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Missing man at the Cliffs of Moher.

septictank

I didn't hear about this until this morning, no idea who it is, hopefully will show up ok.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cliff-search-continues-for-highprofile-professional-feared-to-have-fallen-into-sea-34717475.html

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claregal1

PistolsAtDawn wrote: »

Assuming for arguments sake a rigid bodied human weighing 100kgs jumps off the highest point of the cliffs of moher how long does it take until said individual hits the water?

What kills them, the impact?

Probably about 5 seconds- which would take me the length of time to consider whether or not to push you whilst you were correcting me on my spelling mistakes

PistolsAtDawn

claregal1 wrote: »

Apologies for the spelling mistakes

Apology accepted just try and be more careful the next time.

PistolsAtDawn

Assuming for arguments sake a rigid bodied human weighing 100kgs jumps off the highest point of the cliffs of moher how long does it take until said individual hits the water?

What kills them, the impact?

claregal1

How in God's name ( not calling his name in vain by the way ) did this post go from Concern for a man missing at the cliffs - to total speculation as to who , whom and might be to PM his name -to gossip to sucide . One of the reasons I deactivated my FB account was because everyone and everyone thought they knew it all !
Jaysus like - who cares about the in's and out's - a family are mourning a loved one tonight and the speculation here leaves an awful lot to be desired ... sad .
Apologies for the spelling mistakes - have been following this post on and off all day and just back from a work do - AND PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING ON ABOUT IT ...

Cathy.C

I don't agree with any family not letting cause of death be known but it's really nobody's business but the family's at this stage.

Augme

unseenfootage wrote: »

Naming individuals could act as a deterrent for people who have suicidal tendencies.
I think it is important for society to be fully aware of the harm and grief that suicides cause to their friends, families and communities.

Yea because currently people are completely oblivious to that. :rolleyes:

Arsemageddon

unseenfootage wrote: »

Naming individuals could act as a deterrent for people who have suicidal tendencies.
I think it is important for society to be fully aware of the harm and grief that suicides cause to their friends, families and communities.

The poster I was responding to was talking about drink/drug driving. However, I think the idea of 'naming and shaming' suicides is just awful - it is a private matter. I think pretty much everyone knows about the grief caused by bereavement.

I have no problem with accurate statistics being kept.

unseenfootage

Arsemageddon wrote: »

I'm pretty sure at this stage that everyone knows about the dangers of drink and drug driving. Statistics for these are available from the RSA.

I fail to see how naming individuals and potentially compounding a family's grief has any social utility.

Naming individuals could act as a deterrent for people who have suicidal tendencies.
I think it is important for society to be fully aware of the harm and grief that suicides cause to their friends, families and communities.

Pretzill

Whatever this thread started out as and morphed into along the way there are loved ones out there tonight in desperate circumstances because of a death - that's all. It's traumatic for the family and friends and the journey is over for the person.

There are parts of this thread though that should be discussed, whether related to the OP or not. Mental health issues still have a stigma attached and they shouldn't. Even the term mental health annoys me - because it is time we just called it ill health - the physical body is so linked to the mental traumas we can experience. Some of these things we don't understand, they frighten us, but think for a second how frightening it is for the person going through this. How scared are they? How scared do you need to be to never be scared again?

Our health system in regards to mental health issues needs a complete overhaul.

I don't worry about how people report or don't report the death of a loved one - why should I? Dealing with their loss is enough for them.

Put it this way how many people attending a funeral ask the chief mourners what the deceased died of, or how did they die?

Arsemageddon

Stephen Hero wrote: »

Might make people think twice about doing the same.

I'm pretty sure at this stage that everyone knows about the dangers of drink and drug driving. Statistics for these are available from the RSA.

I fail to see how naming individuals and potentially compounding a family's grief has any social utility.

languagenerd

Going back to the case at hand, Gardai probably didn't need to name the man to get the info they needed. He went missing in a very precise location, so to say "a well-known man in 60s" is probably sufficient for anyone who saw him there to come forward. It's not like he was last seen in "Dublin city centre", or just "somewhere in Munster", where dozens of sixty-odd-year-old well-known men might have been spotted over the last week. If you saw a "famous" older man at the cliffs, then you'd realise immediately from the description that you had info. And that's the only point of the appeals/missing persons notices.

I do think putting it out that way opens a can of worms in terms of speculation and potential for the wrong person being named, but at the end of the day, the family and the guards had a choice to make. Very sad situation.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Stephen Hero wrote: »

Might make people think twice about doing the same.

Are talking about suicide or driving under the influence?

Stephen Hero

Arsemageddon wrote: »

What do you think this would achieve?

Might make people think twice about doing the same.

Arsemageddon

Stephen Hero wrote: »

Totally agree. In some cases they'll know what the impact speed was and the likely party to blame. This should also be made public along with any alcohol or drug findings.

What do you think this would achieve?

freshpopcorn

Stephen Hero wrote: »

They should be outed as suicides.

It can be hard to prove unless there's a not left lying in the car!

Lisha

Stephen Hero wrote: »

They should be outed as suicides.

Who is to this say that they didn't just fall asleep or a lapse in concentration.

It can't be proved without doubt so death by misadventure is the most reasonable judgement.

Stephen Hero

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How can you prove it without a note or something, you can only assume it's a tragic accident.

The Guards should be up front though and say the reasons behind road deaths and also name the cars involved.

Totally agree. In some cases they'll know what the impact speed was and the likely party to blame. This should also be made public along with any alcohol or drug findings.

drunkmonkey

Stephen Hero wrote: »

They should be outed as suicides.

How can you prove it without a note or something, you can only assume it's a tragic accident.

The Guards should be up front though and say the reasons behind road deaths and also name the cars involved.

Wanderer78

Stephen Hero wrote: »

They should be outed as suicides.

true but im sure investigations are not exactly straightforward in these situations

Stephen Hero

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive been informed indirectly from gardai that a lot of these crashes are indeed suicide, but as you said they are generally logged as misadventure

They should be outed as suicides.

Wanderer78

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Single vehicle crashes in the early hours into a tree or ditch often makes me think "deliberate".

Called a car crash though. So no one will ever know really.

The inquest =death by misadventure usually.

ive been informed indirectly from gardai that a lot of these crashes are indeed suicide, but as you said they are generally logged as misadventure

Spanish Eyes

Single vehicle crashes in the early hours into a tree or ditch often makes me think "deliberate".

Called a car crash though. So no one will ever know really.

The inquest =death by misadventure usually.

freshpopcorn

Augme wrote: »

Like maybe his neighbours might forget seeing him bash his wives head in in the garden?

It's the little things that make a big difference. There's a case in the UK of a missing person and a big piece of evidence was a neighbour remembering that the killers car was faced in a different way than the previous night!

Augme

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Take for instance if a husband kills his wife and disposes of the body. All he has to do is go to the Garai say his wife was off form with the last few weeks and sement depressed and is now missing.
He could say he doesn't want it made public. In this time people could forget vital information of what they saw/heard. Which could be vital information.

Like maybe his neighbours might forget seeing him bash his wives head in in the garden?

unseenfootage

languagenerd wrote: »

I don't know for certain about here, but in the UK most media outlets won't report on suicides for fear of encouraging copycats. Or if they do report it, they won't publish specific details on how the person died - it's a clause in the IPSO Editors Code of Practice there. It's not covering up suicide as much as trying not to normalise or sensationalise it.

I assume it's partly for the same reasons as in Ireland. Partly for that, and partly for the family's sake.

Even though the media may not report it, Coroner's records are usually made public. Anybody who has an interest, journalist, friend or estranged relative for example could go to the library or coroner's office, pay a quid or two and get the record.

unseenfootage

McGruber wrote: »

Have you got your fingers set to gibberish all the time?

If a person is found hanging in the woods and it was proven to be a murder, then yes, as it potentially affects the public.

If it was a suicide, then no, I don't think the public have a right to know.

It doesn't make sense.

You suggest that public money be spent on coroners to determine cause of death. If it was homicide then explicitly say so. If suicide then don't tell the public.

As if there are more than two options.

If the guy that was found hanging in the woods wasn't killed by someone then the only viable explanation is that it was a suicide.

languagenerd

Stephen Hero wrote: »

Thanks

My problem is with hypocrisy

People saying that we have a suicide problem

while simultaneously supporting euphemistic and sanitised reporting of suicides or cover-ups.

I don't know for certain about here, but in the UK most media outlets won't report on suicides for fear of encouraging copycats. Or if they do report it, they won't publish specific details on how the person died - it's a clause in the IPSO Editors Code of Practice there. It's not covering up suicide as much as trying not to normalise or sensationalise it.

I assume it's partly for the same reasons as in Ireland. Partly for that, and partly for the family's sake.

Stephen Hero

McGruber wrote: »

Have you got your fingers set to gibberish all the time?

If a person is found hanging in the woods and it was proven to be a murder, then yes, as it potentially affects the public.

If it was a suicide, then no, I don't think the public have a right to know.

I think the public do have a right to know.

Not necessarily the details of the suicide. A simple confirmation that the person took their own life would suffice. Otherwise they are quite entitled to speculate.

freshpopcorn

Augme wrote: »

freshpopcorn wrote: »

How would this work just out of interest?
Would the person still have to report it to the Gardai? Or could they say they didn't want to report it.
If they had to report to to the Gardai could they stop the Gardai from releasing the name?
I just think it would be very helpful for somebody who might want to cover something up.

Not sure what you mean when you ask how would it work. Gardai ask family if they want the media notified, they say no. Not much else to it. The circumstances/situation of how the person went missing would obviously dictate how it's treated as well. Don't really see how it would be helpful for a cover up.

Take for instance if a husband kills his wife and disposes of the body. All he has to do is go to the Garai say his wife was off form with the last few weeks and sement depressed and is now missing.
He could say he doesn't want it made public. In this time people could forget vital information of what they saw/heard. Which could be vital information.

Barry Badrinath

unseenfootage wrote: »

So in your opinion the coroner's courts should be top secret and the media should be barred?

Yes, thats exactly what im saying. Ugh