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Is pinching someone's butt sexual assault?

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First I am a bloke. I have never pinched anyone's butt nor do I condone it. I have had my butt pinched twice by women on a hen's night out. No big deal. I appreciate it is different for a female and it happens more frequently . I would say that it is down the scale from groping someone or feeling their breast. So is it sexual assault?

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smash

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Arse pinching is the least of our worries.

I doubt it's a worry at all. Nobody leaves the house thinking "I hope nobody pinches my arse tonight"

NiallBoo

How do other guys think a bouncer would react if you brought this to their attention?

It's something that that has really annoyed me when it's happened but if I wanted to tell a bouncer I think I world just get laughed at.

Avatar MIA

I love bums, but have never pinched one, not even girls I was with. Gentle tap of appreciation for sure (girls I've been with.)

Have had my bum pinched but shrugged it off as a joke. Sometimes there simply are double standards. There are power issues and sexual gratification, two reasons why it's different.

Medusa22

smash wrote: »

I doubt it's a worry at all. Nobody leaves the house thinking "I hope nobody pinches my arse tonight"

I suspect more people leave the house thinking ''I hope somebody will pinch my arse tonight''

orubiru

MadsL wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8

Isn't this just a really insincere and condescending simplification of a far more complex issue?

I'm feeling that this video is solely designed for people who just want to give themselves a smug pat on the back because they can explain consent in a "witty" way. I mean this is supposed to be "funny" right?

I find it VERY hard to believe that a victim of sexual assault would watch this and respond with "LOL, so true, my rapist was just a big dummy who didn't understand that unconscious people don't want tea. LOL". Yet, when I've seen this video doing the rounds a lot of women seem to think it's a really hilarious video. What gives?

Rapists are not a bunch of dumb dumbs who just don't understand consent. The are despicable, predatory, often violent, human beings and people need to wise up to that instead of perpetuating this "ah, sure just teach them not to do it" attitude that's doing the rounds.

If you pinch someones butt without their consent then, yeah, you are a total @$$hole. It's assault, maybe sexual assault depending on circumstances, and the law should clamp down hard on behavior like that.

Videos like the above though? Nah, sniggering away and praising yourself for understanding consent better than a rapist is no praise at all really. "Look at me! I understand that you can't force yourself on an unconscious woman!" OK then, so you're just like 99.999% of society, why are you shouting it from the rooftops?

Oh wait, is this video really just saying "Men are pretty terrible people"? Ah, NOW I understand.

orubiru

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Well, personally, even though I know that it isn't very realistic, in an ideal world, I would like to see education as the answer to these kinds of things.

I genuinely believe people who grope, or pinch or whatever, 9 times out of ten they are doing it because they don't 'see any harm in it.' They're probably not rapists or something because they know how wrong that is.

I think that we probably underestimate just how far people will go to be total @$$holes.

I try to think about what would happen if one of the lads came back to our table from the bar and said "I just grabbed the arse of yer one in the short dress there". It would not go down well with the group at all. Not at all.

BUT we all know there are people who will go out on the weekend looking to start trouble, looking to get into a fight, looking to victimize someone. You can see them out and about every single weekend in every single city in the world.

These people know what they are doing is wrong but they do it anyway. They know that they are hurting others but they do it anyway. Education will never solve this because some humans are just bitter or jealous or angry for whatever reason and they will treat other people badly because of this.

You're not gonna be able to walk up to someone on an angry, self destructive, alcohol fueled rampage and say "Hey buddy, you think maybe you could NOT go around grabbing asses tonight? You see, think of it as a cup of tea..."

DivingDuck

orubiru wrote: »

Rapists are not a bunch of dumb dumbs who just don't understand consent. The are despicable, predatory, often violent, human beings and people need to wise up to that instead of perpetuating this "ah, sure just teach them not to do it" attitude that's doing the rounds.

If you pinch someones butt without their consent then, yeah, you are a total @$$hole. It's assault, maybe sexual assault depending on circumstances, and the law should clamp down hard on behavior like that.

Our society has really let young men down by teaching them nonsense like "Good girls are told to say no the first time" and "It's your job to try and her job to deny"-- that last came from Coronation Street, for god's sake. While there is unquestionably a very high proportion of violent predators behind sex attacks, some are genuinely confused young men who have been conditioned to believe that it is not only their right but their responsibility to push for as much sexual contact as a woman will physically allow.

This doesn't mean they should go unpunished, as a young woman has been vitcimised, but surely it would be better for both parties to educate them both before anything actually happens? The jokey "hurr hurr" tone is something used to educate young people about anything vaguely controversial or embarrassing, and has been for years, so I don't see it changing now. I think the message and idea behind these sorts of videos is a good one, even if the execution is sometimes slightly flawed.

R.D. aka MR.D

orubiru wrote: »

Oh wait, is this video really just saying "Men are pretty terrible people"? Ah, NOW I understand.

I really didn't get that from the video as consent is not only an issue that men have to worry about. Men came be raped by women, I feel like this video is aimed at both sexes.

If this video makes one idiot realise that he/she shouldn't push the boundaries, then it's not all bad. Lots of people still believe that rape is just some guy waiting behind a bush who jumps out and forces himself on you. There are plenty of rapists who would never make it on crimeline because it's a much more insidious thing.

NiallBoo

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Men came be raped by women...

scarily, I think that Irish law says otherwise.

jimgoose

Is the notion of keeping your hands off other people's arses without invitation and/or due process really that complicated to fathom? I would say it's at least the polite, mannerly thing to do.

Lollipops23

orubiru wrote: »

Isn't this just a really insincere and condescending simplification of a far more complex issue?

You would think it's that simple, but apparently not.

Yes, it sucks for normal guys who understand that rape is bad have to listen to all this. But it sucks even more to be on the receiving end of it tbh.

orubiru

Lollipops23 wrote: »

You would think it's that simple, but apparently not.

Yes, it sucks for normal guys who understand that rape is bad have to listen to all this. But it sucks even more to be on the receiving end of it tbh.

Yes, but what I am saying is that even rapists know that rape is bad.

If you are herding a group of, say, 50 lads in their late teens into a classroom to show them a video about how rape is bad then the vast majority of them are going to feel that it's condescending and as soon as they leave that classroom they will mock it mercilessly.

So this leaves us in the situation where the couple of bad apples we are trying to "educate" see their peers mock this insincere, and obviously patronizing, garbage and they most likely just laugh along.

"Rape is bad mmmmm-kay".

Is it not more reasonable to say that people will do things that they know are wrong when they think they can get away with it?

If we understand that someone will grab or pinch a strangers butt because they think they can get away with it then we can focus on making sure that they can't get away with it.

If we are going to tell people "don't do it because it's wrong" some people are still going to do it when they think they can get away with it. Nothing will change.

Some people are fundamentally immoral. How do you solve that problem?

jimgoose

o1s1n wrote: »

Did your last arse pinching rampage not go as you expected?

Aaaand... I have a title for my next studio album. I thankee, squire.

Azalea

Sam Kade wrote: »

People are so fcuking sensitive nowadays.

Do tell what's so ****ing sensitive "nowadays" about not wanting a stranger to pinch your arse when you're enjoying your night out.

Hammer89

Butt? No. Just no. Even ass is a bit too American.

Avatar MIA

Sam Kade wrote: »

People are so fcuking sensitive nowadays.

Sam, how sanguine would you be if a man pinched your bum?

Sam Kade

Azalea wrote: »

Do tell what's so ****ing sensitive "nowadays" about not wanting a stranger to pinch your arse when you're enjoying your night out.

Or even moaning about it when it happens, just tell them to F off. No point moaning to anyone else about it when they don't give a sh1t.

suicide_circus

Never understood the pinching thing. That's not my first reaction when I see a big massive arse, my initial impulse is to wear it like a hat.

Samaris

Sam Kade wrote: »

Or even moaning about it when it happens, just tell them to F off. No point moaning to anyone else about it when they don't give a sh1t.

You might not, people who dislike it and think that people that do it are sleazy and unpleasant might disagree.

Your opinion /= everyone's opinion.

smash

suicide_circus wrote: »

Never understood the pinching thing. That's not my first reaction when I see a big massive arse, my initial impulse is to wear it like a hat.

We need clarification here. Are you saying massive as in big, or massive as in epic?

suicide_circus

smash wrote: »

We need clarification here. Are you saying massive as in big, or massive as in epic?

I'm talking ****ing enormous

smash

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm talking ****ing enormous

I will never understand your kind!

osarusan

orubiru wrote: »

Rapists are not a bunch of dumb dumbs who just don't understand consent. The are despicable, predatory, often violent, human beings and people need to wise up to that instead of perpetuating this "ah, sure just teach them not to do it" attitude that's doing the rounds.

I don't know about that - I think it oversimplifies the issue of what constitutes rape.

What I mean is, virtually everybody would agree with the statement that rape is wrong, but there will be less agreement on what actually constitutes rape itself.

The example of the woman who was jailed for 8 years (was it?) for impersonating a man (creating a facebook profile and so on) and having a woman blindfold herself so that she could have sex with her without the woman knowing that it was her (still thinking it was the man) is an example of this. Without getting into the discussion of guilt or innocence in that particular case, there was definite disagreement on the thread about whether it constituted rape or not.

Sometimes it's very clear, but sometimes it's not, and not every person considered a rapist believes/accepts that what they have done was rape - some are genuinely shocked to hear it described (and prosecuted) as such.

jimgoose

suicide_circus wrote: »

Never understood the pinching thing. That's not my first reaction when I see a big massive arse, my initial impulse is to wear it like a hat.

We have a winner. Bravo, Sir - bra-vo!! :cool:

NachoBusiness

Only if they're smoking it with their vagina.

[Deleted User]

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I'd love for the lads laughing about this to spend just one night as a woman socializing in a city on a Friday night. Arse pinching is the least of our worries.

Would not mind experiencing that myself just once. Sure I can talk to women and read things written by them which while informative I know the writer is not talking for all women - despite sounding like she thinks she is. But nothing would equal experiencing it myself to really understand it I guess.

I can experience it to some degree vicariously through female friends and my girlfriends but even that is only a substitute. Certainly however having girlfriends on the upper scale of what people consider attractive - they attract that kind of attention in public places - especially pubs and night clubs - as much as or more than most. So I have seen it myself going on and I know what asses some men can be - and I know how easily that minority of anamalistic men with no class or charm or - most likely - sexual experience - can give the rest of us a bad name.

Certainly - as another user already wrote in the thread - no one in my circle of friends would act that way - nor would we let them away with it if they do. It is just a mentality and head space I can not even imagine being in - let alone acting upon. And despite being an over sex obsessed pervert at the best of times - I have never had any urges to molest strangers in public. I can but hope I never do.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

I would not consider myself to be overly sensitive or a raging man hating feminist at all. However, one thing I do not tolerate at all, is being pawed at. If I'm standing at the bar and a man comes up behind me, puts his hand on my waist to get past me without shoving me out of the way, that's fine, I'll appreciate him not ramming me out of the way. Anything else? Keep your hands to yourself or you'll be picking up your broken teeth off the floor with your broken fingers.

I get dressed up. I go out. I meet my friends and we collectively go out to enjoy ourselves. I am a confident enough girl. I'm by no means a beautiful looking young wan, but I am what I am and I'm comfortable with my appearance. I enjoy fashion, I enjoy beauty. I like making an effort for myself. I do not trawl through asos and pick outfits that I think will get me laid. I pick them out based on whether or not I like them and I'd feel comfortable in them.

So, I do not need the validation of some rat faced little buffoon showing me his appreciation by groping me, slapping my arse or trying to shove his tongue in my mouth. I do not need that validation from strangers. I get enough compliments before I go out from my OH and my best friends so the opinions of strangers aren't warranted, or appreciated.

And woe betide if you tell them to **** off, then you're stuck up, you're a c u n t, you're a frigid bitch, you're only a dog anyway.

I love the comments that you should be flattered, or you should lighten up. I'm out for my own enjoyment, I don't have to leave myself feeling cheap and nasty for the enjoyment of some ugly little virgin still living at home with his mother, because a real man would not make a woman feel like that.

DellyBelly

Nothing wrong with it...most girls take it as a compliement I'd say. The only time it could be an issue is if you hurt the person i.e pinch too hard...

Samaris

DellyBelly wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it...most girls take it as a compliement I'd say. The only time it could be an issue is if you hurt the person i.e pinch too hard...

Okay, now try reading the thread for opinions from actual females (and males if it comes to that, they don't tend to like being pinched either)

Duggy747

Last time anyone pinched my arse was when I was in Santa Ponsa, I turned around and it was this 4ft man in leather pants and a fishnet top blowing kisses at me