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Child Item

Too hipster for school

Witchie

A lad in my town has taken to the internets to moan about being bullied by his school for being sent home because of his beard. It is causing fierce debate hai on facebook. What do you think?

The Monaghan Mouth Facebook Page

Here is an extract of his rant on fb:

"Hello , my name is Hipster McHipster , I am 16 years old and I am in 5th year in St.Macartan's College , a catholic school .
This morning I was in my registration class and was sent to the vice principles office because of my beard . When I spoke to her , she said "you can not walk about this school with that beard" and then she took me to the principles office . He said to me "did you ever hear of the amish people over in america?" I said " Yes I did why?" , he then stated that I looked like one of them with the beard and said "you need to go home and shave it off" . I was just disgusted by it , it was racism , and discrimination to me as there was plenty of other people in my school with beards , some like mine and some different , the school has a policy against bullying and this was more or less bullying where I was told to go home and shave it off ."

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pickarooney

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Try getting into a Muslim or Jewish academy/School for example.

Why on earth would I want to do that? Was I not clear in that I don't encourage sexual and religious discrimination?

darkpagandeath

pickarooney wrote: »

It's a school that doesn't allow girls or non Catholics. Why on earth is that kind of discrimination not only permitted but encouraged and even praised? Talk about preparing kids for adult life...

Try getting into a Muslim or Jewish academy/School for example.

Esel

"Stand by your principal's" my English teacher always thought me.

"Never beard the lying in his then" was also good advise.

"A good day to shave the hay" was a saying I often herd in my younger daze.

"I will in me erse" was a good sean-fhocal too. (sick)

pickarooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For clarification, are you retracting the assertion that they do not admit non Catholics?

Where are you getting this "do they have to wear a cross" thing? Is there some suggestion that they do or is this, again, completely made up by you?

It's on the first page of their school policy. All students required to wear the school crest, which is a cross, along with some other hypocritical guff about mutual respect and acceptance. I didn't see anything about Sikhs or Muslims.

[Deleted User]

pickarooney wrote: »

'It's not that uncommon' is not an excuse. It's retrograde. Do the Sikhs and Muslims have to comply with the no beards rule? And have to wear a cross?

For clarification, are you retracting the assertion that they do not admit non Catholics?

Where are you getting this "do they have to wear a cross" thing? Is there some suggestion that they do or is this, again, completely made up by you?

pickarooney

'It's not that uncommon' is not an excuse. It's retrograde. Do the Sikhs and Muslims have to comply with the no beards rule? And have to wear a cross?

[Deleted User]

pickarooney wrote: »

It's a school that doesn't allow girls or non Catholics. Why on earth is that kind of discrimination not only permitted but encouraged and even praised? Talk about preparing kids for adult life...

Acc to their wiki page, they have Protestant, Muslim, Hindu and Sikh students.

Might I ask your evidence for the assertion that they exclude non Catholics?

The all boys thing, as you are aware, is not uncommon. The assertion that they exclude people on religious grounds is, in this day and age, far more serious.

Little CuChulainn

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's the need for such a rule I'm questioning in the first place. If said educators need rules on facial hair (and you have to question why) and are more concerned about enforcing them than they are about class and curriculum content, they are morons.

I don't know if he's a problem or not - there's no mention made of whether or not he studies and gets decent grades or not. Clearly not an issue.

Apart from a uniformity thing, I'd say it also grew out of a concern for hygiene and safety. It's a perfectly reasonable ruled that will be encountered in many workplaces.

sugarman wrote: »

I hate this attitude in schools.

Our principal would stand at the main entrance every single morning, pulling EVERYONE up for earings/piercings, beards, tattoos and non school items of clothing. Also, if he didnt like your choice of school shoes!

Generally anywhere between 20-30 students would be pulled aside each morning, some would comply, others wouldnt and be sent home. At a guess 5-10 per day. Which is a joke, because of appearance over their education.

Generally the people he would pull up, would be the quite type, usually "rockers" that do well in school and their studies. Yet there were plenty of scumbags disrupting classes and acting the bollox every day of the week he'd let get away with murder.

A lot these school rules and policies need to get updated and/or become more relaxed, especially where the student is a good student.

A schools code of practice and it's enforcement is the best way of demonstrating to children how the law works in adulthood. You might say it's at the expense of education but I consider it to be an important life lesson, especially in situations where this kind of lesson is missing at home. You break a rule you get punished. Simple and effective.

theteal

I was wondering why he even mentioned the Amish in his rant. Then I looked at the link. That's a fine example of a fluffy ginger Amish beard.

pickarooney

It's a school that doesn't allow girls or non Catholics. Why on earth is that kind of discrimination not only permitted but encouraged and even praised? Talk about preparing kids for adult life...

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

It might look bad but who cares. Denying education for no reason. I assume it's like that in most schools.

It's not denying education for no reason, it's imposing a sanction because a rule was broken. One may disagree with the rule, the sanction, criticise the Board of Management or teachers who made the rule but have the school performing so well. But they are entitled to make such rules, and indeed determine the sanctions. Just as employers are and do. Hopefully he'll come to his senses and learn a good lesson about life out of all this, and drop the silly "rush to social media playing hysterical victim card" routine.

darkpagandeath

There tends to be gaps in stories like this, You know the fella being young. Probably the 5-6th time he's been told to shave it off. Only after repeated warnings I wager he was sent home. Unless he can grow that beard in 24 hours.

pickarooney

The Amish are up in arms all over Twitter about this.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's the need for such a rule I'm questioning in the first place. If said educators need rules on facial hair (and you have to question why) and are more concerned about enforcing them than they are about class and curriculum content, they are morons.

I don't know if he's a problem or not - there's no mention made of whether or not he studies and gets decent grades or not. Clearly not an issue.

But are the more concerned about enforcing the rule than teaching or is it just a case that there is a rule,he refused to follow it and he is being told to follow the rule or he can't attend.It's his own fault if his education suffers and nobody elses. Education is mainly down to the person being educated.

It doesn't matter whether there is a need for the rule or not there are dress codes rules everywhere when he gets out of school and the school have decided that there is going to be a dress code and he needs to comply with it whether he wants to or not.He's the problem in this situation not anyone else.

[Deleted User]

That school has always been like that. Lads not allowed in till they shaved off their bleached hair.

It might look bad but who cares. Denying education for no reason. I assume it's like that in most schools.

Optimalprimerib

Whatever about the beard, he should be in trouble for bad-mouthing the school on social media.

More and more companies are vetting potential candidates on how they use social media and in this case he looks like too much trouble to be bothered with.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Less competition in clothing.

Did you actually read the post?

rsh118

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Actually uniforms weren't always common in Ireland.

I know, but parents look at private schools and decide that being unable to have a high staff to student ratio they'll just go for the uniform instead.

discus

sugarman wrote: »

I
A lot these school rules and policies need to get updated and/or become more relaxed, especially where the student is a good student.

Not a great idea... Open to abuse (as much as I agree with you that it would be ideal)

Eugene Norman

rsh118 wrote: »

The argument usually stems from 'that's the way it's always been' which as we know is a ridiculous point of view.

Uniform no more improves learner outcomes than walking or driving to school. It just doesn't matter. Parents like it because it reminds them of the past and that's it really. Same reason you still have to address your teacher by surname like a character in Oliver Twist!

Actually uniforms weren't always common in Ireland.

Eugene Norman

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

While I can see the argument in favour of a uniform, I've never had anyone successfully explain to me what a uniform achieves that a good sensible dress-code (no brands, football shirts, ripped or torn jeans/shirts) does.

Less competition in clothing.

djflawless

Seen the fb post
Yes he looks like a tool
Yes he should have been sent home to shave
Yes he should follow the school rules and charters
No, saying your beard reminds someone of the Amish is not racist
Feckin geebag of a young lad

LionelNashe

When I was in school, there was no rule against beards. If you have a pointless rule, as this school does, then some students are going to dig their heels in and resist. Then you have a stand-off where neither side wants to lose face.

These situations could be avoided if schools examined their rules and removed the ones that were unnecessary, before a stand-off develops.

Resistance is the correct response to rules that have no purpose. You have to start life as you mean to go on, and not back down to petty authoritarianism. This kid shouldn't have gone home, or walked out, or posted on Facebook. He should have informed the school that he was going to take his seat for class, and that they could either forcibly remove him or do what they should have done in the first place and remove the pointless rule.

rsh118

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

While I can see the argument in favour of a uniform, I've never had anyone successfully explain to me what a uniform achieves that a good sensible dress-code (no brands, football shirts, ripped or torn jeans/shirts) does.

The argument usually stems from 'that's the way it's always been' which as we know is a ridiculous point of view.

Uniform no more improves learner outcomes than walking or driving to school. It just doesn't matter. Parents like it because it reminds them of the past and that's it really. Same reason you still have to address your teacher by surname like a character in Oliver Twist!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

rsh118 wrote: »

The problem with uniform is that parents like it, because it's Victorian, you know, back when everything was better for everyone.

There's scant evidence uniform improves outcomes in any way.

While I can see the argument in favour of a uniform, I've never had anyone successfully explain to me what a uniform achieves that a good sensible dress-code (no brands, football shirts, ripped or torn jeans/shirts) does.

rsh118

RedemptionZ wrote: »

The rest of Europe seems to have no trouble with it. A lot of them with much higher regarded systems than ourselves.

The problem with uniform is that parents like it, because it's Victorian, you know, back when everything was better for everyone.

There's scant evidence uniform improves outcomes in any way.

RedemptionZ

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

School is not a place for differentiating between people due to their personal style and wealth outside school you can do whatever the hell you want.

The rest of Europe seems to have no trouble with it. A lot of them with much higher regarded systems than ourselves.

AtomicHorror

No beards in school? Is this a thing? When did that happen? I had various kinds of facial hair failures throughout secondary school, and many of my classmates had impressive beards. Never a word said to anyone about it, at least not in an official capacity.

Some of the teachers were dicks about it, but there was no policy to back them up. Did I just go to some weirdly progressive 90's Catholic boys secondary?

jimmycrackcorm

The principal should have just said - we are the Borg, you will be assimilated. Then there would be no issue.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Grand.But this case isn't about education it's about somebody not following the rules of his school.Everything else is irrelevant.

He didn't follow the rules , he has been punished .

The morons educating him are doing a good job with everyone else seeing as it is the 11th best boys school in the country.

Maybe he is the problem and not everyone else.

It's the need for such a rule I'm questioning in the first place. If said educators need rules on facial hair (and you have to question why) and are more concerned about enforcing them than they are about class and curriculum content, they are morons.

I don't know if he's a problem or not - there's no mention made of whether or not he studies and gets decent grades or not. Clearly not an issue.