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Ireland v Scotland 6N 5pm

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭The1337_Stephen


    Tommie Bowe, Tommie Bowe, Tommie Bowe!!!

    34-13


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    MOTM Geordo, he'll be starting against the sheep worriers...
    Another for Bowe! 34-13


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    Well done Geordan MOTM and another try for Bowe !!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    O'Gara would be my MOTM.

    Overall it looks like EOS has softened his position on subs and also on safe positions..selection for Wales will be very interesting. Who will play at 2? 15? Second row?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    How could anyone consider putting Murphy ahead of Dempsey for the game in two weeks?? Anyone would have looked good going forward against that rubbish Scottish side, and we saw what a liability Murphy can be last time out comapred to the rock-solid Dempsey. I counted 6 knock ons from Murphy today ffs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭Santa Claus


    athtrasna wrote: »
    WTF - Murphy MOTM?? What a difference 2 weeks makes!

    More like what a difference playing him in his natural position makes :D

    The guy is one of the top 3 full backs in the premiership and possibly Europe and yet EOS keeps picking the swerve. Getting man of the match after being dropped from the squad is a nice 2 fingers to eddie from Geordan ! !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    More like what a difference playing him in his natural position makes :D

    The guy is one of the top 3 full backs in the premiership and possibly Europe and yet EOS keeps picking the swerve. Getting man of the match after being dropped from the squad is a nice 2 fingers to eddie from Geordan ! !

    What has Dempsey ever done to deserve dropping? He's a defensive rock, and a quality finished as well as that. Its all well and good putting Geordan in against rubbish like Scotland but against France, England and Wales his six knock ons are going to be costly, and by attacking the way he does he will be be a defensive liability.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    What has Dempsey ever done to deserve dropping? He's a defensive rock, and a quality finished as well as that. Its all well and good putting Geordan in against rubbish like Scotland but against France, England and Wales his six knock ons are going to be costly, and by attacking the way he does he will be be a defensive liability.

    Have you ever seen Dempsey set up a try like Bowes one. Dempsey can only dream of things like that. Murphys tactical kicking was spot on so was his attack and distribution.


    We are weighing Murphys contribution to a attacking side to Dempseys contribution to a conservative side.

    If Dempsey had played this match he'd done sweet f**k all


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    athtrasna wrote: »
    So while most of us damn EOS if he doesn't play the subs, you damn him if he does. It's a 22 man game these days, well 21 man anyway. Any manager is foolish to only play 15 or 16 when he has fresh legs on the bench!

    Game lost all momentum and coherency with that raft of substitutions, would like to have seen the new combinations finish out the game. Absolutely crucial they get in each others heads, and it was all so lovely to watch from a purely selfish viewpoint..

    Well aware rugby is a 22 man game, I'm always bleedin' banging on about it! But it should be tactical and worthwhile, not just emptying the bench for the sake of it, giving away cheap caps....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    Murphy is a full back!! lets see how Horan plays on the wing ! you can't play out of your position its just stupid and look Murphy got MOTM!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭RugBeir


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    What has Dempsey ever done to deserve dropping? He's a defensive rock, and a quality finished as well as that. Its all well and good putting Geordan in against rubbish like Scotland but against France, England and Wales his six knock ons are going to be costly, and by attacking the way he does he will be be a defensive liability.

    It all depends - if your happy with mediocre then Dempsey is your man. And without doubt EOS is your manager. A guy who wasnt good enough to make the panel is MOTM! Q.E.D.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 359 ✭✭vote4pedro


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Have you ever seen Dempsey set up a try like Bowes one. Dempsey can only dream of things like that. Murphys tactical kicking was spot on so was his attack and distribution.


    We are weighing Murphys contribution to a attacking side to Dempseys contribution to a conservative side.

    If Dempsey had played this match he'd done sweet f**k all

    Oh please, all this about how Demspey offers nothing going forward is rubbish, he's improved that side of his game so much in years. Dempsey's a better kicker, a better finisher, and a different world defensively. With a back line that also contains players with the attacking flair that we have, we're much better off taking Dempsey.
    Murphy is a full back!! lets see how Horan plays on the wing ! you can't play out of your position its just stupid and look Murphy got MOTM!
    Hardly a fair comparison, though if you asked Trimble, Dempsey, or Horgan to play out on the wing you'd still expect them to be able to make a bloody tackle and not play like a schoolboy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    vote4pedro wrote: »
    Its all well and good putting Geordan in against rubbish like Scotland but against France, England and Wales his six knock ons are going to be costly, and by attacking the way he does he will be be a defensive liability.
    Did you actually see the game?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    I'm getting really annoyed with Marcus Horan. Fair enough he caught the simple cross field from O'Gara but why is he always on the wing. I know he's quick but he's a prop and being at the other side of the pitch to the rucks leaves Ireland short in the tight. We can't afford it against better sides. He's always at it with Munster too and often wastes chances, would he just give up on trying to be a winger already;)

    That settles the argument, GM is a good full back and should compete with Demphsy for the 15 spot not at the wing spot. Ireland took the tries well, they're playing with a little less fear now. In saying that we need to sort the lineout(Jackman was bad but we lost a couple with Best on so the jumpers are at fault too) if we want to beat Wales. And another thing, how has Ireland's scrum improved so much since the WC and before:confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭RugBeir


    themont85 wrote: »

    In saying that we need to sort the lineout(Jackman was bad but we lost a couple with Best on so the jumpers are at fault too) if we want to beat Wales. And another thing, how has Ireland's scrum improved so much since the WC and before:confused:

    I agree with you about the jumpers. I think Mick O Driscoll is the best jumper we have and I would have him in ahead of either of the other two. O Connell has had a bad 12 months. Also thought Trimble played extremely well today in centre, his best position. A better proposition than Darcy IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭cm2000


    i wish rte had ryle, george is OK for football but is disasterous for rugby


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    RugBeir wrote: »
    I agree with you about the jumpers. I think Mick O Driscoll is the best jumper we have and I would have him in ahead of either of the other two. O Connell has had a bad 12 months. Also thought Trimble played extremely well today in centre, his best position. A better proposition than Darcy IMO.

    Trimble played better then BOD who had a extremely quiet match apart from his lovely pass to Kearney.

    Still would still love to see that setup again in 2 weeks with BOD at 12 Trimble at 13 and Best at 2


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,931 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Players ratings from BBC

    IRELAND RATINGS by James Standley

    Geordan Murphy – The Leicester full-back produced his club form for his country as he turned in a dazzling display. He showed classy touches with both boot and hands; took some great catches from high balls, produced one glorious break and was always available in support. No doubt Eddie O’Sullivan will now drop him. 9 :D

    Tommy Bowe – The Ulster winger was quiet compared to some of the other Irish backs in the first half but was more prominent after the break. He took his first try superbly and was delighted to have a second handed to him on a plate right at the death. 7

    Brian O'Driscoll – The captain produced a superb break and pass for the second try and was always keen for work in defence, but there is surely more to come from the Ireland talisman. 6

    Andrew Trimble – He began the match with a couple of good hits to halt Scotland attacks and grew as an attacking force the longer the game went on, producing a couple of searing breaks as Ireland opened up. 8

    Robert Kearney – The Leinster player is another of Ireland’s youngsters who looks assured of a long future in the green shirt. He swept well at the back from the wing, kicked assuredly and took his try with some style. 8

    Ronan O'Gara – A cracking display from the Munsterman. He showed good vision to spark the move which led to the second try, produced a fine kick for the third try and then followed up with a brilliant reverse flick for the fourth. Marshalled his troops superbly, kicked well off the deck and generally ran the show. 8

    Eoin Reddan – The Wasps number nine was his usual lively self around the base and his ability to mix up his game helped Ireland constantly keep the Scots on the move. 7

    Marcus Horan – Always one of the livelier front-row presences in the loose, he scored a fine try from O’Gara’s pin-point cross-kick and held his own in the scrum. 7

    Bernard Jackman – When you are the hooker your primary role is to hit your jumpers at the line-out and he struggled. He saw an early line-out throw picked off, was not straight after 32 minutes and was picked off again before the break, negating his good work in the loose. 5

    John Hayes – Led a major defensive scrum drive late in first half and was increasingly on top in the scrums as the game wore on. And he still had enough to get around the park and put in his share of tackles. 7

    Donncha O’Callaghan – Was part of a shaky Ireland line-out but that looked more down to Jackman’s shaky throwing than any fault on the part of O’Callaghan, who was prominent in the trenches. 7

    Mick O’Driscoll – Did his best to fill the shoes of Paul O’Connell, who came on to replace him late in the second half. Tried his heart out but was not a dominant figure. 6

    Denis Leamy – The battle between the back rows was always going to be close and Leamy was just outshone by opposite number Alasdair Strokosch. 6

    David Wallace – Pacy and always eager for work, he strolled over for a well-worked try in the first half and produced a couple of typically rapid breaks as the hosts took control after the interval. 7

    Jamie Heaslip – Played his part in Wallace’s try with a neat inside pass and always a presence for Ireland in both attack and defence. 7


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭jackbhoy


    Stev_o wrote: »
    If Dempsey had played this match he'd done sweet f**k all

    :rolleyes: Not even worth commenting on that...


    Good enough performance against an incredibly poor Scottish team. New lads Heaslip, Kearney and Bowe were excellent, Murphy was obviuosly very good too and that pass from ROG was one of the sweetest I've seen in while. A similar performance against Wales now please!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Murphys catches from Garry Owens are excellent, he really should start against wales

    O'Driscoll off, Heaslip off, Reddan off, Stringer on, Easterby on, Horgan on
    Murphy's garryown catches were only about 50/50. He knocked on at least 2.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,931 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Sangre wrote: »
    Murphy's garryown catches were only about 50/50. He knocked on at least 2.

    Yes but at least he was there to chase up the high ball - if Girv was playing would ROG have the option of the high ball?

    I said on the other thread yesterday that I hoped Murphy would have had a MOTM type of good game today and sure enough he was MOTM, well done Geordan.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If Girv had been playing I imagine Scotland would have launched fewer balls in the air to him. Murphy did drop several high balls.

    Murphy played very well and deserves another chance next week. But Scotland are completely inept in attack and so Murphy wasn't tested defensively. He was also put under very little pressure. I'm aware the guy is a skillful player, but he is also defensively frail and prone to ridiculous errors. He has always done very well against poor teams and looks classy, but can cost Ireland an awful lot of points against better teams. But like I said, he's earned another shot next week. If he can handle Wales' backline then he deserves to keep the shirt for now.

    The whole Murphy/Dempsey thing is probably reasonably academic anyway, as I imagine Kearney will be taking the position sooner rather than later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭dirtybarry


    lads geordan murphy is a full back plain and simple..dosen't matter that the opposition was scotland..the guy showed real class going forward and was as brave as ever contesting the high ball.we can only go on what we saw today..he played in his best position and played really well,he deserves another shot against the welsh at full back.it is like george hook said before the game..no other player in the o sullivan era has been messed about more than geordan.if girvan dempsey was asked to play out of position for ireland on the wing we would probadly be giving him stick all the time!!!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    dirtybarry wrote: »
    lads geordan murphy is a full back plain and simple..dosen't matter that the opposition was scotland..the guy showed real class going forward and was as brave as ever contesting the high ball.

    Brave =/= useful. He knocked a couple on and seemed to have to come from awfully deep for them. They were difficult though and he did reasonably well.
    no other player in the o sullivan era has been messed about more than geordan.if girvan dempsey was asked to play out of position for ireland on the wing we would probadly be giving him stick all the time!!!

    This bit is nonsense. Murphy has been given plenty of chances and consistent run at full back, but an awful lot of people seem to have selective amnesia about this. Hell, the guy managed to keep his place (at full back) after gifting France 3 tries back in 2006.
    As I heard someone else say, his "yo-yoing" into the team over the last year could equally be seen as him being given a hell of a lot of second/third/.../final chances. Ultimately though, he's only come in as injury cover over the last year and that's a position he put himself into with poor and inconsistent performances.

    Yes, he did well against Scotland. He's regularly done well against poorer teams that don't target him. Yes, he deserves a game against Wales and if he plays well again, I'll be willing to admit he could be the better option. However, the fact remains that he's also had plenty of games where he's thrown ridiculous passes, got consistently turned over and been a complete liability in defence. I would question many, many things EOS has done, but his treatment of Murphy is not one of them. I probably would have dropped him completely from the 22 as opposed to ever putting him on the wing, but that's about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 484 ✭✭Shan75


    Just because Philip Matthews gave Murphy MOTM does not mean he was.He did a few good things but he knocked on far more high balls than he caught.He was missing whenever there was defending to be done and out of position regularly as can clearly be seen by the amount of times the far superior Kearney was gobbling up and clearing ball in the full back position(this was not due to Murphy's rare attacking forays).He caught the ball very well once(which is what any full back should be able to do most of the time) which was the start of the move for Kearney's try but it was O'Gara and O'Driscoll with help from the scandalously bad Scottish defence which made the try and he made one other decent break.I doubt he made a telling tackle all day.When you take into account the opposition he performed on a par with what he does at Leicester against weaker club defences and he is really not up to it against any decent international side which he has proven time after time.I believe in the backs alone O'Gara,Trimble and Kearney were better than him.I would also mention that Tommy Bowe played quite well despite hardly getting the ball.I'd say he received ball in an attacking position less than five times and scored two tries but he was eager for defensive work all match long.
    I expressed an opinion before the start of the Six Nations that Jackman isn't international standard and he has done nothing in two games to alter that view.Even apart from his brutal throwing the rest of his game was nothing to write home about.He made one or two tackles but most of the time he was just hanging around the side of rucks.We already have Marcus Horan doing this but have no replacement for him.Rory Best and Flannery should be the hookers in the 22 with Jackman only coming in if one of those cannot play(like today) but should be on the bench.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,852 ✭✭✭Hugh_C


    Still trying to figure out why we were so sh1te for the first twenty minutes. Jackman? Would we be better starting with Best? And as far as the match as a spectacle is concerned, all the subs coming on ruined it for me, completely spoiled the flow of the game for the last 10 minutes or so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭Crash


    who's making our lineout calls these days? Jackman may not have been throwing the best, but jesus, there's a lot more to be answered for in that lineout than the thrower. The scots should never have been up ahead of our lads.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Think I read that O'Driscoll was, before that Mal presumably. The entire line-out is a bloody mess


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    Murphy did knock a few on but the balls he was going for werent easy. He committed to eerything he did tonight. He played good.

    The lineout was a mess, Jackman does not deserve to be in there for the next game. Flannery has a much better throw and is good on the loose.

    Th defence tonight was solid. They kept the line very well. Something i have noticed that has improved


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Think I read that O'Driscoll was, before that Mal presumably. The entire line-out is a bloody mess

    Even more reason why the captain has to be in the front 10!! Ideally in the 8 but at the moment, O'Gara is much more the leader than BOD and he's close enough to the lineout and scrum to know what's going on.

    I do not think Murphy was a good full back today. He was a good winger today (amazing compared to Paris) but defensively he was caught out of position too often and his knock ons were too plentiful. BUT even as a non Murphy fan I would rather see the backs unchanged for Wales, today we saw flair in the backs that has not been seen so far in the championship til now. The backs lining out today showed strong defense and a little magic in attack.

    As for changes to the XV for Wales, only switch I would make is Best or Flannery in for Jackman (with Jackman dropped from the 22). O'Connell and Shaggy still not match fit for full international game IMO. Would love to see Stringer back in for Reddan but we're more likely to have snow for the game than see that! MOD and DOC are a solid 2nd row partnership when the thrower in form.


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