Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Kevin Myers writes anti-Metro column (x4) [SEE MOD WARNING POST #1]

Options
124678

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Perhaps Myers is ranting on a bit and doesn't address the real nub of the problem but at the end of the day he is tapping into public sentiment on the project. It is a reactionary infrastructure project that seems to be made up and changed as we go along - is it a metro to the airport (it was once), is it serving Swords and happens to pass by the airport yada yada.

    The bottom line is that the Metro North is a bizarre and poorly thought out project and one wonders is it be pushed to keep the RPA quango staff busy and in business.

    Unfortunately, we have a record of building infrastructure that is poorly planned and doesn't seem to be part of a greater scheme. Take the the recent Samuel Beckett bridge - lovely bridge but everybody is left scratching their heads as to why it was built. If there was a long term and strategic goal then perhaps they could have shared it with the public. In any other city the powers that be would be marketing this bridge as the solution to a problem that we should be thankful for. In Dublin it's not even sign posted.

    Until we start planning strategically and selling the benefits to the public, it's no wonder that the public and commentators are going to be derisory about our 'make it up as you go along' infrastructure projects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Empire o de Sun


    BrianD wrote: »
    Unfortunately, we have a record of building infrastructure that is poorly planned and doesn't seem to be part of a greater scheme. Take the the recent Samuel Beckett bridge - lovely bridge but everybody is left scratching their heads as to why it was built. If there was a long term and strategic goal then perhaps they could have shared it with the public. In any other city the powers that be would be marketing this bridge as the solution to a problem that we should be thankful for. In Dublin it's not even sign posted.


    Since when do Dublin City Council signpost anywhere? The only stick up a few route numbers on lamp posts and think that is good enough. Areas/suburbs aren't clearly marked, which leads to allot of "addresses of convenience"


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    BrianD wrote: »
    Perhaps Myers is ranting on a bit and doesn't address the real nub of the problem but at the end of the day he is tapping into public sentiment on the project. It is a reactionary infrastructure project that seems to be made up and changed as we go along - is it a metro to the airport (it was once), is it serving Swords and happens to pass by the airport yada yada.

    Its a metro line serving north Dublin via the airport, which interchanges with other modes along the route. It IS simple. Its just yer average uninformed chump on the street who is confused about it, and you shouldn't let that demographic dictate national transport policy!

    Shame on you Myers for dazzling that wrong headed mob mentality with your pretty words, just to feather your own nest. Typical self-obsessed Irishman! No wonder this country was so easy to conquer with the selfish elite interest always coming before the peoples.
    The bottom line is that the Metro North is a bizarre and poorly thought out project and one wonders is it be pushed to keep the RPA quango staff busy and in business.

    Its not bizarre though, its very rational. Perhaps TOO rational for an Ireland that builds surface trams on congested medieval streets and motorways to every Ballyboghole in the country. Its a breath of fresh air is what it is.

    Unfortunately its tainted with the foul stench of this lame duck govt. But don't let that fool you, its a good project.
    Unfortunately, we have a record of building infrastructure that is poorly planned and doesn't seem to be part of a greater scheme. Take the the recent Samuel Beckett bridge - lovely bridge but everybody is left scratching their heads as to why it was built. If there was a long term and strategic goal then perhaps they could have shared it with the public. In any other city the powers that be would be marketing this bridge as the solution to a problem that we should be thankful for. In Dublin it's not even sign posted.

    Until we start planning strategically and selling the benefits to the public, it's no wonder that the public and commentators are going to be derisory about our 'make it up as you go along' infrastructure projects.

    I agree planning in this kip is god awful. Vested interests have gotten in the way of simple solutions.

    Unfortunately, and predictably, our govt just begrudgingly built a couple of low spec tram lines, instead of a proper, integrated mass transit system.

    Meanwhile they emptied the national coffers on property speculation and the neverending junket tour. Such is our fat, indulgent leadership.

    But we have to work with what we now have, which is a disconected suburban rail/tram system. Ultimately, MN/DU is the solution to that. I am not a fan of this govt but I want to see these projects built, whoever forms the next govt. We've already spend millions designing them, and another 5 years of complaining won't improve the basic concept.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Its a metro line serving north Dublin via the airport, which interchanges with other modes along the route. It IS simple. Its just yer average uninformed chump on the street who is confused about it, and you shouldn't let that demographic dictate national transport policy!

    Shame on you Myers for dazzling that wrong headed mob mentality with your pretty words, just to feather your own nest. Typical self-obsessed Irishman! No wonder this country was so easy to conquer with the selfish elite interest always coming before the peoples.



    Its not bizarre though, its very rational. Perhaps TOO rational for an Ireland that builds surface trams on congested medieval streets and motorways to every Ballyboghole in the country. Its a breath of fresh air is what it is.

    Unfortunately its tainted with the foul stench of this lame duck govt. But don't let that fool you, its a good project.



    I agree planning in this kip is god awful. Vested interests have gotten in the way of simple solutions.

    Unfortunately, and predictably, our govt just begrudgingly built a couple of low spec tram lines, instead of a proper, integrated mass transit system.

    Meanwhile they emptied the national coffers on property speculation and the neverending junket tour. Such is our fat, indulgent leadership.

    But we have to work with what we now have, which is a disconected suburban rail/tram system. Ultimately, MN/DU is the solution to that. I am not a fan of this govt but I want to see these projects built, whoever forms the next govt. We've already spend millions designing them, and another 5 years of complaining won't improve the basic concept.

    I agree with your sentiments and opinion entirely, but neither MN or DU will happen this side of 2020 and after that expect a possible re-invention of the wheel. Im serious.;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    Its a metro line serving north Dublin via the airport, which interchanges with other modes along the route. It IS simple. Its just yer average uninformed chump on the street who is confused about it, and you shouldn't let that demographic dictate national transport policy!

    I disagree. In other countries you have project leadership and the public are sold on what exactly it is and what benefits it will deliver even though it will takes years of construction and will be a big inconvenience while it is.

    Here the Metro North has changed guise so many times, the powers that be seem to take a hands off approach (in case they lose votes from the nimby brigade) and only turn up to cut ribbons. Metro North has changed objective so many times that it is no wonder the public are confused. I would argue that Myers (though he's not a fan of the project for other reasons) is echoing this.

    It's similar to the Samuel Beckett bridge but nobody from the council has clearly explained what it's purpose is in the overall city infrastructure other than another bridge across the river. It's no wonder that people are confused to its purpose (why they can't make right turns etc) and think its a some what linked to revenue protection at the east link. had the job been done properly there would be a lot of motorists changing their route to avail of it instead of discovering by accident.

    A big part of public transport and infrastructure is that it needs to be marketed properly and strongly to the public to gain their confidence. This is what your getting and this is why it will make our city better. Instead the public are left scratching their head as to where exactly the Metro North and what it will do for them other than the fear of their house falling into a tunnel.
    The Government and RPA have failed in this respect and it's no wonder that media commentary is negative towards the project.

    Then again, they do this kind of thing well in Germany and I read that there was huge protests in Stuttgart over the construction of a new railway station on the site of an old one. Takes all sorts1


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    BrianD wrote: »
    I disagree. In other countries you have project leadership and the public are sold on what exactly it is and what benefits it will deliver even though it will takes years of construction and will be a big inconvenience while it is.

    Here the Metro North has changed guise so many times, the powers that be seem to take a hands off approach (in case they lose votes from the nimby brigade) and only turn up to cut ribbons. Metro North has changed objective so many times that it is no wonder the public are confused. I would argue that Myers (though he's not a fan of the project for other reasons) is echoing this.

    It's similar to the Samuel Beckett bridge but nobody from the council has clearly explained what it's purpose is in the overall city infrastructure other than another bridge across the river. It's no wonder that people are confused to its purpose (why they can't make right turns etc) and think its a some what linked to revenue protection at the east link. had the job been done properly there would be a lot of motorists changing their route to avail of it instead of discovering by accident.

    A big part of public transport and infrastructure is that it needs to be marketed properly and strongly to the public to gain their confidence. This is what your getting and this is why it will make our city better. Instead the public are left scratching their head as to where exactly the Metro North and what it will do for them other than the fear of their house falling into a tunnel.
    The Government and RPA have failed in this respect and it's no wonder that media commentary is negative towards the project.

    Then again, they do this kind of thing well in Germany and I read that there was huge protests in Stuttgart over the construction of a new railway station on the site of an old one. Takes all sorts1

    Hmm. While I'd agree that the govt are poor at promoting these things properly, I don't quite see how Metro North has "changed guise so many times".

    Its always followed the same basic format City-Airport-Swords. Yes they should have linked it to the green line, but that issue aside, its really is very straightforward.

    I think whats really happening is that vested interests are trying their damndest to smear this project, so that it ultimately falls by the wayside, and they are using every lame ass excuse they can find. These people may or may not have a clue if the Metro is actually a good thing or not. That's beside the point it seems.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    BrianD, I'm really confused as to what it is that you're confused about :)

    It's true that the project changed slightly - in Platform for Change 1999, it was meant to go to Swords via Finglas. This was changed to Ballymun in Transport21 in 2005. But apart from that, it's exactly the same. I've never heard negative commentary about the project from ANYONE (at all!) until the Kevin Myers article - Boards excepted, but this is a discussion forum after all, so I expect that.

    There's no confusion out there about what this is as far as I've gathered. It's appeared in the media countless times. There have been loads of public consultations. People are just wondering when it's going to start really. Even the cost is generally only speculated upon by journalists like Frank McD, etc. though Michael O'Leary got his gab in at one point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    spacetweek wrote: »
    BrianD, I'm really confused as to what it is that you're confused about :)

    It's true that the project changed slightly - in Platform for Change 1999, it was meant to go to Swords via Finglas. This was changed to Ballymun in Transport21 in 2005. But apart from that, it's exactly the same. I've never heard negative commentary about the project from ANYONE (at all!) until the Kevin Myers article - Boards excepted, but this is a discussion forum after all, so I expect that.

    There's no confusion out there about what this is as far as I've gathered. It's appeared in the media countless times. There have been loads of public consultations. People are just wondering when it's going to start really. Even the cost is generally only speculated upon by journalists like Frank McD, etc. though Michael O'Leary got his gab in at one point.

    Are you serious?

    Metro "north" may have undergone a few changes, but the Metro "project" (which was always essentially a line running north/south/north etc.) has undergone a lot of changes. Its not exactly the same by any means. For example Luas green line was meant to be part of the "metro". The route through the north city was originally via Botanic road. The planned redevelopment of Mountjoy Prison influenced it. The planned redevelopment of the Smurfit site in Glasnevin had a bearing on it. Even the proposed location of a new Childrens hospital beside the Mater inflenced it.

    BrianD is right. The ordinary people of Dublin havent a clue what its about. Just because you know and some boardsies know, its not indicative of public perception and/or opinion. The general population of Dublin havent a feckin iota of whats going on. Talk to them. I did and then went to a meeting with the RPA after a meeting with the original consultants to tell them what people think. Result? Dropped jaws and patronising dismissal. But they did re-route it via Drumcondra rail station.:D

    Real life is a lot different to this forum and we must always accept that rather than dismiss it as an inconvenience.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    Are you serious?

    Metro "north" may have undergone a few changes, but the Metro "project" (which was always essentially a line running north/south/north etc.) has undergone a lot of changes. Its not exactly the same by any means. For example Luas green line was meant to be part of the "metro". The route through the north city was originally via Botanic road. The planned redevelopment of Mountjoy Prison influenced it. The planned redevelopment of the Smurfit site in Glasnevin had a bearing on it. Even the proposed location of a new Childrens hospital beside the Mater inflenced it.

    Real life is a lot different to this forum and we must always accept that rather than dismiss it as an inconvenience.
    I know about the Botanic Rd/Drumcondra faffing about, but that was just a minor route selection issue. And surely the upgrade of the Luas Green line was always going to be a separate project? I assumed it was.

    I *am* talking about the public's perception, not mine or Boards users'.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭dynamick


    The Sunday Business Post ran an editorial last weekend against the metro, probably based on Myers article.

    http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/shelve-metro-north-51309.html

    The points are briefly:
    1. It will cost billions but the country is broke
    2. We could run more buses up the tunnel to the airport instead of a metro
    3. The cost benefit ratio is probably very poor
    4. Many other projects have better cost benefit ratios: schools/hospitals

    The counterarguments as you all know are:
    1. We are investing 5.5 billion a year in capital projects even now and have budgeted to do so until 2016. Metro North will take up about 170 million per year for 30 years
    2. More buses in the tunnel is a good answer for purely airport-city transport but the airport will only account for a small fraction of MN's ridership
    3. The cost benefit ratio is unknown because the costs will only be known when the bidders have made their final offers. RPA had predicted a BCR of 1.31 calculated when costs were higher
    4. Simply stating that other projects have better BCRs without looking at the numbers is uninformed guessing.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Empire o de Sun


    Dublin cannot afford to not have a rail line to the airport and serving all the other places along the way. It's daft not to plan for the future. Ireland is broke, I know, I left cos it is, but in 5 years when the recession is over and traffic levels climb back through the roof, (the same) people (who called for it to be canceled) will be crying for a rail line in the north city.

    I will take a good few years to build it and is worth it's weight in gold.

    It will pay for itself, help the economy grow and generate wealth in the country


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,327 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    the funny thing about the SBP being myopic about MN's traffic generators is how at least a few of their journos are ex-DCU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    I would have to agree with the SBP. Absolutely INSANE to be going ahead with this metro. Call in the IMF.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    Dublin cannot afford to not have a rail line to the airport and serving all the other places along the way. It's daft not to plan for the future. Ireland is broke, I know, I left cos it is, but in 5 years when the recession is over and traffic levels climb back through the roof, (the same) people (who called for it to be canceled) will be crying for a rail line in the north city.

    I will take a good few years to build it and is worth it's weight in gold.

    It will pay for itself, help the economy grow and generate wealth in the country

    Exactly, the phrase 'penny wise, pound foolish' springs to mind.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭dynamick


    liammur wrote: »
    I would have to agree with the SBP. Absolutely INSANE to be going ahead with this metro. Call in the IMF.
    'It's INSANE' isn't really an argument though is it? The IMF won't be coming into Ireland as the country is being run by the ECB and the commission. As the EIB has announced that it will lend 500m of the project funding this is a clear EU project endorsement.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    spacetweek wrote: »
    BrianD, I'm really confused as to what it is that you're confused about :)

    It's true that the project changed slightly - in Platform for Change 1999, it was meant to go to Swords via Finglas. This was changed to Ballymun in Transport21 in 2005. But apart from that, it's exactly the same. I've never heard negative commentary about the project from ANYONE (at all!) until the Kevin Myers article - Boards excepted, but this is a discussion forum after all, so I expect that.

    There's no confusion out there about what this is as far as I've gathered. It's appeared in the media countless times. There have been loads of public consultations. People are just wondering when it's going to start really. Even the cost is generally only speculated upon by journalists like Frank McD, etc. though Michael O'Leary got his gab in at one point.

    Confused? Take a read of this particularly topic thread and you'll find considerable variations of the route and how it evolved. Then don't forgot that the Metro North was going to be an Airport-City link until the powers that be got sense and made it a city-swords line that would swing by the airport. I don't recall a Swords via Finglas route but what a bizarre round about route to select. Too many variations over the years and not enough selling to the public. I bet if you did a survey in Dublin few people would know exactly where it's going.

    Even here there is talk about the Green Line being a metro route. There's no substance to this at all so faras I can see and this was a story that came out of spacings of the tracks on the green line. I do recall a proposal to make the greenline one of those guided bus ways but never a metro.

    The RPA really should start marketing their plans to the public. If they did this then they would have public support that would turn into political support for the project. There are countless cities that do this really well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    The man just keeps going. From today's paper:
    I return once again to Metro North -- aka Necro North -- with my only apology being that I didn't get on to the subject far, far earlier. For this is, without doubt, the greatest folly that has ever been proposed for Dublin: indeed, such is its scale that it has dumfounded most people into an inert acquiescence.

    Moreover, it is the Single Big Idea still remaining of this Government and, as such, cannot be allowed to fail. But it has to: otherwise it could effectively bankrupt what remains of this Republic as we become the first failed state in Europe since the collapse of the Third Reich.

    Indeed, the sheer massiveness of Necro North has something of the Third Reich about it. It is proposed to dig a vast hole at St Stephen's Green to create a joint DART/Luas underground station. Needless to say, the park will be closed for the duration of the project -- as, inevitably, will most commercial life around the Green, including the National Concert Hall, while 400 lorry-movements a day remove soil. And not just for a few economically bloody weeks, but for TWO YEARS.

    What's really fascinating is that this proposal emanates from the Greens, because they are committed to public transport by rail as an ideological dogma. But this is not just any kind of rail: it runs underground, which means that a tunnel will be built to Dublin Airport, essentially parallel to the existing, and already under-utilised, port tunnel. Let's use the Chesapeake Tunnel as a comparison. Its 23 miles required 100 million tonnes of concrete. The Necro North tunnel, however, will probably be one-third the length of the Chesapeake. Let's be conservative, and call it a quarter.

    That means 25 million tonnes of concrete, for the tunnel alone, and not including the stations (least of all the huge Dart-Luas underground interchange at the Green). Roughly 20pc of concrete is cement, which means around five million tonnes. But cement-manufacture is one the most CO2-intensive processes known to man. So, making five million tonnes of cement releases some four millions tonnes of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.

    But the whole country produced just 70 million tonnes of carbon dioxide in 2006 -- levels already more than 25pc higher than the allowable emissions for the period 2008-2012, according to our submission to the UN climate change authorities. Yet instead of cutting emissions, we are proposing a scheme that will probably add 6pc to them through cement manufacture alone.

    And that's before we consider the CO2 emissions created by the building of huge underground stations along the way, starting at the Green, or the emissions caused by the tens of thousands of lorry movements a day, or by the colossal sand and gravel extraction operations that will be required to make the tens of millions of tonnes of concrete.

    For what? To build an underground tube from Dublin Airport to St Stephen's Green, where nobody lives, where there is no traffic hub, and where only government departments have their offices. But the Green is not merely the biological heart of the city: it is, furthermore, what gives life to Grafton Street. And who is going to shop there while the Green resembles the Chicxulub meteorite crater that wiped out the dinosaurs, especially while there are relatively attractive, JCB-free suburban shopping malls closer to home?

    I haven't mentioned -- because I hardly know how to -- the simultaneous proposal to build an underground Dart line from Heuston Station to the Docklands. And this is before we even consider the financial burden of the Metro. Official estimates declare that it will "cost" €5bn, ha ha ha. For remember, the "cost" of the Dublin Port Tunnel went from €220m in 2000 to a final €789m: a 350pc increase. The M50 widening increased from €190m to €560m: 300pc. The Luas went up from €290m to €750m: 350pc. Et cetera.

    So this is how Pakistan must feel: floods, earthquakes, plagues, Taliban and test-match fixing, all on the one day. The difference is that for us, our woes are not caused by a merciless nature, or by corrupt players or by enemy action: no, this is all government policy. Pinch me, someone.

    There are three major reasons why the Necro North nightmare is -- apparently -- going ahead. The first is that the smirking mandarin classes have closed ranks around it. The second is that the tax-paying public is punch-drunk from bad news and probably wouldn't raise a whimper if Lough Corrib was concreted over for use as a Chinese missile base. The third is that the Greens, who should be wholly against Necro North because of the colossal greenhouse gas emissions that it will cause, are actually its major backers. This is rather like the Vatican urging priests and nuns to have unprotected anal sex to protect them from AIDS.

    So we don't need BP to go prospecting for oil in our waters to face ruin. Necro North will probably do the job unassisted.

    kmyers@independent.ie

    - Kevin Myers

    Irish Independent
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-we-dont-need-bp-to-go-prospecting-in-our-waters-to-face-ruin-metro-north-will-do-it-2319379.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    Furet wrote: »

    You'd think no other project in the country had used concrete before the way he goes on. Something about omlettes and eggs comes to mind.
    He claims nobody lives in St.Stephens green, I suppose he is comparing it to the throngs of people who live on Amiens street...


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    You know your in trouble with your argument when Godwin's law is invoked.
    So this is how Pakistan must feel: floods, earthquakes, plagues, Taliban and test-match fixing, all on the one day. The difference is that for us, our woes are not caused by a merciless nature, or by corrupt players or by enemy action: no, this is all government policy. Pinch me, someone.
    Invoking a tragedy in which 1000's have died and millions have been misplaced, your a classy man Kevin.
    The third is that the Greens, who should be wholly against Necro North because of the colossal greenhouse gas emissions that it will cause, are actually its major backers
    I'm pretty sure over it's life time of more than 5 minutes it will end up saving greenhouse gas emissions


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    The Chesapeake 'Tunnel' is largely a bridge, built on supporting concrete columns. No wonder it used so much bloody concrete... :mad:

    There is something Third Reich about all this, namely that this guy needs to be taken out.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭Sulmac


    What a load of rubbish.
    For what? To build an underground tube from Dublin Airport to St Stephen's Green, where nobody lives, where there is no traffic hub, and where only government departments have their offices.

    Ah, the old notion that the line will only have two stations.

    He contradicts himself too. Stephen's Green will become a traffic hub with the Metro, DART and Luas services - he even acknowledges this in the same article:
    ...the simultaneous proposal to build an underground Dart line from Heuston Station to the Docklands.

    Also, "where nobody lives"? Okay, so the northside of the city and Swords, one of the fastest growing towns in western Europe (the population increased by over 25% between the 2002 and 2006 censuses), have "nobody" living there?

    I'm not even going to start on the "where government departments have their offices" bit, because it will just insult everyone's intelligence.

    You're fooling nobody, Kevin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    BrianD wrote: »

    Even here there is talk about the Green Line being a metro route. There's no substance to this at all so faras I can see and this was a story that came out of spacings of the tracks on the green line. I do recall a proposal to make the greenline one of those guided bus ways but never a metro.

    Just to clarify matters Brian. Construction of luas was delayed by the incoming Goverment of 1997 due to a disagreement over whether or not the city centre link up between lines should be under or over ground. A new report was commissioned. :rolleyes: Then it was decided that the green line would be converted to metro at a later date and the link up provided that way. That is why the two lines are not connected and why the distance between up and down running lines (not the guage) on the green line is wider. The thinking at the time was that metro carraiges would be wider than luas carraiges. Of course nobody gave much thought to how it would be kept open and converted at the same time. So now metro starts under Stephens Green.

    But you are correct that metro north (as its known since November 05) had a number of routes throughout the process. The guided busway first came to prominance in the mid 70s as part of the DART plans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    I dunno I think Myers has got some bloody good points, I can't get my head around this hole in Dublin City Centre for two years either, i also can't work out why Luas never just ran straight on down Grafton Street across College green, straight up O'connel street (interchanging with luas at Abbey Street) then turn a right for the airport down dorset street and on to the airport- it would save an awful lot tunnelling.

    If you really need to get to the airport quickly use a taxi and go via the port tunnel. I reckon this extended airport luas would take about half an hour from St Stephens Green - is that a great hardship.

    Myers does shoot from the hip. but at least he knows we are fooked, we are broke and he can say what he likes because borrowing 1.5 billion every four weeks to keep this country going means, we ain't going to have an elected government soon and we ain't going to build no metros. I give it till Paddys Day next year. The Germans won't let Metro go ahead cos they won't pay for it anymore.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Over the past week or so i have had several associates give out to me using the usual false logic arguments about what a waste of money MN is during the usual moan about the Government chat.

    I was initially puzzled as to why suddenly it had become such a hot topic with my work mates and - et viola- i come across this thread and all questions were answered. The King of the WUMs and patron of the barstool experts - the one and only Myerzy - has written a series of Metro articles, replete with nonsense like no one lives in Stephens Green, which the deluded Indo readership seem to have lapped up.

    Another triumph for the single mother hater.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    westtip wrote: »
    I dunno I think Myers has got some bloody good points, I can't get my head around this hole in Dublin City Centre for two years either
    What is there to get your head around ? In order to get underground you need to dig a hole in the ground.
    westtip wrote: »
    i also can't work out why Luas never just ran straight on down Grafton Street across College green, straight up O'connel street (interchanging with luas at Abbey Street) then turn a right for the airport down dorset street and on to the airport- it would save an awful lot tunnelling.
    Because Grafton St is one of the main shopping streets in Ireland!
    Dorset st to the airport ? How via where Glasnevin , Finglas ,Ballymun? M
    westtip wrote: »
    If you really need to get to the airport quickly use a taxi and go via the port tunnel.
    MN is Green to Sword and onwards not just the Airport
    westtip wrote: »
    I reckon this extended airport luas would take about half an hour from St Stephens Green - is that a great hardship.
    MN will do the Airport in 22 minutes . No way a Luas would go from the Green to the Airport in 30 min
    westtip wrote: »
    Myers does shoot from the hip. but at least he knows we are fooked, we are broke and he can say what he likes because borrowing 1.5 billion every four weeks to keep this country going means, we ain't going to have an elected government soon and we ain't going to build no metros. I give it till Paddys Day next year. The Germans won't let Metro go ahead cos they won't pay for it anymore.
    MN will require little money up front and will take create job thus saving us dole money which should help our borrowings and increasing our tax intake


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭oharach


    westtip wrote: »
    I dunno I think Myers has got some bloody good points, I can't get my head around this hole in Dublin City Centre for two years either,

    If it's any consolation, it won't be as bad as this hole in the main square in Frankfurt in 1966

    Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F022878-0001%2C_Frankfurt-Main%2C_Bau_der_Untergrundbahn.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    If anyone reads the indo regularly they'll know Kevin myers is just a wind up merchant who lectures on topics he knows nothing about. It's like giving a stereotypical Joe Duffy caller a newspaper column.
    He needs to be controversial (talk shìte) so people will talk about his articles and the indo will sell more papers.
    Unfortunately this sells more papers than facts, but this type of rubbish journalism has a lot to answer for


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Johnny Utah


    More horse sh1te from the real-life troll that is Kevin Myers, but then why let a few salient facts get in the way of a good rant. :rolleyes:

    (1) MN is not a railway line to the airport. It is a railway line which serves a number of important areas in north Dublin (Mater, Croke Park, Swords), including Dublin airport. MN needs to be viewed as part of an overall transport network which will transform the city.

    (2) MN will not cost €5bn. More accurate estimates gauge the project costing under €2bn.

    (3) It will be built under PPP, and consequently, it is most likely to at least be completed on time and on budget.

    (4) Stephen's Green will not be closed for two years. Only the north-west corner of Stephen's Green will be closed during construction of the underground station. A small number of trees on the north of the Green will be felled, but these will replaced afterwards. When construction is finished, the Green will be fully restored as it is now.

    (5) The impact on commercial life around Stephen's Green during construction will be minimal. However, the legacy of having a vital underground rail hub at Stephen's Green will be hugely beneficial in the long-term.

    (6) The National Concert Hall is located on Earlsfort Terrace, quite some distance away from the NW corner of Stephen's Green.

    (7) MN & DU are absolutely vital to the infrastructure of this State. They simply have to go ahead, and they will go ahead. I predict that both will be operational by 2018. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    "Let me admit now that I don't understand anything about economics."
    - Kevin Myers


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    We're like a gambler totally out of control. These projects need to be stopped.


Advertisement