Shapeless Black Trousers

Propellerhead · 14-10-2008 9:35am #1

I was in London on Friday night and went out in Farringdon for a few drinks and a bite to eat with my brother and cousins based there. We kicked off in a fairly ordinary pub full of city workers - no investment bankers as we weren't further in towards the Bank or Tower Bridge but ordinary city folk aged between their twenties and forties.

The stunning difference between Dublin and London on a work night out was obvious immediately. Firstly, the lads were a bit smarter looking but what really stood out for me was that the women were far better dressed, looked confident and were outgoing. Women in their forties in short skirts and boots. Decent shoes on nearly everyone. Clothes that flattered and were worn confidently.

Monday morning back on the platform at my commuter station in leafy suburbia. A uniform here. Shapeless black trousers, heavy coats, nothing to indicate any confidence, sexuality or ability other than to wear a trench into the ground between home, the railway station and the office for forty years.

There is a serious point behind the clothes criticisms here, which can be made about men as well, and it's this.

I do not believe we have a fundamental confidence as a nation. Prosperity came late to this country and most of us come from a rural and frugal background, at least many of our grandparents and parents would not have ran up credit card debt as so many of us have with so little to show for it. Therefore any downturn will hit us harder and longer as a result. Do we really have to look like we belong in sackcloth and ashes when we dress aimlessly every day going into work?

Dudess · 14-10-2008 9:57am

Propellerhead wrote: »

Women in their forties in short skirts and boots.

Wouldn't happen here because of the constant catcalls of "mutton dressed as lamb", "you're too old to dress like that", "you're just trying to be sexy" etc, etc - none of which are necessarily true but I suppose when a person hears something enough, they start to believe it...

Morgase · 14-10-2008 10:07am

I won't spend big money on clothes for work. At the moment I'm not doing the commuting into Dublin, waiting on the platform thing, but when I did I was one of those in the shapeless black trousers with the sad face.

I would have the few pairs of black / pinstripe trousers and some shirts and tops for work, mostly bought in Penneys or Dunnes. I would have made an extra effort for meetings but not on normal days.

Now I work on a building site and couldn't be happier in my jeans and hoodie!

(I should have mentioned I have no interest in clothes...)

what2do · 14-10-2008 1:07pm

A lot of Dunnes clothes are acceptable, however Penneys clothes for work and cheap and look it- think it could the polyester.

Defo think as the winter comes in people just start to look more depressed and dreary:-(

Your post is making me think I should start to make more of an effort as I am one of those miserable looking poeple on the train commute although I do try to stay away from shapeless black trousers!

robtri · 14-10-2008 1:15pm

its not just the train communters, its in every office, whatever way they commute to work,
I am all in favour of being dressed nicely to work... it helps brighten everyones day up...

Dudess · 14-10-2008 1:17pm

It's really not something I'd get bothered about tbh... All I can say is, thank Christ I don't have a job that requires me having to do serious grooming - I'd prefer to spend that time in bed really.
Perhaps the reason people were dressed so smartly at that bar in London is because it was required for their jobs. I bet you'd see people as smartly dressed in a bar in one of Dublin's financial districts.
But if a person's working for, say, Kildare County Council, they wouldn't be expected to dress up, so why should they...

Celtic67 · 14-10-2008 1:20pm

Propellerhead wrote: »

I was in London on Friday night and went out in Farringdon for a few drinks and a bite to eat with my brother and cousins based there. We kicked off in a fairly ordinary pub full of city workers - no investment bankers as we weren't further in towards the Bank or Tower Bridge but ordinary city folk aged between their twenties and forties.

The stunning difference between Dublin and London on a work night out was obvious immediately. Firstly, the lads were a bit smarter looking but what really stood out for me was that the women were far better dressed, looked confident and were outgoing. Women in their forties in short skirts and boots. Decent shoes on nearly everyone. Clothes that flattered and were worn confidently.

Monday morning back on the platform at my commuter station in leafy suburbia. A uniform here. Shapeless black trousers, heavy coats, nothing to indicate any confidence, sexuality or ability other than to wear a trench into the ground between home, the railway station and the office for forty years.

There is a serious point behind the clothes criticisms here, which can be made about men as well, and it's this.

I do not believe we have a fundamental confidence as a nation. Prosperity came late to this country and most of us come from a rural and frugal background, at least many of our grandparents and parents would not have ran up credit card debt as so many of us have with so little to show for it. Therefore any downturn will hit us harder and longer as a result. Do we really have to look like we belong in sackcloth and ashes when we dress aimlessly every day going into work?

I work in an office with approx 300 people and I can honestly say that about 90% of the staff (men & women) look as if no thought goes into how they dress at all. Now I understand that people with kids etc may have different priorities etc but a bit of pride in one's appearance shouldn't be neglected. Thats my experience from my job but generally feel that when visiting other offices around Dublin that females dress a lot better than in my job.
I'm male and from my perspective, in a single week I would wear at least 4 different pairs of shoes to work and never the same pair on two consecutive days - this helps the shoes last longer also. Also in the week I would wear 4 different suits. Putting thought into what I wear is a personal choice and makes me feel more confident and comfortable with myself.

Ciaran B · 14-10-2008 1:39pm

The OP is comparing how people dress on a Friday night out with how people dress on a Monday commute. Obviously people dress up for a night on the town.

what2do · 14-10-2008 1:42pm

Ciaran B wrote: »

The OP is comparing how people dress on a Friday night out with how people dress on a Monday commute. Obviously people dress up for a night on the town.

Dunno about that a lot of the time - I'm in dublins "Financial District" and people tend to look much the same all week.

stovelid · 14-10-2008 2:41pm

No surprise is it?

London is a bigger, more diverse, more cosmopolitan city. Bigger jobs, more money and more clothes shops. A lot of people tend to dress better there, not just city types. It's a no-brainer comparing it with a city like Dublin which, for all our guff to the contrary, is a provincial city in comparison.

jellie · 14-10-2008 2:53pm

youre comparing a friday night in london to a dreary cold weekday morning in dublin.

& i dont see why its an issue anyway. sometimes people care how they look, sometimes they just throw on whatever they find. some people have money to buy well tailored clothes, some people shop in penneys.

sounds like another "ireland is crap" thread.

Silverfish · 14-10-2008 3:10pm

I get to wear snickers combats, Doc marten safety boots, and a t-shirt

Dead classy, my job.

On the plus side, I have access to a welder, drills and soldering irons.

WindSock · 14-10-2008 3:14pm

High Viz jackets ftw! I feel pink is greatly under represented in the high visabilty range. I mean, how am I to mix and match with only day-glow yellow to choose from?

Dudess · 14-10-2008 3:49pm

robtri wrote: »

its not just the train communters

LOL

Freudian slip?

robtri · 14-10-2008 3:57pm

Dudess wrote: »

LOL
Freudian slip?

maybe maybe not :rolleyes:

coffee_cake · 14-10-2008 5:29pm

Christ that's funny - I sometimes feel put to shame re: my appearance given the amount of dressing up in my building. Certainly wouldn't call it aimless dressing

Nevyn · 14-10-2008 6:35pm

London has a much better intergrated public transport system.
There is a big difference between standing at the tracks in a heated tube station for 20 mins and the rain lashed and wind swept stations we have on the dart and suburban lines while waiting for the train, also you can usually get a bus on from just outside tube stations with out a 20 min walk.
This is going to play a big factor in how a person dresses.

Also you were looking at people in a social setting after work, for all you know thier big black trousers were in their bags or in a bag under their desk back at work.

Stheno · 14-10-2008 6:49pm

WindSock wrote: »

High Viz jackets ftw! I feel pink is greatly under represented in the high visabilty range. I mean, how am I to mix and match with only day-glow yellow to choose from?

Here ya go WS

Thaedydal wrote: »

Also you were looking at people in a social setting after work, for all you know thier big black trousers were in their bags or in a bag under their desk back at work.

+1 I wear suits in work everyday and if I'm going out after work, then unless it's work related I always change out of my work clothes

14-10-2008 6:53pm

We Irish are shapeless. We don't have hips,arses or waists. Stereo typically. Most of clothes are made for the pear shaped english market.

sunnyside · 14-10-2008 8:06pm

If everybody in my workplace started to make more of an effort to look good and I looked bad by comparison then I'd make more effort. It's so much easier when everyone looks a bit drab in the same black trousers.

Lots of offices have one girl who dresses up and most of the other women usually hate her.

Nice clothes are very expensive and most of us aren't that well paid.

The Sweeper · 14-10-2008 10:34pm

I lived in London for years and I can happily agree that a noticeable amount of the London office chickies dress for the office like it's a nightclub.

There is a species of skinny, tinted, tanned and highlighted office chick in the SE of England that is best described as 'top toffee totty'. High street shopping there is like a pilgrimage, and most of the 'clone' town centres have essentially the contents of Grafton Street and more (H&M!) so when you're shopping you have a greater exposure to stylish outfits.

However they do take a good bit of time over their appearance - the hair and nails are done every three weeks, the tanning lotions are out more often than that, the dry cleaners is as regular a dropping off point as the supermarket and they truly do shoe shop like Imelda Marcos.

It is worth pointing out that a lot of those women wear clothes with a totally different kind of confidence - if you've ever gone into a shop and picked up something and thought 'I couldn't wear that', think again. They can, they do, every day, to work.

Plus remember a London summer is considerably better than a Dublin summer. It's easily 5-10 degrees hotter and there's less rain. Recruitment agencies are the best places to see the styles - they're full of top toffee totty, strutting about in high heels, tailored trousers or thigh-slit skirts, a range of halter necked or sleeveless tops in bold prints and luxurious materials and they're all accessorised up to the nines.

I remember being in an agency one day and seeing two girls - neither were stunning, but both were admittedly very slim - size 10s. One was in an all-in-one black catsuit with a halter neck top, she had a massive diamante belt slung around her hips and her high heel sandals had diamante flowers on them to match the belt. The other was in tailored cream slacks with a big print silk blouse on and she'd accessorised it with a neckerchief, cork wedge shoes and a belt with cork wedge bits on it around which she'd threaded similar coloured ribbon to the colours in the neckerchief.

Yeah, so London office chicks are more stylish.

...but could you be bothered?

simu · 15-10-2008 12:32am

Interesting. I notice that groups of 20-30 something English female tourists that visit Cork seem to be dressed a lot better than their Irish counterparts, on average. It's as if they take all the stuff in Grazia etc more seriously and are not afraid to try the more daring trends - the shoes, the accessories, the lot. But then, they probably look rather boring back home in England if that's the norm there! (I've spent about 4 days in England all my life so I couldn't comment on the place but those are my impressions from seeing the tourists!)

Blush_01 · 15-10-2008 1:01am

I walk to work. I usually wear a comfortable pair of mens DM shoes, because they're good quality and they fit excellently. I wear cute flats at the weekend in mad colours which are not appropriate for my workplace. The dress code in the office is smart casual. I dress in comfortable clothes for walking to work, and comfortable shoes for walking to work, and I don't feel the need to apologise for not giving that much of a toss about how I look. I wear makeup to work each day. I never do that in my personal life. I figure that's effort enough. In a different environment things might be different, but when in Rome etc.

OP, what does it matter how someone dresses for work to you, unless you're basing your judgement on the role you're designating for them on said appearance? If you're not placing me in a work situation, why do you care how my ilk clothe themselves? I don't mind how you dress.

Curvy Vixen · 15-10-2008 8:10am

I kind of agree with the OP on this one actually. I'm originally from the UK and spent time there in my 20's working in an office environment and would say that in general the clothes are just more chic or something. They aren't necessarily more expensive just different.

I think that one of the problems with here is that when we think 'business' or 'smart casual' as office wear, we think black, brown or grey. If you think about Lucinda (?) in The (UK) Apprentice this year, she was like an explosion in a paint factory but she always looked well groomed and smart. And I wonder how many of us took her seriously (until she took the lead in week 3 or 4) from her appearance? Maybe that's a big factor too....

Sorry, this is turning into a soapbox story but I also think that for women anyway, they have had the phrase 'black is slimming' drilled into their brains for their whole lives! When I look at my wardrobe since I lost weight it looks 'normal' now and full of colour. When I was much bigger it was black, black and more black...maybe how women feel about themselves some days also dictates their unofficial uniform of black shapeless trousers..

Too much thinking LOL!!!!

DublinWriter · 15-10-2008 8:21am

Propellerhead wrote: »

I was in London on Friday night and went out in Farringdon for a few drinks and a bite to eat with my brother and cousins based there...
Monday morning back on the platform at my commuter station in leafy suburbia.

You're not comparing like with like, are you?

I'm sure some of the party-people you saw out in London on Friday night looked pretty depressed at the Tube station Monday morning.

barbiegirl · 15-10-2008 11:02am

I work in sales so I have to dress well. I like to add colour and to look individual as well as business like. It's not about money, cause I also hate spending lots for work clothes. I feel more confident dressed well, more confidence equals better sales presentations, equals more sales, equals more money to spend. :-)

Maple · 15-10-2008 3:38pm

I make an effort going to work, smart well fitting clothes and makeup as well. (well makeup most mornings) Its a mental thing with me, I put on my work persona in the morning. Its like going into battle, i'm dressed and prepared mentally.

Reading over that it probably makes sweet f.a. sense but it does to me.

Oh and work clothes don't have to cost a bomb either. H&M do great snazzy bits in a great range of sizes. I found with Penneys stuff that after 1 or 2 washes it'd fall to bits and i'd have to buy again.

Tawny · 15-10-2008 6:00pm

I always see lots of well dressed women of all ages about town on a workday.

At one of my previous jobs I always wore jeans and teeshirt until a new girl started who was always very well turned out. I did make an effort after that.

I remember at uni a friend of mine always dressed really nicely too. I told her one day that she looked really well and she said it was because she got depressed a lot, and that dressing up made her feel better. If it works for her, grand, but she also said she got up at 6am to complete her 'toilette' in time!

Fletch123 · 15-10-2008 6:18pm

There's many reasons why people (Irish English whatever) don't make an effort with their clothing for work, ranging from the expense (why bother spending money on clothes for sitting at a desk in) to happiness in your job (why bother getting dressed up for a job you hate).

I started off dressing well for my last job, but I found that I got disapproving looks and smirks when I wore 'different clothes' such as a black dress with purple tights. As I became less happy in the job my fashion became more subdued.

I think the level of happiness in you have in your job affects your appearance as opposed to confidence.

Propellerhead · 15-10-2008 10:04pm

Fletch123 wrote: »

There's many reasons why people (Irish English whatever) don't make an effort with their clothing for work, ranging from the expense (why bother spending money on clothes for sitting at a desk in) to happiness in your job (why bother getting dressed up for a job you hate).

I started off dressing well for my last job, but I found that I got disapproving looks and smirks when I wore 'different clothes' such as a black dress with purple tights. As I became less happy in the job my fashion became more subdued.

I think the level of happiness in you have in your job affects your appearance as opposed to confidence.

On the money there Fletch123.

Madame Razz · 15-10-2008 10:15pm

I'm always well turned out for work...i have to be...Its expected. And I do think it creates a good impression with a client...ever before you open your mouth. Also, I find that looking well always makes me more memorable to the client....which is useful in these competitive times!

I do spend a lot of money on work clothes; too much in fact, but in the long run, its better, as the suits look better and last longer, plus i'm tall, so the expensive stuff is genrally a better fit for me.

I will agree that in London the office ladies look exceptionally stylish, but i really don't think this holds true for the rest of the UK.

Personally, for me, my work appearance puts me 'in the zone'.....i don't think I would do my job as well if I didn't make the effort with my appearance...sounds daft I know, but it works for me!!!

Shapeless Black Trousers

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