Help with Freeview across the sea to Co.Down?

reboot · 31-07-2010 4:09pm #1

Having problems holding on to Welsh channels across the sea to S.Down.
Tried a variety of aerials and amps,is it a waste of time and money expecting signals to remain steady when propagation conditions are so variable?
Doesn't have to be Welsh Freeview,although with an eye to HD,they seem the best bet at the moment,but no mention so far on the guide.
A wide band aerial and amp can bring in over a hundred services,but not for long.

lawhec · 31-07-2010 9:50pm

There's been an unconfirmed (though likely to be reliable as it came from a broadcast engineer) report of DTT reception from the Winter Hill transmitter after DSO took place there earlier this year in parts of the East Down coast that had a clear view of the Irish Sea. Winter Hill serves the NW of England (Manchester, Liverpool, Blackburn, Preston etc) and parts of North Wales, so it may be worth a shot. Again propagation may prove to be a factor in reliable long-term reception.

reboot · 01-08-2010 9:35am

lawhec wrote: »

There's been an unconfirmed (though likely to be reliable as it came from a broadcast engineer) report of DTT reception from the Winter Hill transmitter after DSO took place there earlier this year in parts of the East Down coast that had a clear view of the Irish Sea. Winter Hill serves the NW of England (Manchester, Liverpool, Blackburn, Preston etc) and parts of North Wales, so it may be worth a shot. Again propagation may prove to be a factor in reliable long-term reception.

Many thanks for the prompt and encouraging reply,will look it up,give it a go and post reply.Can't see Divis from here so its Sky or nothing.A Freeeview service as well as Sky would allow two programmes to be recorded while watching a third.
That's assuming there are three programmes worth watching in the near future!

Peddyr · 02-08-2010 1:29pm

reboot wrote: »

Having problems holding on to Welsh channels across the sea to S.Down.
Tried a variety of aerials and amps,is it a waste of time and money expecting signals to remain steady when propagation conditions are so variable?
Doesn't have to be Welsh Freeview,although with an eye to HD,they seem the best bet at the moment,but no mention so far on the guide.
A wide band aerial and amp can bring in over a hundred services,but not for long.

What part of S Down are you in? Port St Mary here in the Isle of Mann might be possible but depends on your location / height etc. PSM is group B, vertical channels 43 & 46. HD due in October ch50 I think. Might be worth a try.

reboot · 03-08-2010 10:09am

Peddyr wrote: »

What part of S Down are you in? Port St Mary here in the Isle of Mann might be possible but depends on your location / height etc. PSM is group B, vertical channels 43 & 46. HD due in October ch50 I think. Might be worth a try.

Thanks for the info.Location high above Annalong,looking straight across the water with a clear view of the sea.
No problem locating Wales and N England channels,but they will drop out,regardless of the technology. Isle of Man would be great,will they all eventually go Freeview HD?
A usefull thread might be a simple guide to Group,re.channels,colour codes,and suggestions for Amps say in the Fringe range widely available.
In other words a plain man's guide to diy DTT.Not trying to upset the trade of course.I know the info is on boards,but can be quite hard to piece together and
can be a little esoteric for the enthusiast,and folk may be put off and give up.
There may be a case for saying why go to all that trouble and expense
when Sky boxes are availabe across the land.

AndyDXTV · 03-08-2010 12:02pm

I have read about reception of winter hill in co. Down. This is at a distance of 157 miles! I belive this is a very localised instant cased by mountain top refraction off the I.O.M. Basicaly one peak surrounded by a flat area, ie the sea! Just look at the map, the coast of Co. Down draw a line to Winter hill transmiter and bang in the middle is the top of the I.O.M.

reboot · 04-08-2010 9:32am

AndyDXTV wrote: »

I have read about reception of winter hill in co. Down. This is at a distance of 157 miles! I belive this is a very localised instant cased by mountain top refraction off the I.O.M. Basicaly one peak surrounded by a flat area, ie the sea! Just look at the map, the coast of Co. Down draw a line to Winter hill transmiter and bang in the middle is the top of the I.O.M.

Good news from S.Down.
Channels 43 and 46 romping in ,I Assume from Isle of Mann.
All thanks to Peddyr and AndyDXTV.
I had seen this signal before but assumed it was from NW England.Particularly when the local opt out at six thirty was Gordan Burns .
I tried the following and it works.

Group B aerial 16 element Vertical pol yellow colour code.(It just happened to be up the pole pointing in the wrong annalogue direction).
A Fringe wideband 1223 mast head amp, and of course power supply.
I used a Maplin freeview monitor which displays signal strength and quality at the same time as a picture.
Note of warning. Came in one day recently to find a small puddle of water behind the new Sony Bravia.No visable sign of water ingress from ceiling or anywhere else.
Power supply to mast head amp full of water and finished.
Have seen this once before when water was found inside a very expensive DVD recorder.
Yes of course you all know why,the water comes down the Inside of the co.ax cable showing no visible signs outside,until its too late.
Back to the IOM freeview,I am sure the combination of the kit is not correct,but it works for now at little expense.May have to start again with channel 50 HD and Mpeg 4 etc.Sorry to say poor results from the same source on Dab,but delighted with TV pictures for now.One site has IOM switching over to Aerial in the C/D range?

12 element · 04-08-2010 6:21pm

Did you forget your self amalgamating tape!

reboot wrote: »

Good news from S.Down.
Channels 43 and 46 romping in ,I Assume from Isle of Mann.
All thanks to Peddyr and AndyDXTV.
I had seen this signal before but assumed it was from NW England.Particularly when the local opt out at six thirty was Gordan Burns .
I tried the following and it works.

Group B aerial 16 element Vertical pol yellow colour code.(It just happened to be up the pole pointing in the wrong annalogue direction).
A Fringe wideband 1223 mast head amp, and of course power supply.
I used a Maplin freeview monitor which displays signal strength and quality at the same time as a picture.
Note of warning. Came in one day recently to find a small puddle of water behind the new Sony Bravia.No visable sign of water ingress from ceiling or anywhere else.
Power supply to mast head amp full of water and finished.
Have seen this once before when water was found inside a very expensive DVD recorder.
Yes of course you all know why,the water comes down the Inside of the co.ax cable showing no visible signs outside,until its too late.
Back to the IOM freeview,I am sure the combination of the kit is not correct,but it works for now at little expense.May have to start again with channel 50 HD and Mpeg 4 etc.Sorry to say poor results from the same source on Dab,but delighted with TV pictures for now.One site has IOM switching over to Aerial in the C/D range?

reboot · 04-08-2010 7:47pm

12 element wrote: »

Did you forget your self amalgamating tape!

Spot on.
Tape came off,amp turned upside down,and as Wallace would say,"Don't relay on your Gromet;

Peddyr · 04-08-2010 9:27pm

reboot wrote: »

Good news from S.Down.
Channels 43 and 46 romping in ,I Assume from Isle of Mann.
All thanks to Peddyr and AndyDXTV.
I had seen this signal before but assumed it was from NW England.Particularly when the local opt out at six thirty was Gordan Burns .
I tried the following and it works.

Group B aerial 16 element Vertical pol yellow colour code.(It just happened to be up the pole pointing in the wrong annalogue direction).
A Fringe wideband 1223 mast head amp, and of course power supply.
I used a Maplin freeview monitor which displays signal strength and quality at the same time as a picture.
Note of warning. Came in one day recently to find a small puddle of water behind the new Sony Bravia.No visable sign of water ingress from ceiling or anywhere else.
Power supply to mast head amp full of water and finished.
Have seen this once before when water was found inside a very expensive DVD recorder.
Yes of course you all know why,the water comes down the Inside of the co.ax cable showing no visible signs outside,until its too late.
Back to the IOM freeview,I am sure the combination of the kit is not correct,but it works for now at little expense.May have to start again with channel 50 HD and Mpeg 4 etc.Sorry to say poor results from the same source on Dab,but delighted with TV pictures for now.One site has IOM switching over to Aerial in the C/D range?

Well done Reboot!

Port St Mary TX is only 47 miles from Annalong and Beary Pairk is 53 miles. Not sure which one you're getting as they both same frequencies (SFN), so if you miss one with your aerial you'll get the other!

Only thing is they're "Freeview Lite" on only 2 muxes. HD in October. IOM changed from Border TV region to Granada at DSO last summer. Interesting as IOM is not part of UK and I have no interesting in what's happening in N West of England when it comes to regional news & waeather. IOM not viable to have our own TV station but UK quick to take license money though!

I'm at a good location for surrounding DTT from Ireland and UK at height of approx 400ft ASL and can get good signals from Divis, Three Rock and Kippure. Clermont Carn good too but only analogue. A UK T2 box will get you both UK and Irish DTT, but a bit pricy yet though.

Hope you get your water ingress problem sorted and happy viewing!

Peddyr · 04-08-2010 9:31pm

reboot wrote: »

Sorry to say poor results from the same source on Dab,but delighted with TV pictures for now.One site has IOM switching over to Aerial in the C/D range?

No DAB from PSM or BP in IOM as yet, only Douglas TX. Can you post a link to the source that states an IOM site switching to group C/D please?

reboot · 05-08-2010 10:24am

Peddyr wrote: »

No DAB from PSM or BP in IOM as yet, only Douglas TX. Can you post a link to the source that states an IOM site switching to group C/D please?

"C/D aerial will provide all digital TV services after switchover"
www.free.tv/shutdowndetail.??
Found very good Satellite double screened co-ax cable,is this 75ohm,or 50?
Douglas Dab Tx 5kw,still trying.
This all started because I was trying to get BBC Radio 4 .RTE sits on top of 104.6 FM,and 96fm too far away.
Tell me about paying for service you can,t get!
In Castlewellan Dab coming from BBC and RTE,with Maplin Dab aerial and mast head amp,no problem.

Peddyr · 06-08-2010 11:06am

reboot wrote: »

"C/D aerial will provide all digital TV services after switchover"
www.free.tv/shutdowndetail.??
Found very good Satellite double screened co-ax cable,is this 75ohm,or 50?
Douglas Dab Tx 5kw,still trying.
This all started because I was trying to get BBC Radio 4 .RTE sits on top of 104.6 FM,and 96fm too far away.
Tell me about paying for service you can,t get!
In Castlewellan Dab coming from BBC and RTE,with Maplin Dab aerial and mast head amp,no problem.

Link doesn't appear to work.

reboot · 06-08-2010 8:18pm

Peddyr wrote: »

Link doesn't appear to work.

Sorry about the link,seems I am as proficient at this computer stuff as I am at receiving Dab from the IOM.
I went to Goggle "Isle of Mann freeview tv".The C/D business may refer to the Tx mentioned as Glenmaye (IOM) .
If a story appears about a man in S ,Down falling off a chimney whilst searching for Dab from IOM.Its not true.
He threw himself off!

Peddyr · 07-08-2010 5:14pm

reboot wrote: »

Sorry about the link,seems I am as proficient at this computer stuff as I am at receiving Dab from the IOM.
I went to Goggle "Isle of Mann freeview tv".The C/D business may refer to the Tx mentioned as Glenmaye (IOM) .
If a story appears about a man in S ,Down falling off a chimney whilst searching for Dab from IOM.Its not true.
He threw himself off!

I hope you don't go up to your chimney just to try and get DAB from IOM or you'll be disappointed! ASAIK only Carnane relay above Douglas transmits DAB and it's only the BBC stations which you can get from Divis presumably with the addition of R Ulster & Foyle plus commercial stations. I doubt you'd pick up Carnane from your location - I can't. My DAB comes from NI & ROI.

reboot · 08-08-2010 3:37pm

Peddyr wrote: »

I hope you don't go up to your chimney just to try and get DAB from IOM or you'll be disappointed! ASAIK only Carnane relay above Douglas transmits DAB and it's only the BBC stations which you can get from Divis presumably with the addition of R Ulster & Foyle plus commercial stations. I doubt you'd pick up Carnane from your location - I can't. My DAB comes from NI & ROI.

Digital radio fab,then its gone,then its back.Signal strength,bar graph 97% fab,then zero.,then 84%then zero .You know it well.
Arthur C Clarke had the answer in 1946.Put a transmitter 22 thousand miles away in space.(Wireless world)
I still have to pay the man who put the transmitter 27 miles away,on the Isle of Mann,even though I can't receive it.
I thought digital was the answer,but it's not even the question.
So all terrestrial wireless stuff coming off the roof ,another feed from the quad LNB,and back to the past.(You were right) Maybe video did kill the radio star.

reboot · 26-09-2010 8:44am

Peddyr wrote: »

Well done Reboot!

Port St Mary TX is only 47 miles from Annalong and Beary Pairk is 53 miles. Not sure which one you're getting as they both same frequencies (SFN), so if you miss one with your aerial you'll get the other!

Only thing is they're "Freeview Lite" on only 2 muxes. HD in October. IOM changed from Border TV region to Granada at DSO last summer. Interesting as IOM is not part of UK and I have no interesting in what's happening in N West of England when it comes to regional news & waeather. IOM not viable to have our own TV station but UK quick to take license money though!

I'm at a good location for surrounding DTT from Ireland and UK at height of approx 400ft ASL and can get good signals from Divis, Three Rock and Kippure. Clermont Carn good too but only analogue. A UK T2 box will get you both UK and Irish DTT, but a bit pricy yet though.

Hope you get your water ingress problem sorted and happy viewing!

Any update on HD from IOM ? Is there a website for info? Thanks,all well on freeview light services.

buggane · 27-09-2010 10:40am

reboot wrote: »

Good news from S.Down.
Channels 43 and 46 romping in ,I Assume from Isle of Mann.
All thanks to Peddyr and AndyDXTV.
I had seen this signal before but assumed it was from NW England.Particularly when the local opt out at six thirty was Gordan Burns .
I tried the following and it works.

Group B aerial 16 element Vertical pol yellow colour code.(It just happened to be up the pole pointing in the wrong annalogue direction).
A Fringe wideband 1223 mast head amp, and of course power supply.
I used a Maplin freeview monitor which displays signal strength and quality at the same time as a picture.
Note of warning. Came in one day recently to find a small puddle of water behind the new Sony Bravia.No visable sign of water ingress from ceiling or anywhere else.
Power supply to mast head amp full of water and finished.
Have seen this once before when water was found inside a very expensive DVD recorder.
Yes of course you all know why,the water comes down the Inside of the co.ax cable showing no visible signs outside,until its too late.
Back to the IOM freeview,I am sure the combination of the kit is not correct,but it works for now at little expense.May have to start again with channel 50 HD and Mpeg 4 etc.Sorry to say poor results from the same source on Dab,but delighted with TV pictures for now.One site has IOM switching over to Aerial in the C/D range?

Channel 50 (Freeview HD) comes on stream on 19th October from Beary and May 2011 from Pt St Mary so you should soon be able to ascertain where your signal is coming from.

reboot · 27-09-2010 6:05pm

buggane wrote: »

Channel 50 (Freeview HD) comes on stream on 19th October from Beary and May 2011 from Pt St Mary so you should soon be able to ascertain where your signal is coming from.

Sorry if this is a daft question.If I don't have the Mpeg 4 how will I know?
Will it be as per RTE sound and no vision and will HD appear on SD epg?
Told you it was daft.Do you think it will stay Freeview light?

watty · 27-09-2010 6:17pm

UK HD needs a DVB-T2 tuner. Only the very newest shinest "Freeview HD" stickered gear does it. MPEG4 isn't enough.

A regular Freeview (even if it has MPEG4) usually won't even list a DVB-T2 channel as even existing!

reboot · 27-09-2010 6:34pm

watty wrote: »

UK HD needs a DVB-T2 tuner. Only the very newest shinest "Freeview HD" stickered gear does it. MPEG4 isn't enough.

A regular Freeview (even if it has MPEG4) usually won't even list a DVB-T2 channel as even existing!

I happened upon a commitee hearing on the future of digital broadcasting ,some five or more years ago. (Parliament Channel) An American gentleman gave evidence to the smart men pleading with them to "Not go down this route"Meaning UK Freeview Mpeg 2 and so on.But to look beyond to HD etc,(Which I recall working on when it was 1250 lines.)
Where did it all go wrong ? or are the wrong people in charge.?
Notice I didn't get to DAB yet!
Obviously the right people are in charge now...

watty · 27-09-2010 8:03pm

HD is 1125 lines for analogue signal to CRT to get 1080 lines. NHK had hybrid satellite system with HD before any DVB.

However you really don't want ATSC. The US basically uses DVB-C on Cable though.

reboot · 28-09-2010 9:49am

watty wrote: »

HD is 1125 lines for analogue signal to CRT to get 1080 lines. NHK had hybrid satellite system with HD before any DVB.

However you really don't want ATSC. The US basically uses DVB-C on Cable though.

Thanks for that,I was of course refering to NHK Tokyo.
At the risk of being rebuked for going off thread, Two not unrelated topics.If the RTE Satellite does transmit on 9 degrees,will a one metre dish pointed at 13 degrees Hotbird ,do the trick,or are we into more boxes re.
Ku/Ka discussions.
If LED televisions are only side and backlights ,apart from better blacks,is the picture any better than LCD?Is the LCD only replacing the flourescent tube?

watty · 28-09-2010 12:49pm

There are *real* LED TVs. Yes, they are just making them thinner with LED instead of CFL tubes. The "white" LEDs at edge are very much poorer, white LED back light middling and R, G & B LED backlights maybe a bit better than CFL.

1m is maybe a bit big for Ka-Sat, unless it's prety much offset LNB and dish pointing at 16E. I will try 95cm with 28, 19, 13 and 9E when the service starts. An 80cm with 28E and 9E should work, and that will get many 13E/19E channels except in far western parts.
The Ka-LNB converts to same band as Ku-LNB. So Diseqc, Multiswitch etc will work.

Peddyr · 28-09-2010 2:00pm

buggane wrote: »

Channel 50 (Freeview HD) comes on stream on 19th October from Beary and May 2011 from Pt St Mary so you should soon be able to ascertain where your signal is coming from.

I was under the impression that all UK Freeview relays on Mann were to have HD on October 19th??

reboot · 29-09-2010 4:12pm

Peddyr wrote: »

Well done Reboot!

Port St Mary TX is only 47 miles from Annalong and Beary Pairk is 53 miles. Not sure which one you're getting as they both same frequencies (SFN), so if you miss one with your aerial you'll get the other!

Only thing is they're "Freeview Lite" on only 2 muxes. HD in October. IOM changed from Border TV region to Granada at DSO last summer. Interesting as IOM is not part of UK and I have no interesting in what's happening in N West of England when it comes to regional news & waeather. IOM not viable to have our own TV station but UK quick to take license money though!

I'm at a good location for surrounding DTT from Ireland and UK at height of approx 400ft ASL and can get good signals from Divis, Three Rock and Kippure. Clermont Carn good too but only analogue. A UK T2 box will get you both UK and Irish DTT, but a bit pricy yet though.

Hope you get your water ingress problem sorted and happy viewing!

Very odd results in Co.Down
Trying to see the IOM DTT Tx from Ballymartin.
Location is almost AT sea level,no signal worth talking about.
Move set up to 160 feet ASL at Annalong,don't even need an amp,same result on the outskirts of Newcastle.Great signal at both locations.
Are the "Wee Men" not getting through the sea water,bouncing off,or being absorbed.Doesn't bode well if we move to Monte Carlo.

watty · 29-09-2010 5:05pm

45 ft / 9m is first important height to get away from ground noise and get ANY radio from more than 25miles/40km away...
After that double the height each time for significant difference.

At VHF in Millisle Co. Down you can do VHF from Snafell. I've used a 1/4 wave whip on a radiator at sealevel on 144MHz. (Bungalow about 100m from beach)
At UHF to Co.Down at sea level it will be erratic depending on height of TX in IOM.

Peddyr, Tax the UK blowins and setup Televis Ellen Mannan. After all you have (or used to) Manx Radio. I used to listen to it via home made 1/4wave in loft in East Antrim. I actually heard the news report on Manx Radio in 1970s of last native Manx speaker's death.

Peddyr · 29-09-2010 6:50pm

watty wrote: »

At VHF in Millisle Co. Down you can do VHF from Snafell. I've used a 1/4 wave whip on a radiator at sealevel on 144MHz. (Bungalow about 100m from beach)
At UHF to Co.Down at sea level it will be erratic depending on height of TX in IOM.

Would that be Manx Radio on 89.0?

watty wrote: »

Peddyr, Tax the UK blowins and setup Televis Ellen Mannan. After all you have (or used to) Manx Radio. I used to listen to it via home made 1/4wave in loft in East Antrim. I actually heard the news report on Manx Radio in 1970s of last native Manx speaker's death.

I'm all for that Watty! "Çhellveeish Ellan Vannin" (Telefis Oileán Mhanann) has a certain ring to it but content would probably leave a lot to be desired if it's based on 'Manx' Radio as a role model. It'd be top heavy with UK blow-ins (referred to as "come-overs" here in Mann) and 'suvern' English accents lol!

Am still in favour of greater taxes on them to be used for TV station and / or a proper Manx radio station!

Ned Maddrell was the last 'native' speaker to die in '74 according to academics but they were wrong as they were others and Manx Gaelic still lives today and we also have 're-native' speakers for over 20 years with children being brought up with Gaelic as the first tongue - Gaelg aboo! (Gaeilge Mhannan abú!)

watty · 29-09-2010 10:06pm

Peddyr wrote: »

Would that be Manx Radio on 89.0?

No it was the 145.xxMHz two way radio. Amateur Licence. I was using 10W. That was about 5 years ago.

I listened to Manx Radio with the home made aerial in attic as school kid in 1970s in East Antrim. Not Co. Down.

Peddyr · 04-10-2010 10:05pm

Peddyr wrote: »

What part of S Down are you in? Port St Mary here in the Isle of Mann might be possible but depends on your location / height etc. PSM is group B, vertical channels 43 & 46. HD due in October ch50 I think. Might be worth a try.

HD confirmed as October 19 from IOM txs if you have a T2 stb. It should be found on Ch50.

reboot · 06-10-2010 3:53pm

Peddyr wrote: »

HD confirmed as October 19 from IOM txs if you have a T2 stb. It should be found on Ch50.

Thank you for that,if a man wanted to buy a" basic " frewview HD Set top box,where would he look and what would he buy.?

Help with Freeview across the sea to Co.Down?

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