Govt 'knew of deposit falsely propping up Anglo'

Shea O'Meara · 08-06-2010 9:18am #1

"In a sworn affadavit, former Chief Executive of Irish Life and Permanent, Denis Casey now claims the Department of Finance, the Financial Regulator and the Central Bank were aware of the transactions before Anglo published their financial results in December 2008."

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/18023047/?view=Standard

If proven true can I expect jail time for those involved? Some kind of treason debacle?

To jump ahead, one party affiliation or other to be a fair person wanting the best for Ireland; can this be justified by, 'that was then this is now'? To quote Bono, 'How long can we sing this song?'

ei.sdraob · 08-06-2010 9:21am

At this stage it wouldn't be surprised to hear that the govt ate babies for breakfast

gandalf · 08-06-2010 9:26am

That is a very serious allegation and if it stands up then some very serious questions need to be asked to the people who are supposed to be getting us out of the financial quagmire we find ourselves in.

Nijmegen · 08-06-2010 9:26am

Jail time for those involved? Are you crazy? This is Soggy Banana Republic you're living in, for Pete's sake!

We'll have a tribunal that'll cost half the price of the bailouts, last about as long as it's going to take for us to repay the debt, and everyone involved will walk away, run away or be dead by the time anything comes of it.

Banned Account · 08-06-2010 10:23am

There is a lot more to come out of the closet over the coming months and years. When you think about it, Neary was paid handsomely to slink into the sunset thus avoiding the obligation to appear in front of any committees.

At the same time Anglo was nationalised, there was a gagging order put in place to protect certain information from FOI requests - this was done to "protect the customers"

There's a big smelly rat knocking around somewhere.

Laminations · 08-06-2010 11:19am

This allegation has to bring about the collapse of this wretched government. The papers (as well as the lacklustre opposition) need to crucify them on this. Liars and thieves

Sulmac · 08-06-2010 11:35am

Laminations wrote: »

This allegation has to bring about the collapse of this wretched government.

Wait and see, FF will probably be up in the next poll.

wes · 08-06-2010 11:44am

I think nothing will come of this, even if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Nodin · 08-06-2010 11:50am

wes wrote: »

I think nothing will come of this, even if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Indeed. People presume that because something appears "wrong" theres a law against it, which is not nessecarily the case.

This idea that the department knew more than it was letting on has sneaked out before IMO. Apparently Fitzpatrick kept tape recordings of his phonecalls (not an unusual practice) and it was hinted that these may be used at a future date.

Liam Byrne · 08-06-2010 11:57am

Nodin wrote: »

Indeed. People presume that because something appears "wrong" theres a law against it, which is not nessecarily the case.

And that is the sickening escape route that has FF excusing all sorts of corruption.....and I'm not suggesting that it's your mindset, btw.

I mean, is it illegal for someone to spend money on drink while their child goes hungry ?

Not specifically*. But it's definitely wrong, and you wouldn't choose that person as their guardian/babysitter, because they've shown themselves not to be fit.....without doing anything specifically illegal.

* Acknowledgement : my specific analogy might have a small hole under some threshold of an overall "child abuse" law, but I can't currently think of a better example, so hopefully that won't dilute the point too much

Nodin · 08-06-2010 12:08pm

O tis true. If theres no rule saying 'members must not have a conflict of interest' then they can't be done for having such.

Seeing as the Germans apparently referred to here as the 'Wild West' in terms of regulation, I think theres far less chance of charges and conviction than many seem to think.

PeterIanStaker · 08-06-2010 12:11pm

Course they knew. They were hoping that nothing like the collapse of the American banks would happen and reveal that the entire thing was built on foundations of sand.

thebman · 08-06-2010 12:27pm

I don't really care if they go to jail or not.

They can't get us out of a mess they knowingly put us into. If they knew the bank was rigging its books and were okay with it how can we trust them to reform regulation so it doesn't happen again?

It can't be done, the government must go now TBH. They are holding on to power by not holding byelections and now this.

Surely this is the breaking point for the Irish electorate?

Liam Byrne · 08-06-2010 12:30pm

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu277/nathguy/lgmp0296i-didnt-do-it-bart-simpson-.jpg

I just wish I was more shocked and surprised than I am.....

skelliser · 08-06-2010 12:34pm

Hang on now! What was the point of the banking inquiry and the 17 month Garda investigation into anglo if the CEO of ILAP was never questioned at all!!!

I see Pravda/rte are towing the line by having nothing about this on there site!

Whitewash and cover up.

thebaldsoprano · 08-06-2010 12:47pm

Very odd that Casey wasn't contacted, from this IT article:

Mr Casey said he was providing the statement as investigators have yet to contact him about the matter, despite the deposits being under investigation for 17 months.

skelliser · 08-06-2010 12:52pm

Its not odd at all! Its exactly what they wanted all along! Bertie and Cowen will get a slap on the wrists from the "reports"and FF will ride out the storm until the summer recess when this will all go away.
FF will then survive their term til 2012.

This latest revelation may scupper that plan. Its up to Fine Gael and Labour now.

Sulmac · 08-06-2010 1:25pm

skelliser wrote: »

I see Pravda/rte are towing the line by having nothing about this on there site!

Just emailed their news desk with links to the BreakingNews.ie and IrishTimes.com stories.

Let's see how they reply.

Banned Account · 08-06-2010 2:08pm

There is a law against it in my own opinion anyway. I don't see any reason why those involved could not be prosecuted for breaching their fiduciary duty to shareholders.

I think it's laughable that no-one is investigating the issue properly.

hinault · 08-06-2010 3:11pm

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/18023047/?view=Standard

Neary recently claimed that he knew all about these loans too.

So if the Dept of Finance knew at the time and the Regulator knew at the time - why did they stay stum about these "loans"? (or is that a stupid question?).

The investors in IL&P and Anglo weren't aware of these loans - otherwise they would have cashed in their chips.

Talk about banana republic.

We're being seriously ****ed over folks.
Talk about putting the saddle on.

thebman · 08-06-2010 4:17pm

Given RTE have not reported on this yet, it is pretty damning of their so call independance when they have published yet another article today saying the economy is recovering.

Jaysoose · 08-06-2010 4:26pm

Lads we are screwed, there is no two ways about it...gets more ridiculous every day that passes and yet nothing is done and nobody is held accountable.

Jesus christ apparently fiddling the expenses is a bigger crime than selling the whole country down the river to nama...

somebody turn the lights off.

T runner · 08-06-2010 5:38pm

What would have occurred had the government exposed these transactions at the time?

If I remember correctly everyone was extremely worried about the whole financial system collapsing at that point. What would you have done differently?

T runner · 08-06-2010 5:39pm

thebman wrote: »

Given RTE have not reported on this yet, it is pretty damning of their so call independance when they have published yet another article today saying the economy is recovering.

If the economy is recovering then why not?

thebman · 08-06-2010 5:58pm

T runner wrote: »

If the economy is recovering then why not?

The economy recovering is open to interpretation depending on what figures you want to use. Those are pointless articles much like statements like we have rounded a corner. Either we have or we haven't, if we have why do we keep needing to say it every other day again? Surely one is sufficient until the next statistics on the state of our economy are available.

They are posting articles like that on the economy daily yet some actually new news they can't report on which is conveniently negative toward the government. Seems suspicious given even Eircom can manage to get an article on their website about it in less time and news on their website is offered as an extra feature to their ISP service.

RTE are the national broadcaster and this news is massively damaging to our government yet they aren't reporting on it at all not even to say this person said it yet it remains to be proven? They are supposed to be unbiased, when events unfold like today and other media outlets are reporting it and they have not at all, it makes it look they are biased toward the government who provide their funding by setting the tv license fee.

Liam Byrne · 08-06-2010 6:31pm

T runner wrote: »

What would have occurred had the government exposed these transactions at the time?

If I remember correctly everyone was extremely worried about the whole financial system collapsing at that point. What would you have done differently?

I'd have exposed those transactions and thereby laid down a marker to Ireland and Europe that corruption was not tolerated, thereby restoring faith and confidence in the banking system.

T runner · 08-06-2010 6:47pm

thebman wrote: »

The economy recovering is open to interpretation depending on what figures you want to use. Those are pointless articles much like statements like we have rounded a corner. Either we have or we haven't, if we have why do we keep needing to say it every other day again? Surely one is sufficient until the next statistics on the state of our economy are available.

Can you substantiate your claim that RTE reports that the economy is rounding a corner every second day?

Perhaps you rae exaggerating?

They are posting articles like that on the economy daily yet some actually new news they can't report on which is conveniently negative toward the government.

Again exaggeration and speculation on your part.

RTE are the national broadcaster and this news is massively damaging to our government yet they aren't reporting on it at all not even to say this person said it yet it remains to be proven?

Who maintains it is massively damaging to the government?

They are supposed to be unbiased, when events unfold like today and other media outlets are reporting it and they have not at all, it makes it look they are biased toward the government who provide their funding by setting the tv license fee.

you dont have any substantiation for your claims of bias whatsoever.

T runner · 08-06-2010 6:52pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'd have exposed those transactions and thereby laid down a marker to Ireland and Europe that corruption was not tolerated, thereby restoring faith and confidence in the banking system.

Or perhaps the resultant collapse of Anglo for an unprepared government/banking system would have dominoed into BOI and AIB causing the collapse of the entire Irish Financial system?

Would you have thanked the government for that?
There is a time and place to make revelations. Perhaps when the Irish Financial system is on the point of collapse was not the time.

Liam Byrne · 08-06-2010 7:01pm

T runner wrote: »

Or perhaps the resultant collapse of Anglo for an unprepared government/banking system would have dominoed into BOI and AIB causing the collapse of the entire Irish Financial system?

Would you have thanked the government for that?

Amazing level of supposition there! I'm dealing in facts, while you're presuming this, that and the other.

IF what you're saying is true, then why did the government act surprised when this corruption came to [public] light ?

They've basically ensured that we can't believe a word they say.

At this stage, if Brian Cowen came on TV doing the weather forecast and said we were in for a scorcher, I'd bring a brolly and a mac.

jmayo · 08-06-2010 7:06pm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

At this stage it wouldn't be surprised to hear that the govt ate babies for breakfast

Well funny you should mention that ... the HSE wouldn't notice now would they ?

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

There is a lot more to come out of the closet over the coming months and years. When you think about it, Neary was paid handsomely to slink into the sunset thus avoiding the obligation to appear in front of any committees.

At the same time Anglo was nationalised, there was a gagging order put in place to protect certain information from FOI requests - this was done to "protect the customers"

There's a big smelly rat knocking around somewhere.

Just one ?
I can think of a few dozen and one of them lives in Drumcondra in a house he got from a mate in Manchester.

Nodin wrote: »

O tis true. If theres no rule saying 'members must not have a conflict of interest' then they can't be done for having such.

Seeing as the Germans apparently referred to here as the 'Wild West' in terms of regulation, I think theres far less chance of charges and conviction than many seem to think.

The Germans had warned the Irish regulatory authorities/CB that there was some funny sh** happenign in the IFSC, the same type of funny sh** that brough down one of their banks, Hpyo Real Estate and cost the German taxpayers billions.

Sulmac wrote: »

Just emailed their news desk with links to the BreakingNews.ie and IrishTimes.com stories.

Let's see how they reply.

I bet that email will get stuck in the gateway and disappear. :rolleyes:

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

There is a law against it in my own opinion anyway. I don't see any reason why those involved could not be prosecuted for breaching their fiduciary duty to shareholders.

I think it's laughable that no-one is investigating the issue properly.

Ever wonder why we don't have class action laws in this country ?
If we did there would have been a lot of our connected business people and politicans in jail, starting with the likes of Mr Fyffes and now including most of our bankers.

T runner wrote: »

Or perhaps the resultant collapse of Anglo for an unprepared government/banking system would have dominoed into BOI and AIB causing the collapse of the entire Irish Financial system?

Would you have thanked the government for that?
There is a time and place to make revelations. Perhaps when the Irish Financial system is on the point of collapse was not the time.

Oh the boogie once again about how Anglo would bring armageddon to Ireland.
So you have excuse for this little lapse in regulation by our regulatory authorities (IFSRA, CB and Dept of Finance).

Now any chance you can provide excuses for all the other lapses:

allowing Anglo to loan to it's own select customers so they could buy shares in bank and using said shares as security for the loans (keeping share price up and misleading the markets)
fitzpatrick moving loans to/from INBS and failure to disclose loans in company accounts,
INBS chief executive ignoring societies own lending rules/guidelines,
AIB overcharging and IFSRA ceo liam o'reilly asking AIB internal auditor Eugene McErlean to withdraw allegations
failure of IFSRA to clamp down and fine AIB on Nevis scam
NIB overcharging customers

It is a very long list so better start looking up the excuses. :rolleyes:

Sulmac · 08-06-2010 8:53pm

jmayo wrote: »

I bet that email will get stuck in the gateway and disappear. :rolleyes:

You're probably right - no sign of the story on the RTÉ News website and no reply back. :rolleyes:

Worth a shot, though. :P

Laminations · 08-06-2010 10:18pm

T runner wrote: »

Or perhaps the resultant collapse of Anglo for an unprepared government/banking system would have dominoed into BOI and AIB causing the collapse of the entire Irish Financial system?

Would you have thanked the government for that?
There is a time and place to make revelations. Perhaps when the Irish Financial system is on the point of collapse was not the time.

There is a time and place to gaurantee a bank. Perhaps right after learning they are fiddling their books was not the right time. My god man, either you don't quite grasp the consequences of what FF has done in their complicity with this cover up or you choose to ignore it. I smell a blindly loyal FFer so I'll go with the latter.

Guy:Incognito · 08-06-2010 10:24pm

Dept of Finance you say? The same civil servants that will be in their jobs long after the current and many subsequent governments have been and gone?

thebman · 09-06-2010 12:56am

T runner wrote: »

Can you substantiate your claim that RTE reports that the economy is rounding a corner every second day?

Try subscribing to their RSS Feed and finding out for yourself.

Perhaps you rae exaggerating?
Again exaggeration and speculation on your part.

Its more of an opinion than an exaggeration. You know this being a discussion forum and all that. I never claimed it was fact, I am stating my opinion which is likely all you'll find on boards.ie.

For example you disagree but you have SFA evidence that it would not be damaging to the government if RTE ran with this story.

you dont have any substantiation for your claims of bias whatsoever.

I didn't say they were biased, I said it made them look biased which is again my opinion.

You know what an opinion is right?

T runner · 09-06-2010 2:29pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Amazing level of supposition there! I'm dealing in facts, while you're presuming this, that and the other.

If you say so. The world financial crises occurred. At the time in question we were on teh brink of financial collapse. Are these not facts?

IF what you're saying is true, then why did the government act surprised when this corruption came to [public] light ?

If what im saying is true then they would act surprised.

They've basically ensured that we can't believe a word they say.

You cant believe a work any government says--thats politics!

They say the same in the UK, Greece and France. But if a government revealed something that collapsed the financial system id have preferred if they shut up...wouldnt you?

At this stage, if Brian Cowen came on TV doing the weather forecast and said we were in for a scorcher, I'd bring a brolly and a mac.

Thats your own business i guess. The problem we all have is that the FG leader would call scorcher too should he get the power.

T runner · 09-06-2010 2:34pm

thebman wrote: »

Try subscribing to their RSS Feed and finding out for yourself.

Im not the one making exagerrated claims. If you have sunscribed then you would surely have substantiated what you said. (if you werent exagerating)

Its more of an opinion than an exaggeration. You know this being a discussion forum and all that. I never claimed it was fact, I am stating my opinion which is likely all you'll find on boards.ie.

Your opinion is an exageration of the facts.

For example you disagree but you have SFA evidence that it would not be damaging to the government if RTE ran with this story.

I never claimed it would or wouldnt. Im just claiming your opinion that RTE are in some way biased for the government is completely without substantiation.

You know what an opinion is right?

Now, now.:)

T runner · 09-06-2010 2:39pm

Laminations wrote: »

There is a time and place to gaurantee a bank. Perhaps right after learning they are fiddling their books was not the right time. My god man, either you don't quite grasp the consequences of what FF has done in their complicity with this cover up or you choose to ignore it. I smell a blindly loyal FFer so I'll go with the latter.

Here we go again. If you disagree in any way with an attack on FF or the government you are a blindly loyal FFer.

My politics is none of your business: stick to the argument.

The bank guarantee averted our imminent financial collapse. Would the collapse of Anglo at that point have collapsed our Financial system?

If there is ANY doubt about that then guaranteeing ALL the banks in our interest was the correct choice at the time.

Liam Byrne · 09-06-2010 3:53pm

T runner wrote: »

Here we go again. If you disagree in any way with an attack on FF or the government you are a blindly loyal FFer.

Hmmmm......what should we make of you calling it "an attack" rather than a question or a fact ?

They pretended they didn't know, and used that as an excuse to justify the bailout (knowing that people would really freak if they knew a known corrupt bank was being assisted with our money) and now it appears they knew all along.

Tactics ? Maybe.

But completely unacceptable.

We need open, transparent and honest government in order to convince the country to pull together for the common good.

If someone's lying through their teeth at every single turn, then they won't achieve that.

T runner · 09-06-2010 6:19pm

jmayo wrote: »

Oh the boogie once again about how Anglo would bring armageddon to Ireland.
So you have excuse for this little lapse in regulation by our regulatory authorities (IFSRA, CB and Dept of Finance).

Now any chance you can provide excuses for all the other lapses:
allowing Anglo to loan to it's own select customers so they could buy shares in bank and using said shares as security for the loans (keeping share price up and misleading the markets)

fitzpatrick moving loans to/from INBS and failure to disclose loans in company accounts,

INBS chief executive ignoring societies own lending rules/guidelines,

AIB overcharging and IFSRA ceo liam o'reilly asking AIB internal auditor Eugene McErlean to withdraw allegations

failure of IFSRA to clamp down and fine AIB on Nevis scam

NIB overcharging customers

It is a very long list so better start looking up the excuses. :rolleyes:

We are talking about the Department of Finance in a specific case. Listing out examples of where regulation failed does not have any relevance here (at-least you have not shown it).

The 2 reports open to the public today indicate that the guarantee to the Irish banks probably saved billions.

In an ideal world the government should have disclosed what it knew about Anglo. Let it fall (and the rest of the banks possibly) and atleast the self righteous brigade would be happy.

This would have been the WRONG thing to do for the Irish taxpayer though.

jmayo · 09-06-2010 6:32pm

T runner wrote: »

We are talking about the Department of Finance in a specific case. Listing out examples of where regulation failed does not have any relevance here (at-least you have not shown it).

The 2 reports open to the public today indicate that the guarantee to the Irish banks probably saved billions.

In an ideal world the government should have disclosed what it knew about Anglo. Let it fall (and the rest of the banks possibly) and atleast the self righteous brigade would be happy.

This would have been the WRONG thing to do for the Irish taxpayer though.

Oh but two of those examples of huge failures in regulation are directly linked to Anglo or why are you dismissing those so quickly.

And what about the billions we are now poruing down the Anglo hole ?

Again you appear so sure that it would have been WRONG to not save Anglo.

I am not being self righteous but i just don't like blowing the future of this country on bailing out failed corrupt (morally at least that we know of), fraudently run enterprises.
But of course you and all the other NAMA/bailout supporters always cite that we must bail them out come what may.
Funny how some economists, that have correctly called the whole situation from the start, beg to differ with that opinion.

jmayo · 09-06-2010 7:07pm

Funny how the report today by the Governor of the Central Bank, Mr Patrick Honohan, and the reports by the two international experts, Mr Klaus Regling and Mr Max Watson, are equally as scathing about Irish regulation/government actions as I and many other posters on herehave been. :rolleyes:

Also funny how there has been reference to including Anglo in full bailout, granted they claim that it would have been more costly to leave them out al together.

fliball123 · 10-06-2010 4:46pm

sorry just reading the first page of threads JMayo Your quote below

Well funny you should mention that ... the HSE wouldn't notice now would they ?

CLASSIC

mike65 · 10-06-2010 5:56pm

Anyone listening to Eoghan Harris on Matt Coopers programme? Dear God (or other non specific deity), save us all.

Kess73 · 10-06-2010 6:08pm

mike65 wrote: »

Anyone listening to Eoghan Harris on Matt Coopers programme? Dear God (or other non specific deity), save us all.

Yeah, one has to wonder whether to laugh or cry at times.

Liam Byrne · 10-06-2010 6:30pm

mike65 wrote: »

Anyone listening to Eoghan Harris on Matt Coopers programme? Dear God (or other non specific deity), save us all.

Didn't hear it because I've decided that life is too short to listen to bull**** and get stressed out and frustrated listening to lies and apologists.

Have you a brief summary ?

mike65 · 10-06-2010 6:46pm

Yep, the only Golden Circle was in the banking world, no-one in FF did anything wrong, resiging is un-Irish.

Govt 'knew of deposit falsely propping up Anglo'

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