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Advise on Sports massage.

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  • 23-04-2009 8:33pm
    #1
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    Ok I've now injury or problems or any issues that need medical advise ;) . Just wondering on the benifits of Sports massage when you have no problems . I've read from a couple of logs that people do go in for the odd sports massage do you feel you get benifit from theses and at what stage in a training cycle do you go for one?

    Have gone for one or 2 in the past but usually when I feel issue coming on, but thinking of maybe going in for a nct this week .

    Cheers.


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    #2
    ZiggyStardust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭ZiggyStardust


    Hey Shels,
    I used to get a sports massage before marathons and found them great. I now get them every 3-4 months. Can be great for loosening up muscles and ligaments. I found them very painful when i got them first (after about 300+miles of training, but now don't find them too bad.


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    #3
    Ruarl Runner
    Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭Ruarl Runner


    Rather than a sports massage has anyone tried cryotherapy (aka an ice-bath!!). I have found these great for the legs particularily after a hard weeks training or a long run... Bloody freezing initially :eek: but worth it....:D


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    #4
    ZiggyStardust
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭ZiggyStardust


    A friend of mine goes for a run and his wife fills the wheely bin (They have one dedicated for this) with water and ice, and he jumps into it when he gets back. Don't think it's for me though although have never tried.


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    #5
    violator13
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭violator13


    The latest thinking on ice baths are that they are good for contact sports like rugby where you might ship a knock,but actually delay muscle recovery and fatigue so dont go near them unless you are bruised or slightlty mad!!


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    #6
    shels4ever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭shels4ever


    violator13 wrote: »
    The latest thinking on ice baths are that they are good for contact sports like rugby where you might ship a knock,but actually delay muscle recovery and fatigue so dont go near them unless you are bruised or slightlty mad!!

    Cheers, Don't think i'd trust my OH not to close the lid on the bin anyway....


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    #7
    thirstywork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭thirstywork


    I had this discussion with a massage therapist tonight.He swears by the ice baths for recovery.he also got testing done in Australia in the institute of sport.
    Regarding massage i would recomend one every second week but laot depends on how intense or prone to injuries you are.


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    #8
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    thirstywork wrote: »
    I had this discussion with a massage therapist tonight.He swears by the ice baths for recovery.he also got testing done in Australia in the institute of sport.
    Regarding massage i would recomend one every second week but laot depends on how intense or prone to injuries you are.

    A scientest (can't remember his name) from the Aussie Institute of Sport at the Nutrition conference in Croke Park in '07 said there was no evidence to suggest the benefits of ice baths based on their research. He said if it makes you feel better go for it though.


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    #9
    BeepBeep67
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    ...plus you'll end up with an inny rather than an outy :D


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    #10
    trotter_inc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭trotter_inc


    How much do ppl normally pay for a sports massage? My local guy in Cork charges €50 for about 20 minutes, thought this was quite expensive but perhaps not....


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    #11
    SUNGOD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,411 ✭✭✭SUNGOD


    30 to 40 euro in waterford depending on who you go to.
    and the shortest ive been in for would be 30minutes the longest 60 minutes


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    #12
    hunnymonster
    Registered Users Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭hunnymonster


    trotter_inc wrote: »
    How much do ppl normally pay for a sports massage? My local guy in Cork charges €50 for about 20 minutes, thought this was quite expensive but perhaps not....
    I'm €50 for about an hour in Cork with a guy I rate very very highly.


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    #13
    trotter_inc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭trotter_inc


    hunnymonster wrote: »
    I'm €50 for about an hour in Cork with a guy I rate very very highly.

    Ok I am getting ripped off!! Hunnymonster, would you mind PM-ing me your guys details please? I actually work and run in Cork but live in Macroom.


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    #14
    hunnymonster
    Registered Users Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭hunnymonster


    done.


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    #15
    RJC
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭RJC


    trotter_inc wrote: »
    Ok I am getting ripped off!! Hunnymonster, would you mind PM-ing me your guys details please? I actually work and run in Cork but live in Macroom.

    I got one done for €50 in Cork before Rotterdam - it took over an hour. It felt like he had a radar in his fingertips for finding the painful bits. I didn't feel any benefit that stretching and rest wouldn't have brought about so I don't see myself getting another one for a while.


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    #16
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    I used to do sports massage in college so got them done twice a week from classmates, for free. Haven't had one done since but really feel like I could use one now actually. Anyone know anywhere in Dublin City Centre or the general area to get a good one, preferably from a male as women are too weak.


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    #17
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    shels4ever wrote: »
    Ok I've now injury or problems or any issues that need medical advise ;) . Just wondering on the benifits of Sports massage when you have no problems . I've read from a couple of logs that people do go in for the odd sports massage do you feel you get benifit from theses and at what stage in a training cycle do you go for one?

    Have gone for one or 2 in the past but usually when I feel issue coming on, but thinking of maybe going in for a nct this week .

    Cheers.

    I go twice month. Not for a massage as such but more a release of muscles in spasm and working on the specific muscle groups that if left tweaked will ultimately lead to injury. Poking, prodding and making me cry more than a massage.


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    #18
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Ruarl Runner wrote: »
    Rather than a sports massage has anyone tried cryotherapy (aka an ice-bath!!). I have found these great for the legs particularily after a hard weeks training or a long run... Bloody freezing initially :eek: but worth it....:D

    No evidence to back this up. Unfortunately I only found this out after a year of jumping into a bath of ice. Waste of time.


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    #19
    thirstywork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭thirstywork


    Differn't strokes for differn't folks i guess.Bit like compression gear if you ask me,alot in the head.


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    #20
    rigal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭rigal


    tunney wrote: »
    No evidence to back this up. Unfortunately I only found this out after a year of jumping into a bath of ice. Waste of time.

    I wouldn't say it's a waste of time at all. Seems to work for me every time so that's enough evidence for me. Have been to a neuromuscular therapist and a physio recently and they both recommended it. I've been told that the cold causes faster bloodflow to the leg muscles as you put them under and this helps clear out lactic and aid repair to muscle tissue etc...


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    #21
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    tunney wrote: »
    No evidence to back this up. Unfortunately I only found this out after a year of jumping into a bath of ice. Waste of time.

    I was forced to have an ice cold shower after the Connemara Ultra...my top notch hotel had no hot water and I had no muscle soreness the next morning, though this could have been down to my extended 'cool down' during the latter stages of the ultra and not the cold water. Who knows really.


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    #22
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    rigal wrote: »
    I wouldn't say it's a waste of time at all. Seems to work for me every time so that's enough evidence for me. Have been to a neuromuscular therapist and a physio recently and they both recommended it. I've been told that the cold causes faster bloodflow to the leg muscles as you put them under and this helps clear out lactic and aid repair to muscle tissue etc...

    Ah right. Sorry. Hand't realised that some one you know recommended it. Changes everything. Silly scientists must have not talked to them during their research.


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    #23
    rigal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭rigal


    tunney wrote: »
    Ah right. Sorry. Hand't realised that some one you know recommended it. Changes everything. Silly scientists must have not talked to them during their research.

    No need to get sarcy just because someone has a different view to yours or the "scientists". It's not like I was discussing this with some randommers down the pub. This was advice from trained practicioners - But then maybe you know more than them as well :rolleyes:


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    #24
    thirtyfoot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭thirtyfoot


    I must have been reading the work of the same scientists as Tunney because as far as I've seen there is no scientific backup to the benefit of ice baths despite the fact I too have been told by physios etc of their benefit.

    Who would you believe, your local physio or some punter from the AIS. But as the guy from AIS said, if you feel it works for you keep using it. Never worked for me. He said the same about massages and for them I feel they do work for me. So with everything in the art and science of training its a case of applying science with your own experiences and making a call on it.


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    #25
    Racing Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Racing Flat


    tunney wrote: »
    No evidence to back this up. Unfortunately I only found this out after a year of jumping into a bath of ice. Waste of time.

    At least you only spent a year doing it - think of all the people who did this all their careers :eek:.

    I wonder how many other things are like this - stretching, core work, taking supplements, for which there is no conclusive evidence that they reduce injury prevalence or improve performance, yet people still spend lots of time doing them?

    On this I think Sonia wrote in her book, that maybe the ice baths didn't work but as they weren't doing any harm, if there was any chance they were helping, it was worth a go. I disagree with this, because where do we draw the line? Are we going to do everything that is purported to help improve performance even though there may be no evidence?

    Spending this time doing other things in your life and not contemplating your event might be better for the mental strength I think, don't be so preoccupied, be a bit more relaxed about it all. Paula Radcliffe locking herself away with just coach and physical therapist at high altitude for months before Athens might testify to this. IMO such blinkered focus on the event, where 24hours a day her life was focused on training, recovering, eating right, rehabilitation, prehabilitation is just too much and perhaps contributed to the outcome there (DNF). Talk of a mystery virus is an easy out. You need something else in your life to focus on. Be relaxed, have other interests. My 2 cents.


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    #26
    heal-u
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭heal-u


    Hi there,
    maybe i m late for this post but might as well while i m here.

    Yes go for sport massage there are lots of benefits typically the ones mentioned by the other member so i m not going to ad any other, i just found interesting the discussion about ice baths and massage, first of all there are researches that back up the validity if certain claims, there is one done at the moment in North of Ireland of which i have seen the data and it looks very good, but just for you to understand ' ice baths ' are part of the recovery and rehab process not prevention of injuries while sport massage is for both, beside if you give me a choice to go in the freezing water or lying down while somebody else do the work guess which would be my choice also sport massage is not supposed to hurt all the time but if there is deep seated tension on the muscle it might.
    Believe it or not depending on the therapist it could actually be relaxing even if it is very deep.


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    #27
    cfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭cfitz


    Racing Flat wrote: »
    On this I think Sonia wrote in her book, that maybe the ice baths didn't work but as they weren't doing any harm, if there was any chance they were helping, it was worth a go. I disagree with this, because where do we draw the line? Are we going to do everything that is purported to help improve performance even though there may be no evidence?

    Spending this time doing other things in your life and not contemplating your event might be better for the mental strength I think, don't be so preoccupied, be a bit more relaxed about it all. Paula Radcliffe locking herself away with just coach and physical therapist at high altitude for months before Athens might testify to this. IMO such blinkered focus on the event, where 24hours a day her life was focused on training, recovering, eating right, rehabilitation, prehabilitation is just too much and perhaps contributed to the outcome there (DNF). Talk of a mystery virus is an easy out. You need something else in your life to focus on. Be relaxed, have other interests. My 2 cents.

    I agree with your point in this paragraph, but I don't think Radcliffe is a good example - she seems to have used this scarily intense style of preparation for a number of years now and it's been very successful for her. To blame her performance in Athens on this is really just speculation in my opinion.


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    #28
    Racing Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Racing Flat


    cfitz wrote: »
    I agree with your point in this paragraph, but I don't think Radcliffe is a good example - she seems to have used this scarily intense style of preparation for a number of years now and it's been very successful for her. To blame her performance in Athens on this is really just speculation in my opinion.

    True she's been very successful. But she'a also had a fair share of DNS, DNF and 4ths in her career. I speculate that with less intense prep she might have had more of the former and less of the latter ;).


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    #29
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,559 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Racing Flat wrote: »
    True she's been very successful. But she'a also had a fair share of DNS, DNF and 4ths in her career. I speculate that with less intense prep she might have had more of the former and less of the latter ;).

    I'd speculate with less intensity she would have had fewer DNS and DNFs but probably no success either.


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    #30
    Hard Worker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Hard Worker


    Racing Flat wrote: »
    True she's been very successful. But she'a also had a fair share of DNS, DNF and 4ths in her career. I speculate that with less intense prep she might have had more of the former and less of the latter ;).

    A couple of DNS's and one DNF in the marathon, the rest were all wins, and at world best pace. Her 2nd, 3rd and 4th placings were on the track mainly and in some shorter road races.
    From speaking to a sports scientist at Liverpool University, the ice baths can be very beneficial if done properly. You almost have to use them like a track session with a proper build up - 10 seconds at a time, in and out, and increasing time periods thereafter. Didn't they work for David Gillick?


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    #31
    hunnymonster
    Registered Users Posts: 5,365 ✭✭✭hunnymonster


    I like Paula (or the public face of Paula we know). She wins big and loses big (a gambler maybe?) but I totally admire her dedication, even if I know I could never do it myself or wouldn't want those I love doing it.

    On ice baths, the cyclist in me "feels" they do some good after a long day on the bike even if the "scientist" has found the jury out on the effectiveness so I'll probably keep them up when I can.


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