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Sinn Fein

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    #32
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    xxVickyxx wrote: »
    In Dundalk, Arthur Morgan campaigns tirelessly for the hospital to stay open. And I know of a few organisations, not strictly Sinn Fein but closely tied, that are doing good things for the society.


    Secondly, from what I can gather Sinn Fein seem to represent for the under classes, and dont have much time for wealthy.. Whereas other parties would be the other way around.

    Anyway I really hope this doesnt turn sour. Im honestly at a loss as to why they are so unpopular. They seem like a decent party and I just dont get why they are so unpopular.

    I've the same experience with the local sinn fein people here aswell ,they are always on the ground helping people out. They seem to have a far more social approach to politics.

    But ,they also have some pretty lousy ties to the yobs you see at protests. This is the downside to their social approach ,the wrong type of people get involved.
    I don't think that will ever change.


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    #33
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    its this sort of parish politics and thinking that got the country into such a mess

    Do explain - how is the recession to be blamed on 'parish politics'.


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    #34
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    While not dismissing any atrocities committed by either side, out of respect for the dead, comparing something 30 years ago to something that happened last year is not valid.

    Up until 2 days ago, Britain disputed that Irish civilians were innocent on Bloody Sunday. So what exactly is it you are referring to?

    You sure are selective with your timeline. Just admit it, and be over with it.

    In 50 years from now, you'll still be harping on about the same old tripe. Sinn Féin have progressed on, and are one of the cornerstones of the peace process.


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    #35
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Oh yeah, no guerilla warfare or civilian casulties with the old IRA at all.

    Do you actually know what the term in bold means? You seem to have equated it with terrorism.

    Regarding voting for Sinn Fein, hell would freeze over before I would vote for mass murderers like Adams and McGuinness.


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    #36
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Orizio wrote: »
    Regarding voting for Sinn Fein, hell would freeze over before I would vote for mass murderers like Adams and McGuinness.

    I suppose you have evidence to support these claims? It's this sort of hyperbole that reduces any chance of a reasonable discussion ever taking place in a Sinn Féin related thread.


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    #37
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    I think you're wrong Tony, that article is from 2008. I believe SF's current corporation tax policy is to harmonise the rate North and South.

    Sorry my search results dated that 12/06/10, I neglected to check the date on the article :( Anyone know why Google would date this as 12/06/10 in the search results when you click the link it brings you to the article which is 2008? Will have to pay more attention to my search results in future.
    Even though have been searching to find their current policy and there doesn't seem to be one on the Sinn Fein website? Maybe I just can't find it but even general google searches doesn't really bring back anything concrete


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    #38
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Even though have been searching to find their current policy and there doesn't seem to be one on the Sinn Fein website?

    It is, I linked you to it.

    Care you apologise Tony?


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    #39
    Orizio
    Registered Users Posts: 9,460 ✭✭✭Orizio


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I suppose you have evidence to support these claims? It's this sort of hyperbole that reduces any chance of a reasonable discussion ever taking place in a Sinn Féin related thread.

    McGuinness and Adams were leaders of the PIRA, and presided over their terrorist tactics of mass murder for political means for 2-3 decades. Seems straightforward.


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    #40
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Undoubtedly Sinn Fein’s historical links with PIRA are hurting them and I think this is compounded by their retention of the ancient guard of Adams / McGuinness etc. at the helm. But I would suggest the biggest impediment is that Ireland doesn’t do socialism. We opt for centralist or centre right politics. There is a plethora of left wing parties but there is no broad support for them. No doubt such parties may get a bit of a bounce at the next GE given the times we are in, but they won’t sustain it.


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    #41
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Orizio wrote: »
    McGuinness and Adams were leaders of the PIRA, and presided over their terrorist tactics of mass murder for political means for 2-3 decades. Seems straightforward.

    So no, you have no evidence to support your claims.


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    #42
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    so where did fianna fail fine gael come from ?, nothing wrong with a party with strong patriotic core governing the country , it would make a welcome change . its the ultra socialist thing that puts most people off , previously sinn fein support was rural /small farmer based their is very little of that their now, why do people in rep of ireland have this hypocritical attitude to terrorism links and government yet expect power sharing in northern Ireland .if it was not for sinn feins belief that what i earned built up for myself should be shared with the poor unfortunate idle i might be tempted to vote for them.


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    #43
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Deflect, dodge and deny. ;)

    It's almost comical how these things go around.


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    #44
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Ladies and gentlemen. This is why you should research prior to posting a 2 year old article on boards.ie.

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/18505



    Myth dispelled.

    That's their English manifesto prior to Westminister elections? Do they not have an economic policy document for the south?


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    #45
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    That's their English manifesto prior to Westminister elections? Do they not have an economic policy document for the south?

    Do you understand what "the harmonization of corporation tax at 12.5% across the island" means?

    You stated
    Afraid you are wrong there, they currently have no policy on corporation tax

    You were wrong.


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    #46
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Do you understand what "the harmonization of corporation tax at 12.5% across the island" means?

    You stated



    You were wrong.

    What I do understand is that document is a manifesto for elections in a different country, not for the Republic of Ireland where I live. Can you please give me a link their economic policy document for the Republic if they have one, and if they don't have one, then I think that speaks volumes as to why people do not vote for them here.
    So do Sinn Fein have a complete economic policy document for the Republic of Ireland Yes or No?


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    #47
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So no, you have no evidence to support your claims.

    Seems straightforward enough for me:confused:


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    #48
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Seems straightforward enough for me:confused:
    Show me proof that Adams was a leader of the PIRA.


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    #49
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    What I do understand is that document is a manifesto for elections in a different country, not for the Republic of Ireland where I live. Can you please give me a link their economic policy document for the Republic if they have one, and if they don't have one, then I think that speaks volumes as to why people do not vote for them here.
    So do Sinn Fein have a complete economic policy document for the Republic of Ireland Yes or No?

    Firstly, let's be very clear. We were not initially discussing Sinn Féin's entire economic policy for the south. I stated that Sinn Féin's current corporate tax policy was to retain the status quo of 12.5%

    You responded stating that I was wrong, citing a 2 year old article from the Independant. I corrected you by showing you that they do indeed have a corp tax, and cited their website which listed a all-island policy for corp tax harmonisation.

    Now, firstly - I would appreciate it if you manned up and accepted that you were wrong.

    Onward.

    Sinn Féin's economic policies, and budget submissions are available here: http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy


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    #50
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    Seems straightforward enough for me:confused:

    So did the Widgery report. What's your point?


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    #51
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    I never mentioned the Widgery Report.:confused:


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    #52
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    I never mentioned the Widgery Report.:confused:

    No, you mentioned "seems straight forward to me" in regards to Gerry Adams being a mass murderer, where I requested evidence for such a statement.


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    #53
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Sorry my search results dated that 12/06/10, I neglected to check the date on the article :( Anyone know why Google would date this as 12/06/10 in the search results when you click the link it brings you to the article which is 2008? Will have to pay more attention to my search results in future.
    Even though have been searching to find their current policy and there doesn't seem to be one on the Sinn Fein website? Maybe I just can't find it but even general google searches doesn't really bring back anything concrete
    dlofnep wrote: »
    Firstly, let's be very clear. We were not initially discussing Sinn Féin's entire economic policy for the south. I stated that Sinn Féin's current corporate tax policy was to retain the status quo of 12.5%

    You responded stating that I was wrong, citing a 2 year old article from the Independant. I corrected you by showing you that they do indeed have a corp tax, and cited their website which listed a all-island policy for corp tax harmonisation.

    Now, firstly - I would appreciate it if you manned up and accepted that you were wrong.

    Onward.

    Sinn Féin's economic policies, and budget submissions are available here: http://www.sinnfein.ie/economy

    Since you obviously do not read all the posts I have quoted a previous post of mine where I apologised for this as soon as it was pointed out to me, not by yourself but by guinnessdrinker.

    But I will now state the reason I do not vote for Sinn Fein and it has a lot to do with attitudes of Sinn fein members and supporters, who consistently take an aggressive stance against anyone who does not agree with them. Also from my personal experience Sinn Fein does not represent me. And the majority of it's members and supporters that I have come across are the type of people I would cross the street to avoid.


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    #54
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    But I will now state the reason I do not vote for Sinn Fein and it has a lot to do with attitudes of Sinn fein members and supporters, who consistently take an aggressive stance against anyone who does not agree with them.

    Oh, people in Sinn Féin are more than tolerant of people with differing opinions, as evident by a member of the Orange Order speaking at their Ard Fheis 2 or 3 years ago.

    What people do not appreciate however, is unfounded accusations, or blatant lies and smears - and then when they are given evidence to suggest otherwise, they brush it off as if it's ok to spread such lies or smears.


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    #55
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I don't see why people are so obsessive about Gerry Adams being the IRA leader.

    He's been the leader of Sinn Fein since 1983. Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA. So basically the same organisation. He carried coffins for fallen IRA men, why would it actually be any different if he was in an active service unit?


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    #56
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    I don't see why people are so obsessive about Gerry Adams being the IRA leader.

    He's been the leader of Sinn Fein since 1983. Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA. So basically the same organisation. He carried coffins for fallen IRA men, why would it actually be any different if he was in an active service unit?

    It wouldn't. Which is why he had no reason to dispute being in the IRA. It also doesn't prove that he was a mass murderer, as previously described.


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    #57
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Oh, people in Sinn Féin are more than tolerant of people with differing opinions, as evident by a member of the Orange Order speaking at their Ard Fheis 2 or 3 years ago.

    What people do not appreciate however, is unfounded accusations, or blatant lies and smears - and then when they are given evidence to suggest otherwise, they brush it off as if it's ok to spread such lies or smears.

    Clear evidence? A manifesto for a foreign country isn't the evidence I would be looking for. So I will ask you again do Sinn Fein have an economic policy document for the Republic of Ireland? YES or NO. If so please share a link so I may read it


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    #58
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    Clear evidence?

    Yes, clear evidence.

    What part of "all-island" harmonised tax rate of 12.5% do you not understand? It is an "all-Ireland" policy. You seem to have severe problems in understanding that Sinn Féin operates on a 32 county basis.
    IrishTonyO wrote: »
    A manifesto for a foreign country isn't the evidence I would be looking for. So I will ask you again do Sinn Fein have an economic policy document for the Republic of Ireland? YES or NO. If so please share a link so I may read it

    I've already provided you with a link to their economic policies. Their budget submission, amongst other documents are available. I'm going to place you on ignore you continue to be purposefully ignorant.

    In summary, just so I don't have to repeat myself.
    • They do have a corp tax policy. It is 12.5% island-wide. (This means, across the entire Island.)
    • Their economic policies are available on their website, which I have previously linked.

    If I am forced to repeat myself again, you will be placed on ignore.


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    #59
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    I don't see why people are so obsessive about Gerry Adams being the IRA leader.

    He's been the leader of Sinn Fein since 1983. Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA. So basically the same organisation. He carried coffins for fallen IRA men, why would it actually be any different if he was in an active service unit?

    To be honest, if that piece of muck stuck, or was removed from the throwing area entirely, another would be used instead. Personally, I don't know if Gerry Adams was the "leader" of the IRA, though I presume that at some stage in his life he was involved in that organisation at a high level.


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    #60
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    dlofnep, do you not think it is strange that on the web page you linked they say harmonization of corporation tax, however when you open their manifesto (link on that page) there is no mention of it all in the manifesto?


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    #61
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    dlofnep wrote: »
    What part of "all-island" harmonised tax rate of 12.5% do you not understand? It is an "all-Ireland" policy. You seem to have severe problems in understanding that Sinn Féin operates on a 32 county basis.

    They are running for election and looking for votes in this country, though.

    If they don't recognise that, then why should we recognise them ?

    Does their manifesto for people in the North state that if elected that their taxes will unfortunately have to continue to bail out Anglo Irish Bank, even if they get into government ?

    If not, then they are being facetious.

    "Operating" in two juristictions is one thing; formulating "one-size-fits-all" policies is completely different.


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