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Cowen - Brazen, stupid or both?

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  • 10-06-2010 10:26pm
    #1
    Sizzler
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭


    Cowen's performance on Prime Time tonight coupled with his hourly soundbytes since the banking report was leaked by The Indo on Tuesday, seriously is he really so stupid that he thinks he did a good job and its OK now to look forward and accept zero responsibilty for napping on the job?

    As the saying goes "neck like a jockeys bollix" - never seen a saying so suitably apt for someone, all the more gauling that he is the bloody taoiseach! The clown sat on prime time tonight and STILL claimed Lehman bros was the trigger to Ireland's woes...FFS! Spare me !

    Absolutely ZERO accountability, in what other career could you make a dogs dinner of your area of responsibility and then claim you actually did a grand job and effectively walk away with no reprucussions or worse still stay in it?:eek:

    He said tonight nobody could have forseen X,Y & Z, perhaps to this extent Brian but the fact is you are clueless, out of your depth, were happy to ride the gravy train and really had no idea or did not care what was actually going on your watch.

    I'm sick of him and his sneery attitude, "I wont walk away, I'm here for the full term". Sorry Brian but I for one have had enough, I didn't ****ing vote for you, nobody did so give it a rest and get out.


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    #2
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    Or alot of stupid people will vote FF no matter what.


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    #3
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    I'm by no means going to defend Cowen, because his delusion and selectivity (only referencing about 1% of the reports since) is beyond comprehension.

    He was, after all, Minister for Finance for a lot of this, having taken over from McCreevy.

    I will, however, remind people that we were a long way up ****'s creek when Cowen was handed a certain position by his former boss...."the most cunning and devious of them all", who has since swanned off laughing his hole off while he gets chauferred around at our expense while he's meant to be at work.

    And the question remains whether Cowen was just following his boss' orders (in the same way that - apparently - Ahern had signed blank cheques for Haughey).

    Not questioning your boss and doing something regardless of how wrong it is ?

    History repeats itself, maybe ?


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    #4
    BehindTheScenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭BehindTheScenes


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Or alot of stupid people will vote FF no matter what.

    Yep

    I'm going with brazen and stupid. Now in what proportion I'm not to sure.


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    #5
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    The man accepts responsibility for his mistakes! He explained time and again how he made the decisions he made, different agencies consulted etc, apologised that they were wrong decisions and now wants to move on and fix things. Fianna Fail and him have a mandate from the people and if they continue on the path we are currently on things will turn around. Growth is slowly coming back.

    Let the man do his job how often does he have to apologise? The opposition is on record as saying they would have done alot more in terms of money spent duringthe good times and tax incentives. I for one applaud Mr Cowen and encourage him and Mr Lenihan to continue the work they have started doing. We can judge them on their successes and failings come election time but at the present time let them do the job they are doing.


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    #6
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I missed it. Will give it a watch later on RTE player.


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    #7
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    how often does he have to apologise?

    Once might do, if he bothered to. :rolleyes:


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    #8
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    If anything he has got big balls.


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    #9
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    The man accepts responsibility for his mistakes! He explained time and again how he made the decisions he made, different agencies consulted etc, apologised that they were wrong decisions and now wants to move on and fix things. Fianna Fail and him have a mandate from the people and if they continue on the path we are currently on things will turn around. Growth is slowly coming back.

    Let the man do his job how often does he have to apologise? The opposition is on record as saying they would have done alot more in terms of money spent duringthe good times and tax incentives. I for one applaud Mr Cowen and encourage him and Mr Lenihan to continue the work they have started doing. We can judge them on their successes and failings come election time but at the present time let them do the job they are doing.

    How on earth can you say he has a mandate from the people?? From who, apart from the voters of Offaly?


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    #10
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    The man accepts responsibility for his mistakes! He explained time and again how he made the decisions he made, different agencies consulted etc, apologised that they were wrong decisions and now wants to move on and fix things. Fianna Fail and him have a mandate from the people and if they continue on the path we are currently on things will turn around. Growth is slowly coming back.

    Let the man do his job how often does he have to apologise? The opposition is on record as saying they would have done alot more in terms of money spent duringthe good times and tax incentives. I for one applaud Mr Cowen and encourage him and Mr Lenihan to continue the work they have started doing. We can judge them on their successes and failings come election time but at the present time let them do the job they are doing.

    When did he say "I apologise for the mess I have got this country in ?"


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    #11
    Barname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Barname


    rovert wrote: »
    If anything he has got big balls.

    great, that will take care of his €100 Billion mistake


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    #12
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    How on earth can you say he has a mandate from the people?? From who, apart from the voters of Offaly?

    Fianna Fail got a mandate from the people at last election and every dog in the street know Bertie Ahern would not be leader of the party for the full term. Fair enough most expected him to stay until after the local elections but still the voters knew Cowen would be leader once Bertie Ahern stepped aside. Thus a mandate.....
    Kristopherus wrote: »
    When did he say "I apologise for the mess I have got this country in ?"

    He admitted he made mistakes, said sorry and know wants to fix him. Again not all the mistakes were in his making and did get go some way to try fix them up evidently not fast enough!


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    #13
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    rovert wrote: »
    If anything he has got big balls.

    "all the better to ride you with, my dear" (with apologies to the Brothers Grimm)


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    #14
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Fianna Fail got a mandate from the people at last election and every dog in the street know Bertie Ahern would not be leader of the party for the full term. Fair enough most expected him to stay until after the local elections but still the voters knew Cowen would be leader once Bertie Ahern stepped aside. Thus a mandate.....



    He admitted he made mistakes, said sorry and know wants to fix him. Again not all the mistakes were in his making and did get go some way to try fix them up evidently not fast enough!

    He has NEVER said "Sorry"


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    #15
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Cowen is just the Gordon Brown of Irish Politics... an unelected Prime Minister and Brown thought he would ride his luck as well and only called an election when he absolutely had to, and his party was punished.


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    #16
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Kristopherus wrote: »
    He has NEVER said "Sorry"

    Cowen admitted the mistakes and Lenihen apologised for the role Fianna Fail played in the banking crisis on the 15th of April this year I think. All in all an apology from Fianna Fail.


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    #17
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    The man accepts responsibility for his mistakes!

    What does 'accepting' responsibility mean?

    Pronunciation: \ri-ˈspän(t)-sə-bəl\
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Anglo-French responsable, from respuns
    Date: 1643
    1 a : liable to be called on to answer b (1) : liable to be called to account as the primary cause, motive, or agent <a committee responsible for the job> (2) : being the cause or explanation <mechanical defects were responsible for the accident> c : liable to legal review or in case of fault to penalties
    2 a : able to answer for one's conduct and obligations : trustworthy b : able to choose for oneself between right and wrong
    3 : marked by or involving responsibility or accountability <responsible financial policies> <a responsible job>
    4 : politically answerable; especially : required to submit to the electorate if defeated by the legislature —used especially of the British cabinet

    Take your pick from them, he hasn't accepted responsibility in any meaningful way, they are just words he pushes past his lips


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    #18
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Cowen is just the Gordon Brown of Irish Politics... an unelected Prime Minister and Brown thought he would ride his luck as well and only called an election when he absolutely had to, and his party was punished.
    Laminations wrote: »
    What does 'accepting' responsibility mean?

    Pronunciation: \ri-ˈspän(t)-sə-bəl\
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Anglo-French responsable, from respuns
    Date: 1643
    1 a : liable to be called on to answer b (1) : liable to be called to account as the primary cause, motive, or agent <a committee responsible for the job> (2) : being the cause or explanation <mechanical defects were responsible for the accident> c : liable to legal review or in case of fault to penalties
    2 a : able to answer for one's conduct and obligations : trustworthy b : able to choose for oneself between right and wrong
    3 : marked by or involving responsibility or accountability <responsible financial policies> <a responsible job>
    4 : politically answerable; especially : required to submit to the electorate if defeated by the legislature —used especially of the British cabinet

    Take your pick from them, he hasn't accepted responsibility in any meaningful way, they are just words he pushes past his lips

    As I said in my first post on this thread judge him at election if you are not happy.


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    #19
    gleep
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭gleep


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    The man accepts responsibility for his mistakes! He explained time and again how he made the decisions he made, different agencies consulted etc, apologised that they were wrong decisions and now wants to move on and fix things. Fianna Fail and him have a mandate from the people and if they continue on the path we are currently on things will turn around. Growth is slowly coming back.

    Let the man do his job how often does he have to apologise? The opposition is on record as saying they would have done alot more in terms of money spent duringthe good times and tax incentives. I for one applaud Mr Cowen and encourage him and Mr Lenihan to continue the work they have started doing. We can judge them on their successes and failings come election time but at the present time let them do the job they are doing.

    Mandate my arse!


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    #20
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    As I said in my first post on this thread judge him at election if you are not happy.

    I will, will you?


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    #21
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Cowen admitted the mistakes and Lenihen apologised for the role Fianna Fail played in the banking crisis on the 15th of April this year I think. All in all an apology from Fianna Fail.

    That's not what you claimed earlier.

    You claimed that Cowen had apologised. For his actions.
    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    He admitted he made mistakes, said sorry

    Are you retracting that ?


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    #22
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    As I said in my first post on this thread judge him at election if you are not happy.

    Its a pity, no a disgrace that the voters in the 3 outstanding by-elections cannot vote at the minute to judge Cowen.


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    #23
    gleep
    Registered Users Posts: 692 ✭✭✭gleep


    [QUOTE=
    Take your pick from them, he hasn't accepted responsibility in any meaningful way, they are just words/lies he pushes past his lips[/QUOTE]

    Fixed that for you


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    #24
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Laminations wrote: »
    I will, will you?

    I will judge the government at the next general election on how well they have performed through out their whole term. And I will only judge at the end of the term.
    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That's not what you claimed earlier.

    You claimed that Cowen had apologised.

    Are you retracting that ?

    No I am not retracting anything I have said, what I consider an apology and others do obviously is different so I found you an example of someone in power uttering the word "sorry"...

    As I said he is leading his government at the minute and they are taking the right steps the country is turning a corner growth is slowly returning and let them continue and let us punters judge them at election time.


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    #25
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    Cowen admitted the mistakes and Lenihen apologised for the role Fianna Fail played in the banking crisis on the 15th of April this year I think. All in all an apology from Fianna Fail.

    I dont know what fabulous fantasy land you live in if you think FF will ever apologize for anything. The sun will rise in the West first.


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    #26
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    No I am not retracting anything I have said, what I consider an apology and others do obviously is different so I found you an example of someone in power uttering the word "sorry"...

    You said - and I quote - that "he said sorry". You used the word yourself.

    Now you're "finding of an example of someone [ else entirely ] in power uttering the word 'sorry'"

    Ridiculous back-pedalling, but in keeping with the topic.
    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    let us punters judge them at election time.

    Firstly, if he wasn't subverting democracy, that election time would be now.

    Secondly, will your kind self allow us to judge him based on his entire track record, or will we only be allowed to judge from now onwards ?


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    #27
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Firstly, if he wasn't subverting democracy, that election time would be now.

    Secondly, will your kind self allow us to judge him based on his entire track record, or will we only be allowed to judge from now onwards ?


    How is he subverting democracy? Once he has a majority in the Dail he is entitled to be in power for five years, so he has two years to run before our democratic constitution insists he calls an election. Even if he lost the two by-elections he would still have a majority in the Dail so no subverting justice my good friend...

    Yes judge the government on the performance for its full length in power I would expect nothing less from the educated man i assume you are?


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    #28
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    How is he subverting democracy? Once he has a majority in the Dail he is entitled to be in power for five years, so he has two years to run before our democratic constitution insists he calls an election. Even if he lost the two by-elections he would still have a majority in the Dail so no subverting justice my good friend...

    In addition to the two by-elections, he refused to hold the vote of confidence today.

    As for judging on full performance, well since you completely avoided replying to the fact that he didn't say sorry, I have doubts about whether you'll be judging him on what he said and did versus what you want to pretend that he said or did.


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    #29
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    wicklowwonder wrote: »
    How is he subverting democracy? Once he has a majority in the Dail he is entitled to be in power for five years, so he has two years to run before our democratic constitution insists he calls an election. Even if he lost the two by-elections he would still have a majority in the Dail so no subverting justice my good friend...

    Yes judge the government on the performance for its full length in power I would expect nothing less from the educated man i assume you are?

    Why is Cowen then scared to let the by-elections take place? These constituencies have a right to be represented in a democracy. Cowen et al are denying them this right for the sake of keeping him in power.


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    #30
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    In addition to the two by-elections, he refused to hold the vote of confidence today.

    As for judging on full performance, well since you completely avoided replying to the fact that he didn't say sorry, I have doubts about whether you'll be judging him on what he said and did versus what you want to pretend that he said or did.

    It was agreed last week no major votes or Leaders questions would take place this week. Thus delaying it till Tuesday, if anything this is an advantage to Fine Gael who can try muster some support amound FF backbenchers or Greens to support the motion.

    This whole obsession with the word "sorry", the man admitted he made mistakes, he admitted the advice he got was wrong. I will judge Fianna Fail on the their performance like I am sure you will. I will also judge them on the fact the whole world is in recession and how well we recover, if we do before the next general election.


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    #31
    wicklowwonder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭wicklowwonder


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Why is Cowen then scared to let the by-elections take place? These constituencies have a right to be represented in a democracy. Cowen et al are denying them this right for the sake of keeping him in power.

    The by-elections will take place in time, at the minute FF are trying to guide us out of recession and all time and money is going into that. Scared?? Thats a FG slur, give FG two extra votes and they still haven't overturned the government....


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