but are holding back on details but just waving your hands instead.

Where did I claim I knew anything about the salt business? You're the one who's saying the current process is completely wrong and that we should be buying from Carrickfergus, but you haven't given any reason beyond "they're local". How would the situation be any better if Carrickfergus was our supplier instead of North Africa? Would it be cheaper? Faster? How?

n97 mini · 22-12-2010 4:10pm

Hello

Can you tell me what quantities of salt were purchased, and from where, so far this year?

Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Public sector bodies are generally useless at answering emails, and I'm expecting the NRA to be no different.

dowlingm · 22-12-2010 4:12pm

Is it the "wrong" type of salt? i.e. with crystalline structures too fine to be usefully spread? Even if it was, that shouldn't prevent salt brines assuming local councils have the vehicles to spread them.

In any case, sole dependence on salt, which is environmentally damaging, corrosive to vehicles and concrete forms and is useless below about -13C, is a bad idea. Toronto Pearson airport uses sodium formate and for household use mixtures of salt and calcium chloride are used which are effective to the -25/-30C range.

However, if Ireland still had a sugar beet industry, this could be used to reduce salt dependence.

Judgement Day · 22-12-2010 4:16pm

28064212 wrote: »

When were the orders put in? How much spare production does Carrickfergus have? How fast can they react? Do you have any clue whatsoever?

Do you - you seem to be able to speak with great authority? :rolleyes:

Judgement Day · 22-12-2010 4:18pm

dowlingm wrote: »

Is it the "wrong" type of salt? i.e. with crystalline structures too fine to be usefully spread? Even if it was, that shouldn't prevent salt brines assuming local councils have the vehicles to spread them.

In any case, sole dependence on salt, which is environmentally damaging, corrosive to vehicles and concrete forms and is useless below about -13C, is a bad idea. Toronto Pearson airport uses sodium formate and for household use mixtures of salt and calcium chloride are used which are effective to the -25/-30C range.

However, if Ireland still had a sugar beet industry, this could be used to reduce salt dependence.

Something like the wrong kind of leaves?

Of course it must be the wrong kind of salt that's why the stupid British want it.

22-12-2010 4:18pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Do you - you seem to be able to speak with great authority? :rolleyes:

Answered previously ^

I'm not the one claiming that the current process is wrong when I've no knowledge of it

Judgement Day · 22-12-2010 4:21pm

28064212 wrote: »

Answered previously ^

I'm not the one claiming that the current process is wrong when I've no knowledge of it

No you're the one claiming the current process is correct when you've no knowledge of it.

amacachi · 22-12-2010 4:21pm

28064212 wrote: »

Where did I claim I knew anything about the salt business? You're the one who's saying the current process is completely wrong and that we should be buying from Carrickfergus, but you haven't given any reason beyond "they're local". How would the situation be any better if Carrickfergus was our supplier instead of North Africa? Would it be cheaper? Faster? How?

Time = Distance/Speed.
Now we're hoping obviously to minimise speed. Mathematically we could do this by differentiating etc. but for simplicity let's just look at the two components on the RHS of the equation as they are. In order to minimise the time we need to minimise distance and/or maximise the speed of delivery. I would take a massive stab in the dark and guess (I haven't verified this on Google maps or anything) that Carrickfergus is closer to most if not all of the places we need to get the salt to. I'll also take a guess that lorries will travel at least close to the same speed that ships laden with Salt would do.
Bearing these two things in mind, I imagine that "they're local" is quite a good reason to buy from there instead.
It's odd that the UK were able to up their orders overnight with no problem while the NRA couldn't do so.
There are a couple of reasons I can think that this is the case.
A) The NRA wasn't willing to pay a higher price for the salt than they're accustomed to or

They're locked into something with the mine they're been purchasing from until now.

There is another option, one which perhaps you believe, that there was no extra capacity in Carrickfergus. This doesn't seem to hold up too well when they increased their output.

nordydan · 22-12-2010 4:29pm

n97 mini wrote: »

That lad from the NRA with the American accent is forever talking about shipments of salt from Spain and other exotic locations, but most people don't seem to know that there's a massive salt mine on this island.

Why are we not using local salt?

http://www.irishsaltmining.com

Free staters are very a la carte about Irishness

Cookie_Monster · 22-12-2010 4:31pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Public sector bodies are generally useless at answering emails, and I'm expecting the NRA to be no different.

from NRA:

hello,
that commercially sensitive info and will not be given out...

is my bet on the answer

Why are we not using the salt from Carrickfergus?

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