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Is the Western World anti-man?

0byme75341jo28

I think it is clear to see for anyone who can think for themselves that the western world is currently extremely anti-man. The examples are everywhere, from gender quotas to cries of "sexual harrassment" for being stared at. Misandry is now acceptable in most areas of life, whilst any attempt to point this out is usually received with a backlash of abuse, and quite ironically, more misandry.

In my opinion the media and large portions of the Internet are doing their best to attach a shame to being male, similarly to what's happening to white people. Somehow it's my fault for being male and therefore benefitting from this imaginary "male privilege", and I should be ashamed of that. Nonsense.

I'm sick to the back teeth of attempts being made to make me feel bad about my masculinity. I'm a man, and I'm proud of that fact. I hope everyone feels the same way about themselves, even those who have changed gender.

The equality movement has gone too far.

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hatrickpatrick

B0jangles wrote: »

Hang on, if these feminist lobby groups are so pervasive and powerful, how come there are still ZERO woman-dominated governments / judiciaries / Police Forces / Multinationals?

(I'm not saying there should be BTW, personally I'm all for balance, but if Nacho's super-powerful feminist lobby groups exist then they are remarkably inefficient)

Fake edit: Apparently there are 2 countries globally where women make up more than 50% of the government - Bolivia and Rwanda.

Why, in these arguments, is the gender of the lawmaker (which really shouldn't affect how well they do their job or what laws they pass) considered more important than the actual laws? Most Western governments are run by men, and yet they are passing laws which hurt men and benefit women. It was a majority male government which refused a couple of years ago to remove the outrageous sexism involved in statutory rape, it's male governments and male judges who f*ck fathers over in divorce court, it's male governments who insist that only penetration counts as rape, and not simply sexual intercourse without consent (gender neutral), it's male dominated governments who use the sexist phrase "violence against women".

So yes, the genders of the lawmakers are primarily male, and yet those laws are still primarily benefitting women at the moment at the expense of mens' rights.

[Deleted User]

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Friend of mine went through hell after being caught with his same-age 15 year old girlfriend. She got off scott free thanks to our "only boys can be aggressors law". Not a peep out of feminists, expect to insist that none of these scenarios matter and women are the only victims of sexism.

What happened, what are the laws that say only men can be aggressive? I think you will find very few people who say only women are the victims of sexism, men are often the victims of sexism as well.

orubiru

Kev W wrote: »

Perhaps you see it that way because you don't recognise your privilege, seeing it as simply "the way things are"?
Many forms of privilege are the absence of things.

When was the last time you felt afraid to be outside alone at night, for example?

A fish doesn't know it's surrounded by water until you take it out.

Isn't the fact that we are all sitting here on the internet spending time on Boards instead of using that time to get food and water for our starving families an indication that we are all privileged?

OF COURSE privilege exists. However, these attempts at privilege classification are severely misguided and, I think, quite dishonest.

The goal seems to be shaming someone who is white or male or whatever into feeling that their opinion is somehow invalid because of some factor outwith their control.

Is it "male privilege" or "white privilege" or "hetero-normative privilege" that we were born into one of the safest and most prosperous periods in human history? A modest earner like myself lives better than the rulers of past civilizations. Clearly that is privilege. However, there are people of all races that live lives that I can only dream of. So that is also privilege.

If you are asking "what kind of privilege is it though" then my suspicion is that you are trying to make a specific group, most likely made up of many thousands of diverse individuals, look like the "privileged ones" so you can push forward some kind of narrative that makes that group look like the "Bad Guy".

When you ask "When was the last time you felt afraid to be outside alone at night, for example?" I don't really know what you are getting at?

Men are frequently assaulted when out alone. So are women. So are kids. So are all different types of people from all different backgrounds.

If we simplify it and say we have a group of 40 X People and 40 Y People. 10 of the Xs have been attacked when out alone at night. 5 of the Ys have been attacked when out alone at night.

So we have 15 people who have been attacked and 65 people who have not been attacked.

On one hand you seem to be saying that the Ys are privileged because statistically they are less likely to be attacked than the Xs. You are calling this a "Y Privilege".

You are completely ignoring the fact that the majority of the people have never been attacked. Ever. So what kind of privilege is that? Person Privilege?

I cannot possibly imagine how twisted up you must be to say that Men, some of whom may have been assaulted or raped, are privileged because it was less likely that they would have suffered that fate.

So if I get beaten up and my wallet taken (by "youths" of course) on my way home from work tonight does it mean that I have now lost my privilege?

smash

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Friend of mine went through hell after being caught with his same-age 15 year old girlfriend. She got off scott free thanks to our "only boys can be aggressors law". Not a peep out of feminists, expect to insist that none of these scenarios matter and women are the only victims of sexism.

Dont fall for the trap. She said "what laws in Ireland are anti men and have come about because of political lobbying by women". The law you mentioned is ludicrous but it didn't come about because of lobbying by women.

Iseedeadpixels

Kev W wrote: »

I could be reading too much into your post but are you actually saying that the existence of rape crisis centres disproves rape culture? Because it seems kind of the opposite, if anything.

Would you prefer we have none? The fact we have them shows we want to support rape victims and not "blame them" as some would say.

mariaalice wrote: »

Men have use rape crisis centres as well why would you think its only women.

Did I say that? I am trying to say there is no rape culture in Ireland.

the_monkey

Pay gap ?

Let's take a look at pro tennis as an example (it may be a tiny % of the pop. but it's in the public view and sends out a message)

Women used to earn less than men and the PC feminist bs started and now they earn MORE.

I say more when others will say its the same, but it's actually more as they play best of 3 sets versus best of 5.

Best of 3 at a level GULFS below men, a really good amateur male could push a top 200 woman.

They want equal pay - sure but play best of 5.

But wait suggest that and you are a misogynistic pig - sure ladies wouldn't be able for the extra stress (or is that sexist?)

smash

Rape culture....

Can someone please explain to me how the fcuk you can relate the word 'culture' to rape, and accept it as a valid phrase, using a dictionary definition? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/culture

It's utter rubbish!

GarIT

Kev W wrote: »

So fear of being attacked is paranoid? It's not like it doesn't happen.
Interesting assumption that the taxi driver is male.

Not all fears are rational. You are much more likely to be killed by any of a dog, farm animal or coconut than you are to be killed by a spider, snake or shark but people still fear the latter.

Men are more likely to be randomly attacked than women. Why is fearing going going outside something men are 'privileged' by not having to deal with?

You are more likely to be killed in a kitchen accident, falling down stairs, or by under-cooked food than going outside.

You are 200 times more likely to die in a car crash than be murdered. You are over 1000 times more likely to be killed in a car crash than you are to be murdered by a random person outside. You are much more likely to be seriously injured every time you get into a car than you are to be attacked by a randomer when you go outside.

The chances of being attacked in a taxi are so low that you are more likely to win the lotto and be struck by lightning in your lifetime. (Unless you are the driver of the taxi as they are one of the most likely groups to be attacked). If you fear the taxi driver more than they fear you than there is something wrong there.

A fear of going outside is quite a serious issue and is something a therapist would really need to hear about it, so if anyone does have a fear of going outside you should talk to your doctor because there are people that can help you overcome this.

hatrickpatrick

mariaalice wrote: »

As I always ask had anyone met an extreme feminist or even any average feminist in real life, has anyone been personally affected by a feminist agenda what laws in Ireland are anti men and have come about because of political lobbying by women.

The interned multiplies everything by a 10000.

Friend of mine went through hell after being caught with his same-age 15 year old girlfriend. She got off scott free thanks to our "only boys can be aggressors law". Not a peep out of feminists, expect to insist that none of these scenarios matter and women are the only victims of sexism.

0byme75341jo28

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Now that's very unfair considering you started the thread because you think the Western world is anti-man, and it's exactly the sort of dismissive response that some men complain about when they try to talk about issues that they are affected and influenced by.

Would you call those men paranoid and suggest they speak to a therapist?

Are you afraid of being attacked by a woman at night, and that's why you take a taxi?

If you're not prepared to take someone else's issues seriously, then you have no right to complain when other people don't take your issues seriously.

I'm trying to take the issues you raise seriously, but you're not making it easy.

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make. If a man was afraid of sitting into a taxi on their own I'd consider them paranoid, don't know what the rest of your post is suggesting, perhaps that because I don't think it's unsafe for a woman to travel alone on a taxi that I've no right to question society's attitude towards men?

[Deleted User]

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Rape crisis Centres....check
Common folk beating up a rapist.....check
Prison used mainly for sex offenders....check
A man can't legally be raped by a woman in Ireland check....

Definite rape culture right there :rolleyes:

Men have use rape crisis centres as well why would you think its only women.

Kev W

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Rape crisis Centres....check
Common folk beating up a rapist.....check
Prison used mainly for sex offenders....check
A man can't legally be raped by a woman in Ireland check....

Definite rape culture right there :rolleyes:

I could be reading too much into your post but are you actually saying that the existence of rape crisis centres disproves rape culture? Because it seems kind of the opposite, if anything.

Skylinehead

Kev W wrote: »

Why are you comparing statistics for childless women to statistics for men? I'm not disputing your numbers (though a source would be nice)

Read again, there's a little link called "Source" in Wibbs post.

RDM_83 again

Ha written a longer reply but lost it.
Anyway to those arguing that this is false can you give me a counter point?
Is there any statistical measure (so actually factual)where females under 30-35 are in a worse position males, excluding sexual harassment/assault?
Its pointless talking about men in their 40's-50's as they were not a product of the current environment.

Addition depression would be one but the vastly higher male suicide rates indicate s9mething else going on.

Iseedeadpixels

Rape crisis Centres....check
Common folk beating up a rapist.....check
Prison used mainly for sex offenders....check
A man can't legally be raped by a woman in Ireland check....

Definite rape culture right there :rolleyes:

One eyed Jack

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

No, and if you're that paranoid I'd suggest speaking to a therapist.

Are you worried the taxi driver will attack you because he's a male?

Now that's very unfair considering you started the thread because you think the Western world is anti-man, and it's exactly the sort of dismissive response that some men complain about when they try to talk about issues that they are affected and influenced by.

Would you call those men paranoid and suggest they speak to a therapist?

Are you afraid of being attacked by a woman at night, and that's why you take a taxi?

If you're not prepared to take someone else's issues seriously, then you have no right to complain when other people don't take your issues seriously.

I'm trying to take the issues you raise seriously, but you're not making it easy.

[Deleted User]

As I always ask had anyone met an extreme feminist or even any average feminist in real life, has anyone been personally affected by a feminist agenda what laws in Ireland are anti men and have come about because of political lobbying by women.

The interned multiplies everything by a 10000.

B0jangles

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Ha. What absolute nonsense. All of which you speak have their strings pulled by lobby groups, with agendas, none more powerful lobby groups than women's lobby groups who have been influencing all facets of society when it comes to legislation for well over forty years. You couldn't have a more naive opinion on how society is run if you tired.

An as shining example of how what you suggest is bollox, lets look at some recent comments by UK Justice Minister, Simon Hughes:

The western world is "run by men"? Yeah, of course it is.

Hang on, if these feminist lobby groups are so pervasive and powerful, how come there are still ZERO woman-dominated governments / judiciaries / Police Forces / Multinationals?

(I'm not saying there should be BTW, personally I'm all for balance, but if Nacho's super-powerful feminist lobby groups exist then they are remarkably inefficient)

Fake edit: Apparently there are 2 countries globally where women make up more than 50% of the government - Bolivia and Rwanda.

Kev W

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I would consider that paranoia, yes.

Taxi drivers are predominantly male, and I'm certain a male taxi driver is what kylith was alluding to. I'm sure now you're going to attempt to discredit my argument by telling me I'm being sexist by making this presumption.

I was only mildly poking fun about your assumption. I know most taxi drivers are male.
However the fact that you can feel so safe in a male stranger's car that you can dismiss any feeling of unease in that situation as paranoia is an excellent example of male privelege.

hatrickpatrick

smash wrote: »

I was with you until this:

Don't be proud of your gender, be proud of your personal achievements.

I'd normally agree with this sentiment, however, I've been thinking for a while that this is something which needs to happen, at least for the moment. I'm a man, I'm a good person, and I'm f*cking proud of it, despite what all of those propaganda posters regarding violence and crime would have you assume about my character just because I'm male.

[Deleted User]

kylith wrote: »

Ever find yourself worrying that that taxi driver is going to attack you?

One of the friends I spoke to recently told me about an incident when getting a spin home from the local GAA star (no friend of mine, father of 3, local hero), who then collected 3 other fellows, who sat in, and then proceeded to drive her to a house despite her rising protests and eventual hysterics and begging to be let out. They only relented when she started trying to ring her own brother and they realised that there would be serious consequences, but up to then they thought it was normal. The fellows who landed into the car are well known in this area for pushing the envelope and a few young girls just can't seem to remember the parties they went to.

The scary thing, she thought it was her fault for getting into a car. And obviously could not go to the Gardai, because nothing actually happened beyond her getting a lift, and feeling a rising sense of panic as the situation dawned on her.

I have never heard of any man facing anything remotely similar.

smash

RWCNT wrote: »

Since victim blaming and rape-jokes clearly exist, how can you possibly deny the existence of rape culture?

Murder jokes exist and Paedo jokes exist. Doesn't mean there's a murder culture or peado culture.

Kev W

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed it does, at 30 the average childless Irish woman is earning more than the average 30 year old Irish man. Source That's before we get to the ever widening education gap, that if it was favouring men there would be ructions over it(rightfully) The "1 in 4/3/5[insert makey uppy figure here] are raped" is nonsense, which makes "rape culture" in the West a hysterical nonsense with it.

Why are you comparing statistics for childless women to statistics for men? I'm not disputing your numbers (though a source would be nice), it just feels like an odd discrepancy. If both groups are with or without children does that effect the statistics?
As for the vague statistics on rape you dismissed, do you have a source on which to base your dismissal? I can only assume that you're claiming that whatever the actual statistics are are incorrect. What do you base that on?

RWCNT

Wibbs wrote: »

The "1 in 4/3/5[insert makey uppy figure here] are raped" is nonsense, which makes "rape culture" in the West a hysterical nonsense with it.

Since victim blaming and rape-jokes clearly exist, how can you possibly deny the existence of rape culture?

[Deleted User]

Potatoeman wrote: »

It sounds like they need better friends. That's like a man judging every woman on that one wagon they know.

Actually they didn't make any judgement, it was all very matter of fact. I was actually far more appalled than them about what they were saying - which went from just being politely asked to some very intimidating situations. They were simply saying what they go through, they did not even use words like objectification or dirty little secrets. The terms...

Deleted User wrote: »

objectification, abuse, groping, and just the general way in which they are treated like meat and how many men, even married friends of mine, have tried it on with them, assuming they hardly have the self esteem to not want to be a dirty little secret, it's depressing...

...were entirely my characterisation of what happened, not theirs. In fact what was so awful was to see how they shrugged their shoulders and kinda said this is what being a woman is like, their lot was no worse than friends of theirs.

0byme75341jo28

Kev W wrote: »

So fear of being attacked is paranoid? It's not like it doesn't happen.
Interesting assumption that the taxi driver is male.

I would consider that paranoia, yes.

Taxi drivers are predominantly male, and I'm certain a male taxi driver is what kylith was alluding to. I'm sure now you're going to attempt to discredit my argument by telling me I'm being sexist by making this presumption.

NachoBusiness

Shenshen wrote: »

Seeing as it's effectively run by men (national leaders, owners/CEO of businesses and companies, military, you name it chances are its run by a man), you'd really have to wonder at male masochism to turn it all anti-man....

Ha.

All of which you speak has their strings pulled by lobby groups, with agendas, none more powerful lobby groups than women's lobby groups who have been influencing all facets of society when it comes to legislation for well over forty years. You couldn't have a more naive opinion on how society is run if you tired.

An as shining example of how what you suggest is bollox, lets look at some recent comments by UK Justice Minister, Simon Hughes:

UK Justice Minister Simon Hughes has recommended that the number of women serving prison terms should be reduced by half as most of them have been victims themselves, the BBC reported Thursday.

"Women are a special case for very good, evidenced reasons. Firstly, many more women who go to prison have themselves been victims. They've often been abused or in violent partnerships," Hughes said on air of BBC Radio 5.

He added that it was his belief that women tend to leave behind family responsibilities, unlike men.

Hughes stressed that he was primarily referring to women sentenced for non-violent crimes.

"There are some women who do terrible things and deserve to be locked up for a very long time. My concern is for those who are not a danger to society, who have become caught by a system which then does not help them out of it," Hughes said.

The western world is "run by men"? Yeah, of course it is.

orubiru

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

I think it is clear to see for anyone who can think for themselves that the western world is currently extremely anti-man. The examples are everywhere, from gender quotas to cries of "sexual harrassment" for being stared at. Misandry is now acceptable in most areas of life, whilst any attempt to point this out is usually received with a backlash of abuse, and quite ironically, more misandry.

In my opinion the media and large portions of the Internet are doing their best to attach a shame to being male, similarly to what's happening to white people. Somehow it's my fault for being male and therefore benefitting from this imaginary "male privilege", and I should be ashamed of that. Nonsense.

I'm sick to the back teeth of attempts being made to make me feel bad about my masculinity. I'm a man, and I'm proud of that fact. I hope everyone feels the same way about themselves, even those who have changed gender.

The equality movement has gone too far.

I wouldn't say so. I think life in the western world is pretty agreeable for most people. Certainly in Ireland I don't think the real world is particularly "anti" anyone.

On The Internet it's a different story I suppose. Ridiculous articles, videos and tweets are just about everywhere. There is obviously power in internet mobs and witch hunts but the number of crazies who are willing, and able, to wield that power are rather small.

For the most part "anti men" articles and such exist as a weird form of entertainment. Seriously, take a look at the Everyday Feminism website and tell me that the writers there don't fully know that they are writing absolute nonsense that barely connects to reality. It's too not much different from some of the Creationist websites. They are all designed for like minded people to have a chuckle, nod their heads and then go about their day feeling superior. Feeling more intelligent or more civilized than "men" then maybe tweet a made up anecdote about how oppressed you were today knowing that nobody is gonna say "hang on a minute" and ask a question or two.

Spouting nonsense to each other in an echo chamber, refusing to engage in rational thought or just outright peddling lies and dishonesty. Meanwhile, everyone in the real world goes about their business.

OK, sometimes the nonsense from the internet can bleed in to real life and people (on both sides) lose their jobs or face harassment whilst others (on both sides) make a tidy profit on the back of "outrage". In general though, none of this affects people out there in the real world.

With the internet switched off I can experience no misandry at all. Nobody talks to me about my White Male Privilege (and they will get a history lesson if they do). Nobody makes me feel guilty or ashamed about the fact that I am a man.

The loving, caring, understanding and rational majority are silent while the deranged and delusional few write their blogs and spew their nonsense on the internet. It doesn't mean that men, as a general group, are widely hated or oppressed by society. Most likely a lot of these bloggers or internet posters log out and go and spend time with men that they love and care about. I can't imagine a woman who spends her time complaining on twitter about gender quotas etc would be too impressed, in the real world, if her son or husband or father missed out on a job or promotion because the company was forced to choose a woman instead.

Let's be honest here, the vast majority of women out there genuinely do want to have a good man in their lives. The majority of those women do already have a good man in their lives. They do not hate men. They do not hate masculinity. I'd actually argue that traditional ideas of masculinity are encouraged by the women in my life and I can't imagine that changing any time soon.

Wibbs

Kev W wrote: »

The gap exists.

Indeed it does, at 30 the average childless Irish woman is earning more than the average 30 year old Irish man. Source That's before we get to the ever widening education gap, that if it was favouring men there would be ructions over it(rightfully)

Any more?

The "1 in 4/3/5[insert makey uppy figure here] are raped" is nonsense, which makes "rape culture" in the West a hysterical nonsense with it.

Liam O wrote:

On the flipside there is certainly some pisstaking with regards to certain issues in the law with men. Father's rights have been discussed and this current jokeworthy thing whereby if 2 people are drinking and have sex it is the man who is seen as being in the wrong if there is regret on the female side.

Liam O That's because third wave feminism or whatever label they attach to themselves these days holds that women have no agency, no responsibility, it is always the man/men's fault, because patriarchy. Very convenient. Cake and eat it time. Men hold all responsibility and not just their own, but hers too. Very Victorian altogether. It seems much of modern feminism has had an irony bypass. And before the "oh that's just the extreme", nope this is mainstream feminism that holds these views.

Kev W

Samuel Scary Urination wrote: »

No, and if you're that paranoid I'd suggest speaking to a therapist.

Are you worried the taxi driver will attack you because he's a male?

So fear of being attacked is paranoid? It's not like it doesn't happen.
Interesting assumption that the taxi driver is male.