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Counter-Protest on the 18th.

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13

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    #62
    Shea O'Meara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭Shea O'Meara


    A few points;

    NAMA is a socialist policy, (although bastardized). The people are supporting the banks, because the banks can't support themselves. That's kinda 'beardy' ain't it? To stick to the principles of capitalism would mean letting the banks go to the wall. So it seems socialism if fine when it suits.

    As for the counter protest, you can thank socialist ideals such as the right to protest for that;)

    Also, the Public sector pay and welfare rates wouldn't be as big an issue if the selfists (my cutesy name for the self serving/right wing) weren’t both so corrupt and incompetent respectively.


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Shea O'Meara wrote: »

    As for the counter protest, you can thank socialist ideals such as the right to protest for that;)


    lol?


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    #64
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Ok, so I'd like to get one going for the 18th. We won't march the whole way but we can work out maybe an O' Connell St. counter-protest to the union/leftist driven "anti-bank bailout" protest. We won't follow the full route up to the Dáil because I feel we will be putting ourselves in a potentially dangerous situation.

    Make no mistake that these people do not have our best interests at heart. By our best interests I mean the silent majority in this country who want to see the deficit cut, and for us to return to growth and job creation levels to rise. These people see the Greek rioters as champions of their rights - The rest of us sensible people can see them for what they are.

    What will we be protesting for?
    Well, firstly we will support government (any government) cutbacks in order to decrease our deficit substantially. Cutbacks to welfare and PS budgets. We will be protesting against the threats that have been made against this country by the unions, who think they can hold us all to ransom to get what they want to the detriment of the rest of us and future generations. We will be for a sensible fiscal policy that will see our country dig itself out of the hole it's in now and will set us on a steady course for the future.

    Now we can add more to the list, I'm open to suggestions. I don't care how many people show up, if there's 3 of us or if there's 100 - the point is to make ourselves heard.

    So how did your protest go?


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    #65
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    So how did your protest go?

    How did the protest go last night?
    Have the Bailouts been reversed yet?
    How about NAMA? Has it been disbanded?

    I've listened to the radio all morning, but they don't seem to have passed on the news of the reversals yet. Bloody media.


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    #66
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    There won't be any reversals because the protest had no aims whatsoever, it was no more than a bunch of radical lefties using emotive issues to forward their own agenda. What the hell does an evicted woman have to do with the 'right to work'?

    Pointless exercise led by persons with notions of self-importance.


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    #67
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    800 - 1000? thats it? some mass protest that was...

    Personally (I DONT support the protests reasons, but support peoples right to protest and be heard) it seemed to me that numbers were DOWN on last tuesday and whats a shame is that its as a direct result ot the fringe hardliners killing off the legitimate protest, very un-democratic... glad people stayed away, maybe they can peacefully demonstrate again on a different date without all the looneys coming along.

    Also, this crap of scuffling with the cops FOR NO REASON and shouting we'll be back with more numbers, there arent enough of us to take them on (them being the gardai) etc coming through the loudhailers, now thats just a joke, most of those extreme elements will be rioting for violence sake only. Shipping people down from the north too? WTF, is your home support that bad that you have to bring along away fans!??


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    #68
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    Morphéus,
    I haven't read any reports about last night.

    Did the SF types bring down fellow travellers from the North?
    Why am I not surprised at this.

    Do you have a decent link?


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    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Judging from what I saw on the news last night, and the amount of Eirigi scum that turned up, it's safe to say that any counter protest would have been targeted and assaulted.


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    #70
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Ok, before im hung drawn and quartered... i have re read this article and realise that it was actually written BEFORE the protests, but it seems well informed in the way its written that the protestors were bringing in reinforcements...
    The ranks of the breakaway protesters are being swelled by a group ferried in from Northern Ireland, with participants from Belfast and Portadown identified in the previous demonstrations.
    [url]
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-plan-in-place-to-combat-guerilla-protesters-2183517.html
    [/url]

    A couple of articles here
    http://news.google.ie/news/more?pz=1&cf=all&ned=en_ie&topic=n&ncl=dhHRufuKcAgUKEMKjMxNvubFyL3PM


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    #71
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Somethings wrong with my browser :(

    Anyway this is the article:

    [ul]http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-plan-in-place-to-combat-guerilla-protesters-2183517.html[/url]


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    #72
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    Judging from what I saw on the news last night, and the amount of Eirigi scum that turned up, it's safe to say that any counter protest would have been targeted and assaulted.

    So how did your protest go?

    Did you not protest?


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    #73
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Surely by its nature, a counter protest is just that... the opposite to a protest as in NOT a protest??? hmmm or is that an anti protest? damnit i dunno :p


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    #74
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    WSM Press Release on the protest:
    The hundreds of people attending a protest called by The Workers Solidarity Movement (WSM) and Seomra Spraoi Social Centre tonight at Stephen’s Green showed the growing oppostion to NAMA and the bank bailots. WSM organised a march from Anglo Irish Bank to join the Right to Work demonstration at the Dail.

    As the march moved away from Stephen’s Green, it was met with an aggressive and heavy handed police response. As the three hundred or so demonstators attempted to move onto the road to march to Anglo Irish Bank, Gardai on foot and horses moved in to prevent the march from commencing.

    Gregor Kerr, a WSM spokesperson said “there was a real danger of tonight’s Garda action resulting in serious injuries. Only the discipline shown by the assembled protesters prevented the Gardai from provoking a riot. The change in Gardai tacics over the last week begs the question if this is a new government tactic to deter the growing oposition to their disastarous economic policies.”

    Note both the claim of ownership and the size of the protest.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #75
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Morphéus wrote: »
    800 - 1000? thats it? some mass protest that was...

    Personally (I DONT support the protests reasons, but support peoples right to protest and be heard) it seemed to me that numbers were DOWN on last tuesday and whats a shame is that its as a direct result ot the fringe hardliners killing off the legitimate protest, very un-democratic... glad people stayed away, maybe they can peacefully demonstrate again on a different date without all the looneys coming along.

    Also, this crap of scuffling with the cops FOR NO REASON and shouting we'll be back with more numbers, there arent enough of us to take them on (them being the gardai) etc coming through the loudhailers, now thats just a joke, most of those extreme elements will be rioting for violence sake only. Shipping people down from the north too? WTF, is your home support that bad that you have to bring along away fans!??

    Obviously they only attack gardaí when they outnumber by 10 to 1 like the last time. Thats the way of the coward. God forbid they should get hurt in their "struggle".


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    #76
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    danman wrote: »
    How did the protest go last night?
    Have the Bailouts been reversed yet?
    How about NAMA? Has it been disbanded?

    I've listened to the radio all morning, but they don't seem to have passed on the news of the reversals yet. Bloody media.
    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    So how did your protest go?

    Did you not protest?


    You forgot to answer me.


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    #77
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    danman wrote: »
    You forgot to answer me.

    What an utterly pointless contribution.

    There is a disturbing amount of posters on this forum who actively are opposed to the concept of the idea of the ordinary person taking to the streets to lobby government on a failed economic policy.


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    #78
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    What an utterly pointless contribution.

    There is a disturbing amount of posters on this forum who actively are opposed to the concept of the idea of the ordinary person taking to the streets to lobby government on a failed economic policy.

    Most people are opposed to violent protests and/or protests hijacked or run by unrepresentative groups (SWP/WSM/eirigi etc) rather than protesting in general. In other words, the problem here is that we're not talking about "the ordinary person" - in the sense of "representative of the general public", that is, since I wouldn't deny you your mundanity in any other sense.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #79
    danman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 583 ✭✭✭danman


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    So how did your protest go?
    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    So how did your protest go?

    Did you not protest?
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    What an utterly pointless contribution.

    There is a disturbing amount of posters on this forum who actively are opposed to the concept of the idea of the ordinary person taking to the streets to lobby government on a failed economic policy.

    I was responding in a similar fashion to the above poster.
    I have a reasonable question, which has been ignored.

    Can you edit your post to include the above 2 posts, I agree with your sentiment, but I was responding to equally pointless posts.


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    #80
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Most people are opposed to violent protests and/or protests hijacked or run by unrepresentative groups (SWP/WSM/eirigi etc) rather than protesting in general. In other words, the problem here is that we're not talking about "the ordinary person" - in the sense of "representative of the general public", that is, since I wouldn't deny you your mundanity in any other sense.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Given that they got up to 2,000 people onto the streets last night and given that Rojomcdojo's counter-protest attracted nobody then based on that they're far more representative than your point of view.

    In my opinion there were plenty of folks there "representative" of the general public, not as many as I'd like or hoped for but I'm glad I played my part in the protest.


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    #81
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    danman wrote: »
    How did the protest go last night?
    Have the Bailouts been reversed yet?
    How about NAMA? Has it been disbanded?

    I've listened to the radio all morning, but they don't seem to have passed on the news of the reversals yet. Bloody media.

    Oh so now we expect rhetorical questions to be answered do we?

    The protest went well, not a great turnout but not too bad and consensus seemed to be that numbers were up on last week - the rain probably didn't help with the numbers though.

    The bailouts have not been reversed and NAMA trundles on... I don't know what good these protests will do, if anything at all, but better to try and fail than not bother a jot. At the very least it allows me to channel my frustrations towards this Govt in a positive and peaceful way.

    I will continue to attend unless someone has a better idea...


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    #82
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Given that they got up to 2,000 people onto the streets last night and given that Rojomcdojo's counter-protest attracted nobody then based on that they're far more representative than your point of view.

    In my opinion there were plenty of folks there "representative" of the general public, not as many as I'd like or hoped for but I'm glad I played my part in the protest.

    I'm glad you're glad, but it doesn't change the question of whether your protest is representative or not. The generally given estimate of 1,000 protesters makes this a very small protest - and we already know that groups like SWP, WSM, and eirigi are not representative, because that's been electorally tested on many occasions.

    I appreciate that you can't give up on this one, since you have to believe and/or say that the protests are representative. I'm saying that at this point they're very definitely not, and I suspect we'll have to agree to differ.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #83
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Given that they got up to 2,000 people onto the streets last night and given that Rojomcdojo's counter-protest attracted nobody then based on that they're far more representative than your point of view.

    In my opinion there were plenty of folks there "representative" of the general public, not as many as I'd like or hoped for but I'm glad I played my part in the protest.

    I posted this in the after hours thread but I think its apt here as well.

    Considering there are over 400,000 people unemployed those numbers you quoted are pathetic. Bear in mind that some media outlets are quoting the numbers as low as 1000. Has it been considered that the majority of people in this country wouldn't be seen dead marching with the usual suspects of the rent a protest crowd.

    From the protest videos and photos it appears that they consist of perpetual students, failed malcontents and Republican thugs.

    And also I still see no mention of how any of the people in these marches plan to get us out of this mess?


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    #84
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I'm glad you're glad, but it doesn't change the question of whether your protest is representative or not. The generally given estimate of 1,000 protesters makes this a very small protest - and we already know that groups like SWP, WSM, and eirigi are not representative, because that's been electorally tested on many occasions.

    I appreciate that you can't give up on this one, since you have to believe and/or say that the protests are representative. I'm saying that at this point they're very definitely not, and I suspect we'll have to agree to differ.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Not for a second will I try and say that the protest was representative of the general population, of course it wasn't as groups such as Éirigi, SF, SWP, PBP etc... made up a large % of the assembled crowd. I would much prefer an "independent" non-politically aligned demonstration. For me the important thing is not to garner support for any of the above organisations but to get a very direct and blunt message across to the Government.

    I'm attending these demonstrations because I don't know what else constructive I can do.

    Do I believe that they're going to change anything? Not at the moment they won't, but who knows what might happen if a bit of momentum gets behind them.

    What I do know is that they make me feel better about myself and what's happening in this State of ours. As I said better to try and fail then not try at all.


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    #85
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Most people are opposed to violent protests and/or protests hijacked or run by unrepresentative groups (SWP/WSM/eirigi etc) rather than protesting in general. In other words, the problem here is that we're not talking about "the ordinary person" - in the sense of "representative of the general public", that is, since I wouldn't deny you your mundanity in any other sense.
    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    Are you sure you are a mod? What happened to the play the ball mantra? Or does it only apply to us 'ordinary people'?

    There will be a protest every Tuesday. It may snowball into something that the government can't ignore, it might fizzle out, but as Bob says, it beats being santcimonious about the motives of the Irish left on the internet....

    This is a trade union march supported by dozens of groupings. No-one is hijacking anything. But its easier to sit behind a keyboard and criticise those who stand up and try and do something about it, isn't it.


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    #86
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #87
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I'm glad you're glad, but it doesn't change the question of whether your protest is representative or not. The generally given estimate of 1,000 protesters makes this a very small protest - and we already know that groups like SWP, WSM, and eirigi are not representative, because that's been electorally tested on many occasions.

    I appreciate that you can't give up on this one, since you have to believe and/or say that the protests are representative. I'm saying that at this point they're very definitely not, and I suspect we'll have to agree to differ.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


    So offer an alternitive way for Bob and the overwhelming majority of the Irish population who oppose the governments handling of the crisis to get their voices heard?

    We get it, you don't like the Irish left or the notion of grass roots movements.


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    #88
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    deadtiger wrote: »
    I posted this in the after hours thread but I think its apt here as well.

    Considering there are over 400,000 people unemployed those numbers you quoted are pathetic. Bear in mind that some media outlets are quoting the numbers as low as 1000. Has it been considered that the majority of people in this country wouldn't be seen dead marching with the usual suspects of the rent a protest crowd.

    From the protest videos and photos it appears that they consist of perpetual students, failed malcontents and Republican thugs.

    And also I still see no mention of how any of the people in these marches plan to get us out of this mess?

    Well at least those 1,000 people are trying... what are the other 4,000,000+ in this Republic of ours doing? Maybe I'm completely out of touch here, maybe folks are secretly quite happy with the Govt and if that's the case then I accept that and will continue to be in this minority.

    As for the 400,000 people who are unemplyed, why don't they go and try and do something about this position we're in engineered by weak Govt? I'll join that protest too.


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    #89
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Well at least those 1,000 people are trying... what are the other 4,000,000+ in this Republic of ours doing? Maybe I'm completely out of touch here, maybe folks are secretly quite happy with the Govt and if that's the case then I accept that and will continue to be in this minority.

    As for the 400,000 people who are unemplyed, why don't they go and try and do something about this position we're in engineered by weak Govt? I'll join that protest too.

    You are arguing with a bunch of neo-liberals and FF heads.

    All dissent is suspect, don't waste your time rationalising...


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    #90
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It was a mere guess which I stand by, I reckon there were close to 2,000 at it. If I'm wrong then hey, I'm wrong.


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    #91
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,198 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    You are arguing with a bunch of neo-liberals and FF heads.

    All dissent is suspect, don't waste your time rationalising...

    It's the same everywhere H, it's so easy to sit and snipe at things that are going wrong, it's much more difficult to get involved and make them better.

    I have no idea if what I'm doing will make a difference, I very much doubt it will, but I'm not gonna be the "hurler on the ditch", I'm gonna try.


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