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Fianna Fail's actions are tantamount to murder

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  • 18-04-2010 5:50pm
    #1
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭


    It's time for this shower to clear out. More and more they're turning ordinary working people against each other. Some have even taken their own lives due to their inability to cope without a home or a job. The decision to bail out the banks rather than going back to the basics of human agency is a prime reason why less and less, people are patriotic. Fianna Fail have ruined this country and they must go. Murderers, they've done some damage.

    If somebody marched into their offices tomorrow and shot the whole lot of them, I wouldn't even attend the state funeral and to be honest I'd rather sit on the side of the road in the freezing cold and pissings of rain in a decrepit sleeping bag than sit in a pub with a Fianna Fail minister. They disgust me. The people of this country have been robbed blind and blinded by lies and remain infected by an apathy that needs to be cured.

    Their refusal to hold an open enquiry into the banking system, the way in which they have looked after their own cronies with golden handshakes etc, the closure of special needs schools, the cuts to education, the proposed bulldozing of all of the ghost buildings, the destroying of small businesses such as honest, hard working hotel owners, etc, etc, etc. Where does it end? How much are people willing to stand for? The U.S. and the U.K. have already imprisoned the wrong-doers, why not us?

    They try to shy away from all of this by saying it's in the past and that we need to look forward. If history has thought us anything it's that we need to re-visit the past in order to learn from it and to ensure that the same mistakes are not made ever again. Mary Harney once said that the Irish electorate has a memory of a fortnight. This government's arrogance and belief that they possess a god-given right to ru(i)n this country must be turned on its' head.


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    #2
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    There was a significent element of crony capitalism in this country, true, and the policies this government developed were also problematic, true.

    But whinging about the policies the Irish people and the political establishment demanded over the last 20 years, is worse than dishonest and is self delusional.

    Blame the government all you want, make yourself feel better, but I really do wish that people would take some personal responsibility and accept that the masses driven consumerism and constant speculation (Why the hell did we need to purchase holiday homes in Bulgaria??) and consumption (This constant supply of decking in our overpriced suburban homes) was at the heart of this economic crash. Not to mention forces completely outside of our control. This economy relied on cheap credit from German savers and an intricate international financial system that went to the toilet. We had no power over that.

    The world is much more complex than you give it credit for. A few catchphrases in pubs does not make for a national policy, and doesn't get to the root of why we are in the mess we are in.


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    #3
    Dotsie~tmp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,427 ✭✭✭Dotsie~tmp


    Say it like Taggart used to say it.

    Murrdurrgr


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    #4
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Denerick wrote: »
    There was a significent element of crony capitalism in this country, true, and the policies this government developed were also problematic, true.

    But whinging about the policies the Irish people and the political establishment demanded over the last 20 years, is worse than dishonest and is self delusional.

    Blame the government all you want, make yourself feel better, but I really do wish that people would take some personal responsibility and accept that the masses driven consumerism and constant speculation (Why the hell did we need to purchase holiday homes in Bulgaria??) and consumption (This constant supply of decking in our overpriced suburban homes) was at the heart of this economic crash. Not to mention forces completely outside of our control. This economy relied on cheap credit from German savers and an intricate international financial system that went to the toilet. We had no power over that.

    The world is much more complex than you give it credit for. A few catchphrases in pubs does not make for a national policy, and doesn't get to the root of why we are in the mess we are in.
    As a 3rd level student I have never and never will support this party, their inability alone to lead the country out of this mess, to bring people together is enough without everything else. Denerick, I find it very hard to disagree with a lot of the points you make there but it's also important to remember that they squandered our surplusses to the point where if you read it you wouldn't know if it was a farce or a tragedy.


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    #5
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Voltwad wrote: »
    As a 3rd level student I have never and never will support this party, their inability alone to lead the country out of this mess, to bring people together is enough without everything else. Denerick, I find it very hard to disagree with a lot of the points you make there but it's also important to remember that they squandered our surplusses to the point where if you read it you wouldn't know if it was a farce or a tragedy.

    They raised the level of public spending whilst simultaneously cut the tax burden. I don't recall anyone being disappointed in that.

    Face it, the people are idiots, they supported populist policies, and now everyone is paying the price for being irrational voters. Political parties are reflective of the wishes of the people, this is how representative democracy works. Its a lot easier to blame a small oligarchy in government, the reality is we have ourselves to blame for what has happened. I don't support FF and will never vote for them, but I'm exhausted listening to the whinging of people who only 2 or 3 years beforehand were either voting for FF or FG, who supported in essence the same political policies.


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    #6
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Denerick wrote: »
    They raised the level of public spending whilst simultaneously cut the tax burden. I don't recall anyone being disappointed in that.

    Face it, the people are idiots, they supported populist policies, and now everyone is paying the price for being irrational voters. Political parties are reflective of the wishes of the people, this is how representative democracy works. Its a lot easier to blame a small oligarchy in government, the reality is we have ourselves to blame for what has happened. I don't support FF and will never vote for them, but I'm exhausted listening to the whinging of people who only 2 or 3 years beforehand were either voting for FF or FG, who supported in essence the same political policies.
    Like I said above, you're not listening to one of them here. True, people in this country asked for lower taxes for years and got what they wanted. The end result is a terrible public service with ****e infrastructure in transport and communications, public hospitals in a state and then some. People were voting for them because they were all on the gravy train.


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    #7
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Voltwad wrote: »
    Like I said above, you're not listening to one of them here. True, people in this country asked for lower taxes for years and got what they wanted. The end result is a terrible public service with ****e infrastructure in transport and communications, public hospitals in a state and then some. People were voting for them because they were all on the gravy train.

    Yes, and as a result of voting for what they wanted they got the government they deserved. Hence why its a delegation of personal responsibility to blame the government alone, who persued the policies the political establishment were in consensus over. At the height of the boom years, even the Labour party were calling for tax cuts.


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    #8
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Denerick wrote: »
    Yes, and as a result of voting for what they wanted they got the government they deserved. Hence why its a delegation of personal responsibility to blame the government alone, who persued the policies the political establishment were in consensus over. At the height of the boom years, even the Labour party were calling for tax cuts.
    I'm fully aware of what's happened in the past and I'd like to think that Labour are a different proposition nowadays.


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    #9
    IrishTonyO
    Registered Users Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭IrishTonyO


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I'm fully aware of what's happened in the past and I'd like to think that Labour are a different proposition nowadays.

    They are a different propostion for sure, the cost of implementing their policies would bankrupt the country, be bad for business and therefore employment, their higher taxes would send people out of the country at a faster rate. International companies would not be as inclined to invest here with a labour government and the amount of sway they give unions. And I have no party affiliations whatsoever, I am what they call a floating voter who decides on the issues and the policies at the time


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    #10
    Fulton Crown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭Fulton Crown


    Good on you - that's the way most thinking folk would see it.

    A prevoious poster asked why would people need apartments in Budapest - the answer is they don't need them but there was an investment opportunity.

    You can hardly blame people for tying to take advantage of that ?

    But ..Lenihan apart - this Govt is mad up of the same arseholes who subscribe to the nod and wink way of doing things - who were bosom buddies with Seanie and Fingers and who sucked up to the hard hats at the Galway tent.

    That oaf McCreevy and blubberin Bertie have a lot to answer for ..but its the CULTURE that they espoused and encouraged that's the real killer..

    And has condemmed our children and grandchildren to decades of paying for their profligacy.

    :eek:


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    #11
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I don't see the link to murder.


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    #12
    Fulton Crown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭Fulton Crown


    Voltwad wrote: »
    I'm fully aware of what's happened in the past and I'd like to think that Labour are a different proposition nowadays.

    I can tell you this pal..bad and all as the current lot are ...if the beards or their fellow travellers got anywhere near the levers of power all the bright young talent with any sense would leave the country,

    And they would be so right !


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    #13
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    A prevoious poster asked why would people need apartments in Budapest - the answer is they don't need them but there was an investment opportunity.

    You can hardly blame people for tying to take advantage of that ?
    Well, if we're going to point the finger of blame at the banks who supplied the mortgages...


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    #14
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Well, if we're going to point the finger of blame at the banks who supplied the mortgages...

    No point in pointing the finger of blame at anybody, in a culture where nobody is accountable.


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    #15
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    I can tell you this pal..bad and all as the current lot are ...if the beards or their fellow travellers got anywhere near the levers of power all the bright young talent with any sense would leave the country,

    And they would be so right !


    Erm Hello, all the best and the brightest are already leaving the country.

    The country is fcuked as it stands. If you think its a case of better the devil you know ie FF then you deserve the country you get.


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    #16
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Erm Hello, all the best and the brightest are already leaving the country.

    The country is fcuked as it stands. If you think its a case of better the devil you know ie FF then you deserve the country you get.

    There are plenty of us left :p

    Honestly though, we have a real problem here because FF deserve to be out of power for the next 20 years, and not just out of power, but hammered out where they are a minority party that have to reinvent themselves.
    However, it won't happen and it will be themselves or FG who lead the next government.

    Saying that, if looks like Labour will get in, and god help us if they do. Tax the rich (job creators) out of the country, no more paycuts for anyone less than 35k which leads to lack of competitiveness due to pay pressure on all higher scales.
    We will all be worse off.


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    #17
    Fulton Crown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭Fulton Crown


    MaceFace wrote: »
    There are plenty of us left :p

    Honestly though, we have a real problem here because FF deserve to be out of power for the next 20 years, and not just out of power, but hammered out where they are a minority party that have to reinvent themselves.
    However, it won't happen and it will be themselves or FG who lead the next government.

    Saying that, if looks like Labour will get in, and god help us if they do. Tax the rich (job creators) out of the country, no more paycuts for anyone less than 35k which leads to lack of competitiveness due to pay pressure on all higher scales.
    We will all be worse off.

    Too true we would pal..if any of them deadheads got near the levers of power.

    If any of them shower of lefty crusties get anywhere near power it will be the end of any hope we have.

    And it's quite possible - look at the number of people who voted for the skangers friend Higgins in the last Euro elections.

    Be afraid ...the beards are smelling power....be very afraid....:eek:


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    #18
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    Voltwad wrote: »
    It's time for this shower to clear out. More and more they're turning ordinary working people against each other. Some have even taken their own lives due to their inability to cope without a home or a job. The decision to bail out the banks rather than going back to the basics of human agency is a prime reason why less and less, people are patriotic. Fianna Fail have ruined this country and they must go. Murderers, they've done some damage.

    If somebody marched into their offices tomorrow and shot the whole lot of them, I wouldn't even attend the state funeral and to be honest I'd rather sit on the side of the road in the freezing cold and pissings of rain in a decrepit sleeping bag than sit in a pub with a Fianna Fail minister. They disgust me. The people of this country have been robbed blind and blinded by lies and remain infected by an apathy that needs to be cured.

    Their refusal to hold an open enquiry into the banking system, the way in which they have looked after their own cronies with golden handshakes etc, the closure of special needs schools, the cuts to education, the proposed bulldozing of all of the ghost buildings, the destroying of small businesses such as honest, hard working hotel owners, etc, etc, etc. Where does it end? How much are people willing to stand for? The U.S. and the U.K. have already imprisoned the wrong-doers, why not us?

    They try to shy away from all of this by saying it's in the past and that we need to look forward. If history has thought us anything it's that we need to re-visit the past in order to learn from it and to ensure that the same mistakes are not made ever again. Mary Harney once said that the Irish electorate has a memory of a fortnight. This government's arrogance and belief that they possess a god-given right to ru(i)n this country must be turned on its' head.

    They were elected by the people and they'll govern until the mandate expires in 2012.

    I would then expect FF to get enough votes to form a coalition again.

    Any of the smaller parties (including labour) will queue up to go into Govt with FF.

    When will people like you wake up and realise that Ireland is a single party system.

    FF have been in power for the vast majority of the existance and that's always going to be the case.

    By the time 2012 rolls around, the Irish electorate will have forgotten any grudge they have against FF and will return them to power.

    The Irish electorate talk a good game but they'll NEVER abandon FF.


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    #19
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Fulton Crown wrote: »

    Be afraid ...the beards are smelling power....be very afraid....:eek:

    yeah cos they have had no influence over FF for the last 12 years. :rolleyes:


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    #20
    deadbloke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭deadbloke


    Hugo Drax wrote: »
    FF have been in power for the vast majority of the existance and that's always going to be the case.

    By the time 2012 rolls around, the Irish electorate will have forgotten any grudge they have against FF and will return them to power.

    The Irish electorate talk a good game but they'll NEVER abandon FF.

    Very true. Never underestimate the short term memory of the Irish voter.


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    #21
    Spiritoftheseventies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,082 ✭✭✭✭Spiritoftheseventies


    What i dont understand is why the Government through Nama are leaving it till September to chase after the developers. Most of them will have transferred their properties into their wives names by then. Just dont know if Government really has the will to take these people on. And by all accounts they turned their one back on the man (ie Quinn) who seemed to providing employment for an awful lot of people


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    #22
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Voltwad wrote: »
    As a 3rd level student
    Would you have still been a 3rd level student if they didn't bring in free fees back in '96?


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    #23
    The Volt
    Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    the_syco wrote: »
    Would you have still been a 3rd level student if they didn't bring in free fees back in '96?
    'free'? I paid 1500 for my college fees this year, an increase of 66% from the previous year.


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    #24
    Elevator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    Denerick wrote: »
    They raised the level of public spending whilst simultaneously cut the tax burden. I don't recall anyone being disappointed in that.

    Face it, the people are idiots, they supported populist policies, and now everyone is paying the price for being irrational voters. Political parties are reflective of the wishes of the people, this is how representative democracy works. Its a lot easier to blame a small oligarchy in government, the reality is we have ourselves to blame for what has happened. I don't support FF and will never vote for them, but I'm exhausted listening to the whinging of people who only 2 or 3 years beforehand were either voting for FF or FG, who supported in essence the same political policies.

    bull****, if the sheep get lost who do ya blame

    the sheep or the shepard?

    they knew f-ing well what they are doing, they are crafty hoors and dont think they're not

    dont get me started


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    #25
    bijapos
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭bijapos


    Hugo Drax I would then expect FF to get enough votes to form a coalition again.

    Any of the smaller parties (including labour) will queue up to go into Govt with FF.

    I think you're well wide of the mark here. The only possibility after the next election is FG-Lab. I seriously do not see FG getting 83+ seats, unless Labour screw up big time on some issue. FF will not get near 70 seats no matter how much the economy picks up, I think 48 at the very worst, 64 absolute max, but would bet on 55 +/- 3.

    So FF's only real possibility would be a coalition with Labour. This is not going to happen. Gilmore has said so on a number of occasions, this weekend just past is only the most recent. I

    f he were to do so he would lose all form of respect for himself and his party amongst his own voters and swing/floating voters and would damn the party for another 15-20 years after.

    He will not make this mistake.


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    #26
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Elevator wrote: »
    bull****, if the sheep get lost who do ya blame

    the sheep or the shepard?

    they knew f-ing well what they are doing, they are crafty hoors and dont think they're not

    dont get me started

    Yes, I'd imagine once you'd get started the rest of the rabble would join in :)


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    #27
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    the_syco wrote: »
    Would you have still been a 3rd level student if they didn't bring in free fees back in '96?

    That was the Labour party that did that, not Fianna Fail.


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    #28
    Tender Hoop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭Tender Hoop


    I like ice cream


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    #29
    Hugo Drax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Hugo Drax


    bijapos wrote: »
    I think you're well wide of the mark here. The only possibility after the next election is FG-Lab. I seriously do not see FG getting 83+ seats, unless Labour screw up big time on some issue. FF will not get near 70 seats no matter how much the economy picks up, I think 48 at the very worst, 64 absolute max, but would bet on 55 +/- 3.

    So FF's only real possibility would be a coalition with Labour. This is not going to happen. Gilmore has said so on a number of occasions, this weekend just past is only the most recent. I

    f he were to do so he would lose all form of respect for himself and his party amongst his own voters and swing/floating voters and would damn the party for another 15-20 years after.

    He will not make this mistake.

    It's not like Labour haven't sold their souls for office before, Dick Spring ring a bell??


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    #30
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Elevator wrote: »
    bull****, if the sheep get lost who do ya blame

    the sheep or the shepard?

    they knew f-ing well what they are doing, they are crafty hoors and dont think they're not

    dont get me started

    Exactly, just because people voted for them (not me btw), it does not absolve them of the responsibility to govern in a responsible way. Which of course they did not do, they encouraged irresponsible lending and development through light touch regulation and lax planning, they gave away billions in benchmarking agreements which we now cannot pay for, they've done nothing about waste in government and public services and they've mortaged the nations future to this doomed nama enterprise and zombie banks like Anglo.

    Being voted in does not mean that they should be able to act like chancers, conmen and gombeens and if they have (and we know that they have) they should be run out of power.


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    #31
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Elevator wrote: »
    bull****, if the sheep get lost who do ya blame

    the sheep or the shepard?

    they knew f-ing well what they are doing, they are crafty hoors and dont think they're not

    dont get me started

    Irish voters have continually supported FF, even though it seems pretty obvious that they have been absolutely rotten on banking and economic regulation since the 1970s. Everyone was fat and happy from 1997-2007, and willing to turn a blind eye, even if anyone with half a brain could see where the real estate market was heading. And I wouldn't be surprised if FF were to pull something off in 2012, especially if there is an economic recovery - that election is a looooong ways away.


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