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Getting the dole while studying, what happens if you get caught?

Talula123

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

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[Deleted User]

I am studying while retaining my welfare payment, on VTOS. Unfortunately it means I can't work more than 20 hours, even over the summer, because if I get a full time job I can't get payment for my second year of study. It's a bit of a messed up system, but it's the honest way of doing it.

illdoit2morrow

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If you're caught you repay everything and get a nice criminal conviction to boot.

Not true in all cases, the conviction part that is.

Keane2baMused

illdoit2morrow wrote: »

Not true in all cases, the conviction part that is.

Rarely true in fact. Criminal convictions are exceptional.

Doesn't make it right though.

I also know someone who claimed while on a college course and they had about 8k to pay back...

intheclouds

Keane2baMused wrote: »

I also know someone who claimed while on a college course and they had about 8k to pay back...

Probably cheaper to pay back than take a bank loan upfront, presume you are not charged interest on paying back?

Keane2baMused

intheclouds wrote: »

Probably cheaper to pay back than take a bank loan upfront, presume you are not charged interest on paying back?

True but you will always have the 'dole cheat' stamp on your file. Should you need welfare for some reason in the future (even for pensions) it doesn't look great!

intheclouds

Keane2baMused wrote: »

True but you will always have the 'dole cheat' stamp on your file. Should you need welfare for some reason in the future (even for pensions) it doesn't look great!

Doesnt look great?

I dont think Id really care about how it "looked", so long as I couldnt be refused further legitimate social welfare services/payments as a result.

No - how it looked wouldnt bother me at all.

Keane2baMused

intheclouds wrote: »

Doesnt look great?

I dont think Id really care about how it "looked", so long as I couldnt be refused further legitimate social welfare services/payments as a result.

No - how it looked wouldnt bother me at all.

How are they to know if you're legit?

With the dept of social protection it's guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around. If you have been caught essentially taking money you are not entitled to that's a major red flag for anything you need to claim in future.

intheclouds

Keane2baMused wrote: »

How are they to know if you're legit?

With the dept of social protection it's guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around. If you have been caught essentially taking money you are not entitled to that's a major red flag for anything you need to claim in future.

The point Im making is, that I wouldnt be banned from applying for things in the future.

If you pay the money back then you havent taken anything, so the red flag can only say "took money, gave it back".

turnikett1

I did it before OP, when I was really really stuck. I got caught, and they simply just cut me off. I didn't even have to repay anything, though I normally you do have to. I just decided to leave college that year, get a full time job, save up money then go back the following year

Keane2baMused

intheclouds wrote: »

The point Im making is, that I wouldnt be banned from applying for things in the future.

If you pay the money back then you havent taken anything, so the red flag can only say "took money, gave it back".

Yep that's true but it could make it extremely difficult for a claim to be approved.

intheclouds

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Yep that's true but it could make it extremely difficult for a claim to be approved.

Im not so sure about that actually.

I know a few different people who were accidently overpaid, and when it was discovered (in some cases by DSP and in some cases by the people themselves) they just paid it back and got on with it and it didnt have any impact whatsoever on future claims. Once the books balance (ie, the money is paid back) they dont seem to care too much.

FortySeven

Just get a job. Most people manage it.

maudgonner

intheclouds wrote: »

Im not so sure about that actually.

I know a few different people who were accidently overpaid, and when it was discovered (in some cases by DSP and in some cases by the people themselves) they just paid it back and got on with it and it didnt have any impact whatsoever on future claims. Once the books balance (ie, the money is paid back) they dont seem to care too much.

Being accidentally overpaid is very different to making a fraudulent claim though.

donutheadhomer

Talula123 wrote: »

I want to do my masters degree but I can't afford it even with contribution fees and tax revenue to help to help cover fees its a pipe dream for me.
The economic crash happened when I had just started college, at that stage there was still funding for postgrad courses but by the time I got my BA degree doing a masters was out of reach financially, I havnt been able to find any work in years and most career jobs these days require a masters degree, im thinking the only way I can manage it financially is if I just stay on the dole and don't tell them im in full time education. I know it's a high risk and ive never done anything like that before.
Working part time wouldnt support me as rent is so high and thats if I was lucky enough to even find part time work. Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

So what happens if you do get caught out it? is it likely that I would be caught?

I used to work in an admin job in an IT and twice yearly we would get a request from DSW to forward them a list of all students currently enrolled. This was sent electronically and includes DOB, PPS, address etc - you will be caught

wokingvoter

intheclouds wrote: »

Doesnt look great?

I dont think Id really care about how it "looked", so long as I couldnt be refused further legitimate social welfare services/payments as a result.

No - how it looked wouldnt bother me at all.

You wouldn't be refused but because you had proved yourself to be a liar and a cheat already, the checks and reviews will be constant and quite rigorous and that can be very tedious
Thing about SW is, once you've shown your not to be trusted, they never really do again.

intheclouds

wokingvoter wrote: »

You wouldn't be refused but because you had proved yourself to be a liar and a cheat already, the checks and reviews will be constant and quite rigorous and that can be very tedious
Thing about SW is, once you've shown your not to be trusted, they never really do again.

Are the checks and reviews not already constant and rigorous?

Lux23

Google Springboard OP.

Keane2baMused

intheclouds wrote: »

Are the checks and reviews not already constant and rigorous?

Not particularly it seems. I know someone who wasn't asked to sign on for over 10 months. The person was in part time education and looking for work genuinely but still.

intheclouds

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Not particularly it seems. I know someone who wasn't asked to sign on for over 10 months. The person was in part time education and looking for work genuinely but still.

They changed how often you sign on when I was redundant (due to sheer numbers), it used to be every 3 months (at the office I used) but it went to once a year. They simply couldnt handle the volume of people during the recession. I always assumed it was going to go back to more frequently once things improved and there were less people signing on, Ive no idea how long it is now.

TerrorFirmer

Im in my late 20's and I have very little work experience due to not being able to gain employment.

I don't for one second believe that a person in their late 20's has not been able to find any work for almost ten years.

Grow up, get a basic job, save up and go do your masters. Stop looking for justification and excuses to rip the tax payer off because you feel you're too good to work like everyone else.

uck51js9zml2yt

maudgonner wrote: »

Being accidentally overpaid is very different to making a fraudulent claim though.

Very true.
I signed off last year but was overpaid due to their schedules. I applied for another payment while working and was owed back money.
They put a stop on the back money until I had called them to pay back the accidental overpayment.

It seems the op doesn't want any advice and has decided on the course of action. I.e. do his masters while claiming social welfare. He'll be caught very quickly !

sheepo

To the OP:

Sorry if this has been said already I haven't read the full thread.

I wanted to get Back to Education Allowance to do a Master's. The Master's course was organised as HDip for the taught part of the course and then if you did your thesis over the summer that got you the Master's.

So I just told the CWO that I was only doing the HDip part of it and I was able to get Back to Education Allowance for that and then signed back on the dole for the summer and completed my thesis at home.

wokingvoter

intheclouds wrote: »

Are the checks and reviews not already constant and rigorous?

No. Pretty much if you get any of the means tested payments , say disability allowance or non con pension, then there may be a random check on your finances, usually if they get an anonymous tip off but more regularly now if Revenue tip them off.
But if you were caught out as a cheat or in telling lies then even when you have paid back the money they will keep regularly asking you for bank statements and will suspend your payment if your not forthcoming
I know an elderly man and his wife now pensioners , he now with Alzheimer's , who scammed €80000 back in the day, got caugh,t CAB broke down the front door etc. nearly went to prison but their family mysteriously came up with the money, eventually got a noncon pension but get home visits from the Inspector with no warning sometimes at 9pm regularly and demands for bank statements regularly too

Chorcai

Talula123 wrote: »

I did i've been trying to find other options but you can't get back to education for postgrad courses

You can get BTEA for post grad teaching courses, its the only thing they cover.

If you are caught doing a course while on JSA you will be fined, made pay back all the money, etc etc I know of girl who was 2 years into a degree course and she had to pay back two years of payments. Not worth the hassle tbh.

Keane2baMused

Chorcai wrote: »

You can get BTEA for post grad teaching courses, its the only thing they cover.

If you are caught doing a course while on JSA you will be fined, made pay back all the money, etc etc I know of girl who was 2 years into a degree course and she had to pay back two years of payments. Not worth the hassle tbh.

No it actually covers any Hdip not just for education (so long as it's furthering your career). And also professional masters in education

The Randy Riverbeast

FortySeven wrote: »

Just get a job. Most people manage it.

Read the OP. If they could just get a job they would probably be just doing the job.

Talula123 wrote: »

I have very little work experiance due to not being able to gain employment.

juicyduckie

If the OP has had such a trouble getting a job, a Masters is not necessarily going to suddenly change this issue?

Are we missing something here OP?

I feel there has to be some further explanation as to why you have very little work experience when you're in your late twenties?

Anyway, scamming the dole is not the answer.

FortySeven

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Read the OP. If they could just get a job they would probably be just doing the job.

You need to be a spectacular amount of useless to be in your late twenties and not be able to work up till that time. And still not able to find work. If I can find employment then anyone can.

Op should emigrate. There's clearly no need for the rest of us to sustain an unemployable scammer.