Some moths I record in my garden

kincsem · 10-12-2008 8:49pm

BBC1 at the moment - Blue Tit chicks eat 35,000,000,000 moth caterpillars in Britain each year. :eek:

The program was showing moths caught in moth traps. I switched on in mid-program and only saw about a minute of the moths part.

BBC1 20:30 Wednesday ... Wild About Your Garden ... unfortunately outside the UK we can not watch the video of the program on the BBC website.

GhostInTheRuins · 12-08-2009 11:47am

This is a great thread that deserves a bump I think.

I thought I'd found an interesting type of moth a couple of weeks ago untill I found this thread, I never realised there were so many varieties out there, fascinating stuff!

Here's the one I found, I think it looks similar to the one Alun Posted last year, Oak Eggar, but I could be wrong:

This is the best I could get of his wings unfortuantely:

Mothman · 16-08-2009 10:03pm

GhostInTheRuins wrote: »

Here's the one I found, I think it looks similar to the one Alun Posted last year, Oak Eggar, but I could be wrong:

Yes it is Oak Eggar, though the form in Ireland is generally known as Northern Eggar.
I love the front on view.
Would you PM me details of sighting and I'll enter it in the MothsIreland database?
Date Location with grid ref.
www.gridreference.ie

GhostInTheRuins · 16-08-2009 10:45pm

Mothman wrote: »

Yes it is Oak Eggar, though the form in Ireland is generally known as Northern Eggar.
I love the front on view.
Would you PM me details of sighting and I'll enter it in the MothsIreland database?
Date Location with grid ref.
www.gridreference.ie

Cheers.

PM is on the way

Durnish · 03-09-2009 8:29am

Mothman, do you identify caterpillars as well?
The dunes around Rosbeg were full of really long hairy caterpillars last week. Have some pics coming shortly.

Mothman · 03-09-2009 8:44am

Durnish wrote: »

Mothman, do you identify caterpillars as well?
The dunes around Rosbeg were full of really long hairy caterpillars last week. Have some pics coming shortly.

My experience is limited but I can work out most, though struggle to separate White Ermine and Buff Ermine, but neither of these are "really long"

Durnish · 03-09-2009 8:50am

here's the dune cat,

and here's the mountainside cat. Quite beautiful.

Mothman · 03-09-2009 9:08am

The dune larva is Fox Moth and another link

The moutain larva is Emperor Moth

Would you PM me details of sighting and I'll enter it in the MothsIreland database?
Date, numbers seen, location with grid ref (www.gridreference.ie) and name, though if you rather prefer I enter "unknown recorder"

littlebug · 03-09-2009 9:25am

I saw one similar to the Fox Moth larva except he looked completely black. He could have been 4 inches long. I may just not have noticed the brown parts... it was 3am and he was making his way across my kitchen floor

The place was also coming down with the little yellow and black lads in the picture below. I've tried to figure out what they are to no avail but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. My daughter took a real shine to them so it would be nice to be able to tell her what they are/ turn into.

Mothman · 03-09-2009 9:35am

littlebug wrote: »

The place was also coming down with the little yellow and black lads in the picture below.

Cinnabar Moth caterpillar and another link They eat Ragwort

As for the middle of night kitchen Larva Oak Eggar is a possibility as well. What time of year. I can't imagine you were looking at the finer detail

but was it hairy or not?

littlebug · 03-09-2009 9:44am

Thanks Mothman, i think she'll like that one

. They were indeed all over the ragwort.

I don't think the oak eggar is the kitchen caterpillar.. he seemed very black and very hairy but as you say I wasn't looking at the finer detail. This was about 3 weeks ago.

edit.... although looking again at the pictures there the later stage one could be a possibility. I also found a cocoon stuck to the bottom of a bag that looked just like that one.

Durnish · 03-09-2009 8:36pm

thanks Mothman,
grid ref for the green one is
696 894, a mountainside townland called Barkillew. (you can see it in the Donegal photo game thread, but don't be telling them)

pops · 03-09-2009 8:58pm

Amazing photos - is it difficult to get them to stay still?

Mothman · 03-09-2009 9:21pm

pops wrote: »

Amazing photos - is it difficult to get them to stay still?

General no. Most moth species are nocturnal and rest by day, so sort of in sleep mode during day. The heavier moth usually can't fly from cold anyway, they need to warm their wing muscles for a while (perhaps minutes) before flying. This takes much energy and they are usually relunctant to start this process, so they are usually very cooperative. The lighter (more butterfly type) and small moths can fly from cold and they are more problematic to photo, but a little patience goes a long way.

Mothman · 03-09-2009 9:25pm

littlebug wrote: »

Thanks Mothman, i think she'll like that one . They were indeed all over the ragwort.

I don't think the oak eggar is the kitchen caterpillar.. he seemed very black and very hairy but as you say I wasn't looking at the finer detail. This was about 3 weeks ago.

edit.... although looking again at the pictures there the later stage one could be a possibility. I also found a cocoon stuck to the bottom of a bag that looked just like that one.

Recent and pupated rules out some likely species. Fox Moth and Drinker Moth overwinter as caterpillars.I therefore think it's most likely Oak/Northern Eggar.
If you still have the cocoon, you could keep and see what emerges, though probably next year though if indoors maybe much earlier.

littlebug · 03-09-2009 10:08pm

Mothman wrote: »

Recent and pupated rules out some likely species. Fox Moth and Drinker Moth overwinter as caterpillars.I therefore think it's most likely Oak/Northern Eggar.
If you still have the cocoon, you could keep and see what emerges, though probably next year though if indoors maybe much earlier.

I was browsing through one of the websites you linked to earlier and had also picked out the Northern Eggar as a possibility.. mainly based on the cocoon (assuming it was made by the same species). I'm willing to concede that it being 4 inches long may have been a figment of my bleary 3am imagination. I didn't think to keep the cocoon. This wasn't at home... so the cocoon appeared during that the 10 days we were there. We needed the bag when we were leaving so I re-located it outside. I'll check if it's still there next time... if the birds haven't had it.

mellickricky · 03-09-2009 10:20pm

I just came across this thread...I love it MOTHMAN your the man, its a great thread.

You may find this interesting or maybe not but il tell you (moth man). I did my thesis about fox diet compared seasonal and geographic variations....In afew foxes I found that the stomachs were full, packed full of (Noctua pronuba) caterpillars. I was really surprised until I began to find other unexpected visitors

Do you know if that would be common for them to be a prey species of large mammals?

I concluded that foxes are oppertunistic omnivores literally preying on any availabe and easily taken food source.

Mothman · 04-09-2009 7:27am

mellickricky wrote: »

I just came across this thread...I love it MOTHMAN your the man, its a great thread.

You may find this interesting or maybe not but il tell you (moth man). I did my thesis about fox diet compared seasonal and geographic variations....In afew foxes I found that the stomachs were full, packed full of (Noctua pronuba) caterpillars. I was really surprised until I began to find other unexpected visitors

Do you know if that would be common for them to be a prey species of large mammals?

I concluded that foxes are oppertunistic omnivores literally preying on any availabe and easily taken food source.

Thanks for that info ricky about foxes diet. That is really interesting! And yes, they make up a significant part of Badgers diet as well - much more so in Irish badgers compared to badgers in Britain. Perhaps you may be able to locate the paper.

By the way for anone else reading this, Noctua pronuba = Large Yellow Underwing. An abundant moth in grassland across all of Ireland.

Mothman · 04-09-2009 7:28am

littlebug wrote: »

I was browsing through one of the websites you linked to earlier and had also picked out the Northern Eggar as a possibility.. mainly based on the cocoon (assuming it was made by the same species). I'm willing to concede that it being 4 inches long may have been a figment of my bleary 3am imagination. I didn't think to keep the cocoon. This wasn't at home... so the cocoon appeared during that the 10 days we were there. We needed the bag when we were leaving so I re-located it outside. I'll check if it's still there next time... if the birds haven't had it.

Littlebug, I did convert your 4 inches to 3 inches, BUT, if it was perhaps really about 2 inches then that brings many other species into contention...

mellickricky · 04-09-2009 8:32am

Mothman wrote: »

Thanks for that info ricky about foxes diet. That is really interesting! And yes, they make up a significant part of Badgers diet as well - much more so in Irish badgers compared to badgers in Britain. Perhaps you may be able to locate the paper.

By the way for anone else reading this, Noctua pronuba = Large Yellow Underwing. An abundant moth in grassland across all of Ireland.

Il dig it out and send it on...remind me if i forget...il be watching the thread.

littlebug · 04-09-2009 8:52am

Mothman wrote: »

Littlebug, I did convert your 4 inches to 3 inches, BUT, if it was perhaps really about 2 inches then that brings many other species into contention...

It definitely wasn't 2 inches ..I would say it was at least 3.;)

Mothman · 06-09-2009 9:57pm

I've had numerous requests since last picture upload for more. I've gone through and picked out interesting ones from past few months. Not all from garden as I do some recording away from home.

Blood-vein, The Raven Co. Wexford. Rarely recorded now though I had one in garden a few years back

Frosted Orange, 2 nights ago in Garden

Yellow-tail caterpillar. A number of them feeding on Bistort one metre from my front door.

Archer's Dart. This one at coast, but I've seen it in the garden

Barred Straw. photo seems to be slightly out of focus, but the resting posture makes this moth quite distinctive. Regular in garden.

Beautiful Brocade. Kerry in early June

A very green Brindled Green. 2 nights ago in garden. Often this species has scarcely any green. I've never seen one so green.

Campion Not sure where this was taken, but it do see it in garden most years

Little Emerald
A fresh specimen. This species fades to white quite quickly.

More to follow...

Mothman · 06-09-2009 10:11pm

Micropterix aureatella This one is tiny, about 5mm long. But small is beautiful...

This Swallow-tailed moth was caught by a spider, Misumena vatia

3 views of a male Fox Moth. Daytime flyer, but this one came to a light trap. The bottom picture is typical resting posture. I though the front on view looked a bit like a large animal and the top one is getting ready to fly.

2 views of Clouded Buff. I've seen it in garden many years ago, but the top one was seen in Kerry and the lower one with hindwings on view was at coast in south Co. Wicklow

3 views of the same moth. A Canary-shouldered Thorn in the garden 2 days ago.

That's all for now.

Mothman · 06-09-2009 10:55pm

I received a PM which included the following
"I wanted to ask you about the relationship between moths and light .

1. Why are they (and other things) attracted to bright light ?
and
2. what impact do you think artificial lights have had on the moth population ?? "

I'm sure there are others with similar questions, so I'll answer here.

I don't know the answer to question one. There are theories.
One is that moths use light to aid navigation. By keeping the moon to one side they can fly straight. However when this moon is a nearby light, the effect of keeping this light on one side is that they fly in circles, ever decreasing till they reach the ligt.

Another theory is that they are dazzled by the light. The compound eye of the moth turns the light into a ring and they fly towards the dark centre of the ring and end up at the light.

I'm sure there are other theories.

Question 2 was asking my opinion. Definitely an impact, but this impact will vary depending on the species. The impact is distracting the moths from their normal activities and affecting the predator/prey relationship to name 2. While I think lights have a negative impact in general, I feel there are many other factors having a greater negative impact, such as loss of native habitat.

Some reading material
8 page pdf about Ecological Light Pollution

31 page pdf about Impact of outdoor lighting on moths

I realise that this post may provoke discusison away from my intention for this thread. If this does happen, I'll ask a mod to clean this thread by moving this post and follow ups to a new thread.

Durnish · 08-09-2009 9:14am

Moths must use light and scent to pollinate the butterfly orchids at night.

mellickricky · 08-09-2009 10:11pm

I was at my back door looking at the moon and I noticed a moth hanging out at the door so i let him in to have a closer look to my girlfriends distress.

It headed for the light as I went to get my camera and when I got back the following had happened.Ref the jpeg.

My new found interest in moths inspired by "mothman" has led me being involved in a murder.

The irony...I was just trying to help.

I think it looked like an Emerald but im probably so wrong.

Sorry Mothman:(

Durnish · 10-09-2009 12:37pm

Silver Ys on wing in my garden now.

Mothman · 10-09-2009 9:21pm

mellickricky wrote: »

I was at my back door looking at the moon and I noticed a moth hanging out at the door so i let him in to have a closer look to my girlfriends distress.

It headed for the light as I went to get my camera and when I got back the following had happened.Ref the jpeg.

My new found interest in moths inspired by "mothman" has led me being involved in a murder.

The irony...I was just trying to help.

I think it looked like an Emerald but im probably so wrong.

Sorry Mothman:(

You know spiders need to live as well! Part of nature. The moth is well beyond identification!
And I've been there with trying to help nature with unexpected outcome. Its one for the story thread!

And to repeat Durnish's sighting. Silver Y are abundant at moment especially in the sunshine. Most gardens with nectar plants will probably have Silver Y. Peak time is at sunset or a little after.

Birdnuts · 12-09-2009 2:07pm

Mothman wrote: »

And to repeat Durnish's sighting. Silver Y are abundant at moment especially in the sunshine. Most gardens with nectar plants will probably have Silver Y. Peak time is at sunset or a little after.

Are the numbers up this year Angus cos I'm seeing them everywhere ATM??:)

Durnish · 12-09-2009 5:31pm

hah ha, hummingbird hawk moth, seen in my garden today. First one this year.
I may be further north than most of the rest of youse.

Mothman · 12-09-2009 7:07pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

Are the numbers up this year Angus cos I'm seeing them everywhere ATM??:)

You may recall the Painted Lady influx at end of May. A lot of Silver Y came in then and what we are seeing now are the progeny of that influx.

Durnish · 13-09-2009 8:29am

does the hummingbird hawkmoth have a new generation as well,
or do a new lot fly in from le Continonc?

Mothman · 13-09-2009 11:34am

There can be immigrants coming in any time and while I don't think a complete life cycle in Ireland has been proved, I'm sure it has happened.

It is also possible that the occassional adult hibernates in Ireland particularly in southerncoastal areas

Mabel · 15-09-2009 11:53am

Not sure whether this is alright to post ID queries here but sure here goes! I'm guessing this is a Hedge or Common Rustic but I'm not sure. It seemed very comfortable in my hand and was released after the photo was taken.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/twinlamps/IMG_5551.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m258/twinlamps/IMG_5556.jpg

Once again, apologies if this is hi-jacking the thread!

Mothman · 15-09-2009 2:07pm

Mabel wrote: »

Once again, apologies if this is hi-jacking the thread!

No worries Mabel,

I'd probably miss it if in different thread.
This is a rustic, Square-spot Rustic.
A very variable species and about in large numbers at moment.

littlebug · 22-06-2010 8:51pm

Resurrecting this thread with a question. My daughter found this moth in trouble on the grass today. He seems to have a chunk of wing missing.
She put him up on the butterfly box where he seemed to settle.
What is it? Does he have any chance of survival?

Mothman · 22-06-2010 9:01pm

littlebug wrote: »

Resurrecting this thread with a question. My daughter found this moth in trouble on the grass today. He seems to have a chunk of wing missing.
She put him up on the butterfly box where he seemed to settle.
What is it? Does he have any chance of survival?

This is a Large Yellow Underwing, an abundant moth of grassland.

Rather than a chunk of wing missing, it appears that the wings did not expand fully when it emerged from its pupa. Emergence is always a hazardess time and not all complete it successfully. The wings play no part in the health, meaning that it will live for as long as it doesn't get eaten or its reserves run out. It is probably unable to fly and so is easy prey for birds, spiders etc. Most moths end up as prey anyway. They play a vital part of foodchain.

littlebug · 22-06-2010 9:06pm

Mothman wrote: »

It is probably unable to fly and so is easy prey for birds, spiders etc. Most moths end up as prey anyway.

Oh so we haven't done it any favours putting up there then? I assume it'll be gone in the morning one way or another.

Mothman · 22-06-2010 9:12pm

littlebug wrote: »

Mothman wrote: »

It is probably unable to fly and so is easy prey for birds, spiders etc. Most moths end up as prey anyway.

Oh so we haven't done it any favours putting up there then? I assume it'll be gone in the morning one way or another.

I wouldn't concern yourself with rights or wrongs. There are moths everywhere. Anyone garden will inevitably be walking on them, digging them up taking their foodplant away, list goes on....driving a car...
Anything that succumbs to our activities will not go to waste. It'll be fodder for something else, quite often little things such as ants. Nature doesn't waste.

Oh, it may well be still there in morning

mike65 · 22-06-2010 9:22pm

Cool thread, now I know why you are called....etc!

I had a moth in the cars vents yesterday, it suddenly lifted out from the gap between the windscreen and the dashboard then went back inside. Managed to set it free when it popped up again.

Mothman · 22-06-2010 9:41pm

mike65 wrote: »

Cool thread, now I know why you are called....etc!

splish · 22-06-2010 10:04pm

Great thread mothman. Some interesting looking moths from everyone. Found this moth in my kitchen the other day. Thinking its a White Ermine moth but not sure.

Mothman · 22-06-2010 10:18pm

Splish, it is a White Ermine.

John mac · 23-06-2010 12:25pm

Think this is a ghost moth.

Mothman · 23-06-2010 1:37pm

John mac wrote: »

Think this is a ghost moth.

It is, a female.

The male is white and can be seen in meadows at dusk "dancing" at grass seed level.
The term for this dancing is Lekking.

splish · 23-06-2010 7:47pm

Heres another one. Looking at the UK Moths website it looks like a Lesser Cream Wave.

Sorry about the poor picture quality.

Mothman · 23-06-2010 9:56pm

splish wrote: »

Heres another one. Looking at the UK Moths website it looks like a Lesser Cream Wave.

Sorry about the poor picture quality.

Don't worry about picture quality. Its fine for identification.
This is a Cream Wave, rather than a Lesser Cream Wave.
The shape and the cross lines differ slightly.
I assume this was seen in southern half of country

splish · 23-06-2010 10:18pm

Mothman wrote: »

I assume this was seen in southern half of country

Yes the picture was taken in Wexford on a beautiful sunny day. Is the species restricted to the southern half of Ireland?

Half-cocked · 06-07-2010 12:02am

This flew into the kitchen tonight. I think it is a Buff Arches? Very exotic looking creature.
picture.php?albumid=695&pictureid=6737

Mothman · 06-07-2010 5:50am

splish wrote: »

Yes the picture was taken in Wexford on a beautiful sunny day. Is the species restricted to the southern half of Ireland?

Splish, I missed the question added in via edit

See MothsIreland map for recorded distribution of cream wave

This flew into the kitchen tonight. I think it is a Buff Arches? Very exotic looking creature.

It is Buff Arches, A nice fresh one as well. Fresh meaning, no sign of wear.
A widespread species

I like to enter all sightings into database including casual ones to help fill in gaps. PM me details, location, Grid reference (use www.gridreference.ie ) date and full name, though I can enter anonymous

Some moths I record in my garden

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