Limerick Transport

Hard to believe such a thing exists as a 'Limerick Roads Policing Unit' when you see the absolute state of William Street and others every day.

Wise Old Elf wrote: »

I agree with the change on SCRd but they really could do with reducing some of the on street parking on St Gerard St as well, there's going to be a bit more traffic on it turning right at Bobby's after this is implemented and even now if there's any kind of build up, it's mayhem.

St Gerard Street should be one way as well. Parking there is a disgrace.

Wolfe tone and St Josephs street should also be one way with Speed bumps added. The speed of which cars fly up and down Wolfe tone is crazy. Im amazed nobody has been killed or injured.

Ember Hollow Somewhere wrote: »

Good to see that the section of South Circular Road has become solely one-way, was a pain beforehand. [/URL]

Should have been done years ago

zulutango wrote: »

Since 2013 the Council are legally required to give priority to bikes and pedestrians on streets below 60kph. Putting in car-centric traffic systems, such as one-ways, is in breach of that.

They have also improved the footpath along the street, and i would argue that one way streets are safer for pedestrians as in theory they only need to worry about traffic coming from one direction when crossing.

source wrote: »

They have also improved the footpath along the street, and i would argue that one way streets are safer for pedestrians as in theory they only need to worry about traffic coming from one direction when crossing.

There's no huge impact of the changes in the SCR but they're a step in the wrong direction. Limerick Council is in the dark ages when it comes to the design of streets. Well, the dark ages is a bit of an exaggeration. They're about 30 years behind. They see their ultimate responsibility as designing them so that traffic can move more freely because they see this as enabling more people to move through the city and into and out of it more easily. For many people (such as the folks in the Council), that is logically a good thing, but it's actually an approach that is fundamentally flawed and it even flies in the face of even the Irish design standards. What they're effectively doing is making it easier and more appealing to live a car-dependent life in the suburbs and beyond and harder and less appealing to live in the city. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that's not good for Limerick in the long term, and actually many of the difficulties Limerick and other Irish cities have at the moment are linked to about five decades of applying this flawed strategy. It's why there was a fundamental overhaul of the design standards in 2013 and these say that local authorities should design streets for the needs of pedestrians and cyclists first and foremost. In Limerick Council they clearly didn't get the memo, or are ignoring it, because what they're doing on SCR is in breach of those standards.

zulutango wrote: »

There's no huge impact of the changes in the SCR but they're a step in the wrong direction. Limerick Council is in the dark ages when it comes to the design of streets. Well, the dark ages is a bit of an exaggeration. They're about 30 years behind. They see their ultimate responsibility as designing them so that traffic can move more freely because they see this as enabling more people to move through the city and into and out of it more easily. For many people (such as the folks in the Council), that is logically a good thing, but it's actually an approach that is fundamentally flawed and it even flies in the face of even the Irish design standards. What they're effectively doing is making it easier and more appealing to live a car-dependent life in the suburbs and beyond and harder and less appealing to live in the city. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that's not good for Limerick in the long term, and actually many of the difficulties Limerick and other Irish cities have at the moment are linked to about five decades of applying this flawed strategy. It's why there was a fundamental overhaul of the design standards in 2013 and these say that local authorities should design streets for the needs of pedestrians and cyclists first and foremost. In Limerick Council they clearly didn't get the memo, or are ignoring it, because what they're doing on SCR is in breach of those standards.

Zulu, your pro pedestrian and public transport stance is well documented, and to a certain extent I agree with you that we as a country and as a city are heavily car dependent. This, in my opinion is not due to the road design, it is due to lack of basic provisions for other modes of transport, and services.

We have a very small, poorly serviced and overpriced bus service, it costs more for me to take the bus into town for 2 hours than it would to drive and park in the city centre, that shouldn’t be the case. Bus Eireann and indeed Irish Rail have a ridiculous policy of punishing their current passengers for low user numbers by raising prices, rather than lowering prices to draw people to the service. People are also often left stranded as they cannot rely on the bus to turn up as scheduled, so can’t rely on them for appointments or meetings, making the care the better option.

I personally walk to work every day, thankfully I am able to as I live close enough to where I work, I am also lucky to not be in the position of having to drop my kids to crèche or preschool every morning. My next door neighbour works 2 blocks from my office but drives to work every day as the crèche they got their child into is in Mungret (closer ones were full so it’s not by choice). It is physically impossible for him to get his child to crèche and back to work before 9 without driving. There are a lot more people in his shoes than mine.

School enrolment policies which give preference to whether water was splashed on your head as baby rather than where you are living is another issue which causes larger traffic volumes, as is the policy of past pupils getting places. If kids could get into their local school rather than having to travel, then there would be much less car dependence. Why don’t they get the bus you will surely say … see previous point.

Location of employment and industry is another reason for car dependency. We are all aware from multiple threads in this very forum that there is limited employment opportunity in the city, which forces people to work in areas where public transport either does not go, or using public transport would mean a considerably longer journey with changes and greater cost. Try to get from Caherdavin to Raheen Industrial Estate using just public transport, you’re talking about a journey of about 45 minutes to an hour (if the bus turns up), 2 busses and 2 bus fares. It’s just not feasible.

There are a lot of things that the government and the council can do to help this, but making the roads less car friendly is not one of them, or at least should not be the first step in fixing the problem. There is a lot which need to be done first to reduce car dependency, before you make it next to impossible to actually drive around the city.

I would be of the opinion that the city centre is in fact very pedestrian friendly. Most streets are one way, which makes crossing the unsignalled junctions easier, unsignalled junctions are also rare in the city centre, they do appear more frequently the further out you go though. One way also means you have to only contend with traffic coming from a single direction, and every block in the centre proper has pedestrian lights. Very few people are knocked down in the city centre, and those that are tend to be crossing away from the designated crossing points. The footpaths are also wide and for the most part have good surfaces.

I’m sure you’ll be of the opinion that there should be more pedestrian crossings rather than light controlled junctions in the city centre, however seeing how people in this city ignore the ones that are there currently in favour of crossing halfway along a block I honestly don’t see the benefit bar frustrating drivers and the flow of traffic.

source wrote: »

There are a lot of things that the government and the council can do to help this, but making the roads less car friendly is not one of them, or at least should not be the first step in fixing the problem. There is a lot which need to be done first to reduce car dependency, before you make it next to impossible to actually drive around the city.

I won't quote your entire post but I would disagree with your point that the government should fix other issues before tackling the problem of motor traffic. Yes, the problem of urban sprawl and a lifeless city centre won't be cured alone by making streets less car friendly but by continuing to prioritise motor traffic over everyone else, we are making our streets and city a less attractive place to spend time in. If the city is not an attractive place to be, people won't want to live there. If people don't live there, businesses can't survive and public services such as schools and hospitals will be built elsewhere (or in the case of Mungret, where the people haven't moved to yet but LCCC will get around to resolving that in jig time no doubt). We build everywhere because we can drive everywhere. We drive everywhere because we can build everywhere. We simply cannot continue to do this. Reducing private car volume and priority in the city won't make Limerick great in the morning but it would be a start. How can we ever hope to improve the quality of our public transport if we are unwilling to take any road space away from cars and give it to buses, or any other sustainable mode of transport? We can't expect to be handed an attractive & vibrant city serviced by a highly efficient public transport system before we decide to finally give up on our cars. The authorities also need to address their dysfunctional approach to planning but all these things need to happen in parallel. One thing that could be done in the morning is cutting back on the amount of on-street parking. People could still move as they do today but if we started to remove all the private property being stored on public road space, we could start to free up some space for other modes of transport which should help make them a more attractive proposition to use than a car for some people.

zulutango wrote: »

That is very succinctly put.

More roads creates more low density development which creates more car dependency which creates more roads, which creates more low density development, which creates more car dependency .... ad nauseum.

It's a toxic circle and the way to break it is to stop the car-centric development.

Ah but my point isn't to create more roads, my point is that we should avoid destroying the roads we have either through removal, pedestrianisation or traffic calming whole there is no viable alternative in place.

LeoD wrote: »

I won't quote your entire post but I would disagree with your point that the government should fix other issues before tackling the problem of motor traffic. Yes, the problem of urban sprawl and a lifeless city centre won't be cured alone by making streets less car friendly but by continuing to prioritise motor traffic over everyone else, we are making our streets and city a less attractive place to spend time in. If the city is not an attractive place to be, people won't want to live there. If people don't live there, businesses can't survive and public services such as schools and hospitals will be built elsewhere (or in the case of Mungret, where the people haven't moved to yet but LCCC will get around to resolving that in jig time no doubt). We build everywhere because we can drive everywhere. We drive everywhere because we can build everywhere. We simply cannot continue to do this. Reducing private car volume and priority in the city won't make Limerick great in the morning but it would be a start. How can we ever hope to improve the quality of our public transport if we are unwilling to take any road space away from cars and give it to buses, or any other sustainable mode of transport? We can't expect to be handed an attractive & vibrant city serviced by a highly efficient public transport system before we decide to finally give up on our cars. The authorities also need to address their dysfunctional approach to planning but all these things need to happen in parallel. One thing that could be done in the morning is cutting back on the amount of on-street parking. People could still move as they do today but if we started to remove all the private property being stored on public road space, we could start to free up some space for other modes of transport which should help make them a more attractive proposition to use than a car for some people.

Then u might end up with something again like the disaster that is the ballinacurra bus lane. Where the road is too narrow for 3 lanes & if u meet a cyclist outbound & the road is busy inbound u are screwed cause u cannot pass him safely.Never mind when too large vehicles pass each other.

marno21 wrote: »

There is no viable route from Dooradoyle to Corbally without driving through the city centre. That's a major issue if we are still using the city centre as a thoroughfare. It's the same on the northside of Cork and in Galway. If there is no relief/orbital/distributor route it's difficult to remove cars.

ya you are right the only other option is up by roxboro garda station & down by firestation & by the bridge by absolute hotel.Which is longer & waste of time during rush hour.

zulutango wrote: »

Corbally - Clare Street - Pennywell - etc

Corbally - Clare Street - Childers Road - etc

Corbally - Thomondgate - etc

You will get backlogs but that doesn't mean they're not viable routes.

Are you joking? They're a short term option if a disaster struck on O'Connell St or we have a St Patrick's Day parade or Granny Festival but they're not viable options for everyday use.

Basically Limerick was built on a river with 4 main roads leading into/out of the city. Until the city has a full circular route around it then we'll have traffic using the four routes from the junction at Debenhams.