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Eircode - its implemetation (merged)

beveragelady

I called An Post today to try to sort out a problem with deliveries. The customer service chap was very helpful and I think it all got sorted.
The thing is, I tried to give him my Eircode because I live at a vague rural address but he said that they're not using them because the system isn't set up.
Amazed!
It's bad enough that they're no good to users of satnavs or google maps, but this is just astonishing. Can anybody explain how this could have been launched to such fanfare when it's all but meaningless?

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Sam Russell

@Plodder and @ukoda

Can you stop hitting off each other and keeping on topic. Otherwise .....

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

So it's another cost then that businesses have to bear which they don't have in the UK or other countries that don't have a random hidden postcode. Shame.

Only for a business who are too narrow minded or stupid to realise that if they invest in this technology then they can be more efficient and actually save money, so it's actually a cost reduction in the long term for Irish businesses because they have a precise location for every order.
Your argument against against eircode is the same as arguing against the internal combustion engine because a push bike is free to pedal and no one should be forced to buy fuel because it's another cost to their business.

Anyway, this is off topic, so I won't let you draw me into another same old stupid argument over and over again. Read the title of the thread and keep to it.

Mod: This is off topic as above. Arguing with off topic posts is also off topic.

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

For the consumer? I would imagine so.

For the company? I doubt it, and apparently the delivery vans, fuel, drivers, insurance and all their other costs won't be free either. I<snip>.

So it's another cost then that businesses have to bear which they don't have in the UK or other countries that don't have a random hidden postcode. Shame.

Mod: Off topic

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

Will that app be free?

For the consumer? I would imagine so.

For the company? I doubt it, and apparently the delivery vans, fuel, drivers, insurance and all their other costs won't be free either. <snip>

Mod: Could you watch your language please.

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/687329883056422912

Will that app be free?

BowWow

I registered on the Saorview site yesterday and there is provision for Eircode in the address.

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes I agree, just annoying that some will dismiss the system without even trying it.

http://www.truckstopsrouting.com/products/truckstops-ireland/

Direct them here

So one of the worlds biggest routing software companies (mapmechanics) have a routing solution fully integrated with eircode.

What will eventually happen is that all routing software companies will start to adopt it and eventually by default, when a courier upgrades their system, they get an eircode enabled solution anyway

oscarBravo

Deleted User wrote: »

My wife was expecting a delivery and rang the courier company, gave our postcode and was told that "we don't use those ****ing yokes!".

If a courier company told me that, I'd retort that if they did use those ****ing yokes, they would be able to find my house without having to ring me every. frigging. time.

On the flipside, we got an inquiry today, asking whether we could provide service at a specified Eircode. Slow - very slow - but steady.

[Deleted User]

ukoda wrote: »

It will take years. But if 2 couriers can use it, then it really shows up the others resistance as unfounded

Yes I agree, just annoying that some will dismiss the system without even trying it.

ukoda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My wife was expecting a delivery and rang the courier company, gave our postcode and was told that "we don't use those ****ing yokes!".

Still a lot of resistance out there.

It will take years. But if 2 couriers can use it, then it really shows up the others resistance as unfounded

[Deleted User]

ukoda wrote: »

No? It's just taking some time to get things off the ground.

My wife was expecting a delivery and rang the courier company, gave our postcode and was told that "we don't use those ****ing yokes!".

Still a lot of resistance out there.

ukoda

threeiron wrote: »

Is Eircode being relaunched? A different format?

No? It's just taking some time to get things off the ground.

threeiron

ukoda wrote: »

According to the Autoaddress Twitter account they are about to launch eircode with 24 organisations:

Is Eircode being relaunched? A different format?

ukoda

According to the Autoaddress Twitter account they are about to launch eircode with 24 organisations:

7 Government,
5 Insurance,
2 Courier,
2 Telco,
2 Retail
6 other

It'll be really Interesting to see which 2 couriers are onboard, I'm assuming Nightline is one of them, the other could possibly be An Post, that would mean that 2 large couriers in Ireland use it. An Post being the largest by a long way

ukoda

https://twitter.com/doyleeamonn/status/687211417011916800

ukoda

https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/687329883056422912

oscarBravo

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I don't think you read my post as I intended it: you read it as a criticism of Eircode, I wrote it as a list of items to be addressed, no criticism or finger-pointing implied.

Nope, I took it at face value. The "you" in "you lost your Eircode" wasn't you, but whomever is complaining that they don't know their Eircode despite being informed of it.

hans aus dtschl

oscarBravo wrote: »

As for your second hurdle, they came up with a way around that: they posted out Eircodes. Granted, many people managed to lose their code, but if I give you something and you lose it, it's a little unfair to complain to me that you don't have access to it.

I don't think you read my post as I intended it: you read it as a criticism of Eircode, I wrote it as a list of items to be addressed, no criticism or finger-pointing implied.

For the record, I'm comfortable with the code design itself (other than a minor missed opportunity that the large-area codes are random outside Dublin, and the D4 lobby getting to choose their code) but the implementation isn't firing on all cylinders just yet. I know a lot of people with non-unique rural addresses and am interested in providing constructive suggestions, rather than fault-finding.

As such, posting out the Eircodes is one thing they did right, but they can hopefully do more too.

xband

larchill wrote: »

I see SuperValu are including eircode in their bonus points application. This is the 1st 'non State' instance of this that I've seen.

Parcel Motel were very early on too.

larchill

I see SuperValu are including eircode in their bonus points application. This is the 1st 'non State' instance of this that I've seen.

Sam Russell

my3cents wrote: »

Sorry but read to me like you were one of the crowd that were still grasping at the hope that Eircode might be changed sometime.

As I said, backseat modding is not tolerated - so do not do it.

If you have a problem with my modding, PM me or report it to the category mod.

However, I am not allowing discussion on the design of Eircode, only the progress of its implementation.

A thread was open to discuss alternative designs but that was closed as it became rubbish discussion on Eircode and its faults with the usual cheerleaders for each side with more heat than light.

my3cents

Sam Russell wrote: »

If you think it will be modified, tell me when and how.

There is a general election coming up and if it becomes an issue, then it might become part of a platform for government in a coalition to be implemented over the next 5 years, and even then it might not become activated during the lifetime of that government.

Otherwise, Capita will be allowed to run its term.

That is what I meant 'for some time'. No prejudice.

By the way - Backseat moderation will not be tolerated.

Sorry but read to me like you were one of the crowd that were still grasping at the hope that Eircode might be changed sometime.

Sam Russell

my3cents wrote: »

Come on you can't moderate this forum and then go and make prejudiced statements like that.

If you think it will be modified, tell me when and how.

There is a general election coming up and if it becomes an issue, then it might become part of a platform for government in a coalition to be implemented over the next 5 years, and even then it might not become activated during the lifetime of that government.

Otherwise, Capita will be allowed to run its term.

That is what I meant 'for some time'. No prejudice.

By the way - Backseat moderation will not be tolerated.

my3cents

Sam Russell wrote: »

MOD: I've merged the two remaining Eircode threads as there is duplicate postings.

This is for implementation discussions, not design discussions. The Eircode design is final and will not be modified for some time.

Come on you can't moderate this forum and then go and make prejudiced statements like that.

my3cents

marmurr1916 wrote: »

...

If I lived in rural Ireland, in a townland with no house numbers or names, I'd put a sign with my Eircode at the entrance to my house and I'd give the Eircode to anyone who needed to find me.

...

I have the name of the house up on a big hand carved plaque at the end of the drive even though Eircode don't actually have the house name in their database. Now this weeks task is going to be to get the router out and that fancy set of alphanumeric jigs I rarely use to make up one for the Eircode. Might do a few for the neighbors while I'm at it.

Sam Russell

MOD: I've merged the two remaining Eircode threads as there is duplicate postings.

This is for implementation discussions, not design discussions. The Eircode design is final and will not be modified for some time.

ukoda

A lot of listings on myhome.ie now include the properties eircode

marmurr1916

Sam Russell wrote: »

I remember a fellow coming up to me asking if I knew where 'XZDE Ltd' (made up name) was - its address was XZDE Ltd, Townland, Posttown, Co Whatsit. He wanted to serve a summons or a writ or some such. In effect, this company had no location because it had no precise address and so could avoid being served. Now that is not the situation that affects me, but is a parallel one. Eircode would solve this if the Eircode could be matched to this non-address.

A human readable address is needed as well.

It will now have an Eircode and its exact location can be seen on a map.

I posted an example of how lack of Eircodes in rural areas inhibits the delivery of legal documents in one of the closed threads.

A court had issued a summons to a driver who lived in a rural townland in Co. Donegal.

He claimed he'd never received the summons and that it must have been delivered to the wrong address because there were lots of families with the same surname as him in the townland he lived in.

If Eircodes were used on the driver licencing and car registration databases, his summons would have been delivered to the correct house. He could have claimed non-delivery but the court would have been unlikely to believe him given that Eircode identifies individual houses and other addresses whether there are house numbers or not.

You keep talking about the need for some means of being able to distinguish individual addresses - the Eircode is a unique address identifier which does this. There's no need for house numbers if you know the Eircode.

If I lived in rural Ireland, in a townland with no house numbers or names, I'd put a sign with my Eircode at the entrance to my house and I'd give the Eircode to anyone who needed to find me.

Even if I didn't do this, the map on the Eircode database will show them my precise location and the mobile version of this map allows navigation from one's present location to the location linked to the Eircode.

marmurr1916

ukoda wrote: »

I'm struggling to think of a postcode design that lets you find an address on a map when you've no idea which house it is?

Geo only code - can't do it
Heirarchical code - can't do it

The way to solve this is for people to share their eircode (or ANY postcode)

There's also no where to find a persons mobile number without asking them but we do ok with this.

A friend of mine lives abroad at present. He bought a house a few streets away from me in October, in a small town in the north-east of England, and paid £20.00 to the local council to get a wheelie bin delivered.

The bin still hasn't been delivered.

I've chased it up a few times on his behalf and today visited the council offices to try to get it sorted.

I was told that the address of the house he bought doesn't exist and that was the reason he couldn't get his bin delivered.

I thought this was strange since I know the address and gave them the correct address, the address is in the Royal Mail address/postcode finder online and he's received council tax bills (from the same council who couldn't deliver the bin!) and utility bills to the address, along with having documents from solicitors showing that he bought the house at this address.

The guy at the council office asked me for the postcode of the house. I gave it to him and he looked it up on their GPS mapping system. He showed me the street the postcode led him to and I pointed out the house, which is at the corner with another street.

The street my friend's house is on has a weird numbering system.

His house is at number 69, but number 67 is on the same side but at the very far end of the street, with odd numbers starting with 1 in between the two houses.

The street has also been divided with a paved area, complete with brick-built flower beds, meaning it's impossible to drive the full length of the street - you can walk or cycle but you can't drive. If you want to drive from no. 67 to no. 69 you have to leave the street at the no. 67 end, go around the corner, drive up the lane at the back of the street, turn the corner again and enter the street at the no. 69 end.

I have no idea who was responsible for the numbering of houses on the street (it's a street of terraced houses built in 1912 or thereabouts) but they obviously didn't pay much attention to numbering the houses in a logical sequence.

This has led to confusion on previous occasions with couriers, people delivering furniture, plumbers etc, going to the wrong end of the street (as they mainly input the postcode into their satnavs or phones, ending up on the right street but at the wrong end), but nobody's ever claimed before that the house didn't exist, despite having the correct address, including the correct street number, in their database.

I pointed out the location of the house on the map the council guy had displayed on his computer screen, then I looked at it more closely and it was numbered as 68 on the map, the wrong house number. The map was very detailed, showing the outline of each house and wall boundaries etc, plus the location of lamp-posts, manhole covers etc. But the outline of the house that was located at the corner where my friend's house is was numbered 68, not 69 as it should have been.

He entered a note into the database describing the correct location of the house (no. 69 at the corner of X Street and Y Street) but couldn't change the map to change 68 to 69.

If the UK had a postcode which identified individual addresses, would there have been such confusion?

Would it have mattered if the wrong house number had been added to the map?

If I put someone's Eircode into the Eircode database it shows me the precise location of the house on a map, unlike if I put someone's UK postcode into a database where I get the street (or part of it if it's a very long street) or a rough location in a rural area.

Therefore if there's a mistake in the house number on a map, but I've put in the correct Eircode, I can still see the precise location of the house and get to it so I can deliver a bin that was ordered and paid for over three months ago!

But using the UK system, if I put in the correct postcode I can only see the street and if the map doesn't show the house numbers correctly (and I'm reliant on maps because I'm delivering a bin to an area I'm not familiar with), I can't deliver the bin, unless I walk up and down the street, ringing doorbells and asking people for their house numbers (assuming there's anyone at home).

For me this was a very vivid example of the limitations of a postcode system that doesn't identify individual addresses. The council had the full correct address and postcode but still couldn't deliver the bin because the postcode naturally isn't linked on the map they use to an individual house.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

You're "problem" is extremely spurious, I don't see how ANYTHING could solve it for you, except you know, actually asking the person "what's your address and postcode" which you seem to have an aversion to and expect a government department to solve it for you

I remember a fellow coming up to me asking if I knew where 'XZDE Ltd' (made up name) was - its address was XZDE Ltd, Townland, Posttown, Co Whatsit. He wanted to serve a summons or a writ or some such. In effect, this company had no location because it had no precise address and so could avoid being served. Now that is not the situation that affects me, but is a parallel one. Eircode would solve this if the Eircode could be matched to this non-address.

A human readable address is needed as well.