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Is pinching someone's butt sexual assault?

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First I am a bloke. I have never pinched anyone's butt nor do I condone it. I have had my butt pinched twice by women on a hen's night out. No big deal. I appreciate it is different for a female and it happens more frequently . I would say that it is down the scale from groping someone or feeling their breast. So is it sexual assault?

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MadsL

orubiru wrote: »

Isn't this just a really insincere and condescending simplification of a far more complex issue?

Of course it is a simplification, but then it's really simple to understand what consent is, putting it in the context of not forcing tea on someone highlights just how simple asking consent should be. However some people seem to be unable to grasp such simplicity.

I'm feeling that this video is solely designed for people who just want to give themselves a smug pat on the back because they can explain consent in a "witty" way. I mean this is supposed to be "funny" right?

If other ways of explaining consent appear to have failed then why not explain it in a "witty" way.

I find it VERY hard to believe that a victim of sexual assault would watch this and respond with "LOL, so true, my rapist was just a big dummy who didn't understand that unconscious people don't want tea. LOL". Yet, when I've seen this video doing the rounds a lot of women seem to think it's a really hilarious video. What gives?

Sexual contact without consent isn't only rape - see the title of this thread.

Rapists are not a bunch of dumb dumbs who just don't understand consent. The are despicable, predatory, often violent, human beings and people need to wise up to that instead of perpetuating this "ah, sure just teach them not to do it" attitude that's doing the rounds.

If you spend any time in a sex-positive environment, you'll understand how consent as an issue is huge. The Burning Man community for example has issues all the time with people who confuse nudity with consent. Education about asking first is very important. That isn't just sexual, it extends to asking permission before taking photographs.

If you pinch someones butt without their consent then, yeah, you are a total @$$hole. It's assault, maybe sexual assault depending on circumstances, and the law should clamp down hard on behavior like that.

I'd certainly agree there is a legal dimension, but I'd also see it as an opportunity to have a serious conversation with the woman that did this. For example woud she actually find it amusing if the roles were reversed?

Videos like the above though? Nah, sniggering away and praising yourself for understanding consent better than a rapist is no praise at all really.

If you think that consent issues only involve rape then you should really have a hard think.

"Look at me! I understand that you can't force yourself on an unconscious woman!" OK then, so you're just like 99.999% of society, why are you shouting it from the rooftops?

So you have never been in a situation where a potential sexual partner has been drunk to the point where she could not give informed consent and you had to assess your actions?

Oh wait, is this video really just saying "Men are pretty terrible people"? Ah, NOW I understand.

If that was your takeaway then you clearly brought your own agenda to the video.

*shakes head*

[Deleted User]

orubiru wrote: »

Videos like the above though? Nah, sniggering away and praising yourself for understanding consent better than a rapist is no praise at all really.

Would you prefer this video then? It has nothing "sniggering" in it - and is done by a sex educator who strongly believes that education on consent is quite important - and not just preaching to the choir of people who all understand it anyway. She seems to feel it important enough - without thinking it is condescending to teach it to people who should know already.

bridgettedon

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I'd love for the lads laughing about this to spend just one night as a woman socializing in a city on a Friday night.

Arse pinching is the least of our worries.

And no- I don't think women should be allowed do it to men either.

What do you mean it's the least of your worries? What exactly are you worried about?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

bridgettedon wrote: »

What do you mean it's the least of your worries? What exactly are you worried about?

Being assaulted by a taxi driver on your way home, being one personal experience.

bridgettedon

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Being assaulted by a taxi driver on your way home, being one personal experience.

That's a terrible thing to happen.

I thought the poster was making it sound like women are nearly entering a war zone when they go out. I don't go out thinking oh I might be assaulted by someone. I go out thinking I hope I have a good night.

recylingbin

I only do it in Italy where its insulting not to.

riclad

IT,s sexual harrassment ,if some one touches you on the butt .
unless its a joke by friend or relative .
I don,t think you can say i got sexually assaulted if you are fully dressed ,
and the other person is fully dressed .
And you are not being held down or pushed against a wall .is it robbery if
someone takes a few chips from your plate at a party,
a few chips are worth maybe 5 pennys ,
is that the same as someone taking your phone or wallet from you in the street .
There has to be a context to everything .
That,s why i think its ok for 2 sixteen year olds to go out on a date,
a sixteen year old girl going out with a 22 year old man is weird and creepy.
you might be annoyed , you wont be scared by someone pinching your but for 2 seconds in a pub or at a party .

Smidge

bridgettedon wrote: »

That's a terrible thing to happen.

I thought the poster was making it sound like women are nearly entering a war zone when they go out. I don't go out thinking oh I might be assaulted by someone. I go out thinking I hope I have a good night.

Tbf, at times it can be.

I've had my backside pinched.
I've been slapped HARD on the backside. So hard a red hand print was left.
I've had guys put their hands actually up my skirt from behind in a crowd and pull at my underwear *shudder*
I've had my breasts grabbed, tweaked and one fukcing lunatic tried to motorboat me but got pushed away.
I've had a drink PURPOSELY poured over my chest and then told "Love a wet tshirt competition, me"

These are just off the top of my head.
All unprovoked.
All different times and different people.

darkpagandeath

Short answer yes.

thegreatgonzo

bridgettedon wrote: »

That's a terrible thing to happen.

I thought the poster was making it sound like women are nearly entering a war zone when they go out. I don't go out thinking oh I might be assaulted by someone. I go out thinking I hope I have a good night.

I don't go out much anymore but in my twenties I had a lot of incidents in niteclubs that made me defensive and wary about going into places like that. Things like when you are walking through a crowd with drinks in your hand having a guy put his hand up your skirt knowing you couldn't react, having guys come up behind me without so much as saying hello and start grinding away at me, a guy grabbing both my breasts while I'm walking past and have his friends all roar laughing. I could go on.
I don't think people get how humiliating that is to have that done to you in public, especially as you know the intention behind it is to humiliate you. I started associating the places with things that happened to me and just gave up on going there.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

First time, tell him to back off.
Second time, tell him to back off.
Third time, defend yourself.

Smidge

LexieOnRale wrote: »

First time, tell him to back off.
Second time, tell him to back off.
Third time, defend yourself.

A lot of the time most of my incidences were "hit and run" so to speak.
Except for potential motorboater

That's generally how it happens.
Grab and gone before an admonishment

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

They're generally back. There's one c u next Tuesday in the town I live in. Wouldn't say a word to you sober but anytime he'd see me out, he'd be up on top of me, grinding against me at the bar, groping me as I walked past him, feeling my arse at any given opportunity.
I had told him many times to **** off, only for him to laugh.

This one night I was in my dads local with him, walked down towards the bathroom and I nearly died, there he was sitting along side where I had to walk. He grabbed my wrist as I went by and I told him to get his hands off me. Of course he did the whole two hands up thing and laughed it off. Walking back from the toilet, he was standing up as I passed and he grabbed me as I tried to get past. Well, with every bit of strength I had, I upended him.

That's 4 years ago now and he hasn't put his hand on me since

Smidge

LexieOnRale wrote: »

They're generally back. There's one c u next Tuesday in the town I live in. Wouldn't say a word to you sober but anytime he'd see me out, he'd be up on top of me, grinding against me at the bar, groping me as I walked past him, feeling my arse at any given opportunity.
I had told him many times to **** off, only for him to laugh.

This one night I was in my dads local with him, walked down towards the bathroom and I nearly died, there he was sitting along side where I had to walk. He grabbed my wrist as I went by and I told him to get his hands off me. Of course he did the whole two hands up thing and laughed it off. Walking back from the toilet, he was standing up as I passed and he grabbed me as I tried to get past. Well, with every bit of strength I had, I upended him.

That's 4 years ago now and he hasn't put his hand on me since

That's what I mean though. He was harassing you on several occasions and you knew him. Most certainly doesn't make it right, not by a very fecking long shot.
BUT
It gave you an opportunity to challenge him on it.
When it happens by a randomer in a busy city club, its a different story.

The sense of anonymity they have makes them feel...like its ok or something. Its like when people make an appeal for a loved one on telly, they are told to use their first name..it makes them a REAL person, so harder for the person they are appealing to to hurt them.

Anyhoo..to all, I think the bum pinching thing seems harmless but imo its not.
Don't do it.
Its not classy and if someone you do it to seems to think its funny or takes it as a compliment??
Have serious questions about their standards

NachoBusiness

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I do not need the validation of some rat faced little buffoon showing me his appreciation by groping me, slapping my arse or trying to shove his tongue in my mouth. I do not need that validation from strangers. I get enough compliments before I go out from my OH and my best friends so the opinions of strangers aren't warranted, or appreciated.

That's fair enough (with regards to the behavior you highlight as being out of order at least, as it undoubtedly is) but, by also adding "some rat faced little buffoon" you are suggesting (whether you mean to or not) that you wouldn't really have an issue with such behavior if the blokes were good looking and tall. Otherwise, why bother referencing the appearance of men you don't want groping you? Seems odd.

everlast75

NachoBusiness wrote: »

That's fair enough (with regards to the behavior you highlight as being out of order at least, as it undoubtedly is) but, by also adding "some rat faced little buffoon" you are suggesting (whether you mean to or not) that you wouldn't really have an issue with such behavior if the blokes were good looking and tall. Otherwise, why bother referencing the appearance of men you don't want groping you? Seems odd.

I'm sure Lexie will answer you on that, but IMHO it doesn't suggest that at all. It's probably her description of a previous offender.

For the record, I've had my ass pinched, I'm a bloke and it doesn't bother me. I'm not saying that either blokes or women should be the same. I'm just saying it doesn't bother me.

Perhaps it's because its not a frequent occurrence. I'd imagine if you considered it a trivial annoyance and it happened often it would definitely up the level to infuriating.

One or two descriptions of what has happened to posters here are truly awful. Re the persistent offender re Lexie, you mentioned you have an OH; call it what you want but I'd have knocked out a fella that harassed my OH like that.

Gone Drinking

I know a guy who did this in a foreign country he was working in. Had a few too many, was in a bar (no excuse).

Chick called the cops and he went to court, ended up getting community service over it.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

NachoBusiness wrote: »

That's fair enough (with regards to the behavior you highlight as being out of order at least, as it undoubtedly is) but, by also adding "some rat faced little buffoon" you are suggesting (whether you mean to or not) that you wouldn't really have an issue with such behavior if the blokes were good looking and tall. Otherwise, why bother referencing the appearance of men you don't want groping you? Seems odd.

Any guy I'd be into wouldn't feel the need to sexually assault a woman to get her attention. If a man can't start a civilised conversation to break the ice, NEXT

nelly17

Jesus I'm quite shocked by some of the stuff on this thread - Drink has a lot to answer for though

Sam Kade

nelly17 wrote: »

Jesus I'm quite shocked by some of the stuff on this thread - Drink has a lot to answer for though

Did you ever get your bum pinched Nelly?

NachoBusiness

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Any guy I'd be into wouldn't feel the need to sexually assault a woman to get her attention. If a man can't start a civilised conversation to break the ice, NEXT

Any guy you would be into wouldn't feel the need to sexually assault a woman to get her attention? That makes no sense and in any case it doesn't address what I asked you. If anything, it further suggests that how a guy looks will determine you deem his behavior.

Again, the comment you made was:

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I do not need the validation of some rat faced little buffoon showing me his appreciation by groping me, slapping my arse or trying to shove his tongue in my mouth.

I don't like women who go around trying to get men to buy them drinks all night but if said "I can't stand fat chicks with faces like the back of buses who try and get men to buy them drinks all night" that would be me showing my true colours, imo, and I'd expect to get called on it, as it is showing that what I really don't want is unattractive women bothering me but gorgeous women can ask me for a drink anytime. If I just had an issue with that behavior, in and of itself, then I would say something like, "I can't stand women who try and get men to buy them drinks". Premising it with how someone looks is telling for me and just adds to the age old cliche, which I am sure you're aware of, that such behavior from men is only harassment / sexual assault / unwanted if they are unattractive.

Samaris

`I got what Lexie was talking about, although you have a point, Nacho. Although as regards the bit you quoted, I think that was more suggesting that she wouldn't find anyone who'd stoop to such kiddish levels to get a woman's attention attractive.

To be honest, I don't have a great ability to analyse "good looking" in a guy. But if a guy who looked like Adonis pinched me on a night out, they'd get glared at, and I'd probably, in the moment of eye-contact, not think that they looked particularly attractive at all to me. If I considered it afterwards, I'd probably think it was a shame that such looks were wasted on a boor and leave it at that. It would be no more welcome because the guy was attractive.

Strumms

I don't condone it and I've never done it. People shouldn't be going up to people and doing stuff like that uninvited and the law is clear about it. However...

I've had it done to me a few times... By pissed up girls in bars and I am not outraged by it, not flattered by it either just looked at them and thought '****ing drunken eejits' .... Not the sort you'd want to have a conversation with.

Personally unless the act of pinching escalated into something further either by touching or like someone harassing you or groping you or you generally felt threatened in some way I wouldn't be calling the cops. It's a bit much, would you be made a sex offender and be on a register if you got done for it ?

rainbow kirby

Strumms wrote: »

It's a bit much, would you be made a sex offender and be on a register if you got done for it ?

Maybe they should think of the possible consequences BEFORE they put their hands on someone... :rolleyes:

StewartGriffin

Interesting to cross read this thread with the one about the "Feminist Champion" violent pornstar James Deen thread on the AH front page.

Interesting point by Nacho above. Maybe less people complain when they find the person leering at them/pinching their ass, attractive.

smash

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Interesting point by Nacho above. Maybe less people complain when they find the person leering at them/pinching their ass, attractive.

It's valid. If someone flashed you in public and you found them unattractive then you'd be disgusted or might feel violated. But if a hotte did it you'd probably be chuffed and want to see more.

Samaris

smash wrote: »

It's valid. If someone flashed you in public and you found them unattractive then you'd be disgusted or might feel violated. But if a hotte did it you'd probably be chuffed and want to see more.

I wouldn't, I'd be annoyed no matter who it was.

Hammer89

Samaris wrote: »

I wouldn't, I'd be annoyed no matter who it was.

Don't open the attachment in that PM I just sent.

Thirteenth Step

First of all it shouldn't be any difference if it's a man doing it to a woman, woman doing it to a man, man doing it to a man ect. It's not sexual assault though, but I do believe it's sexual harassment.

Strumms

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Maybe they should think of the possible consequences BEFORE they put their hands on someone... :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you like but that's a simplistic argument and not very insightful to be honest... Can you answer my question btw since you decided to quote my post ..? Unfortunately either sex who do this most likely don't think.. This being the problem really.