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Cecil The Lion RIP

Very Bored

A lot of outrage over the killing of Cecil the lion by some American dentist/hunter out in Zimbabwe.

Apparently, Cecil was something of a national icon and Zimbabwe wants to charge the dentist plus he's facing a lot of furore back home in America.

Personally, I think anyone who thinks its fun to spend thousands of dollars and travel half way around the world just to kill something has serious self-confidence issues. Does he think it makes him a big man because he killed something with a gun? That said, some of the furore is slightly too much, whilst I agree that animals do and must have rights and this incident is disgraceful, some of those attacking him are going slightly over-the-top in my opinion as it wasn't a human being he killed.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0728/717733-zimbabwe-cecil-lion/

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Streetwalker

Very Bored wrote: »

@Streetwalker Maybe if you'd bothered to read the opening post you'd have seen that I also criticised those who I felt had gone over-the-top in their reaction as it wasn't a human that had been killed.

I read the OP. I'm making a generalisation granted but it's par for the course not only in AH but in the general public also. Dog/Tiger/Dolphin gets killed=outrage, scores killed in bomb attacks in some middle eastern country=Not even worthy of a mention because the people have sandy coloured skin. For the record I think it was pretty sick what happened to the Tiger.

steddyeddy

Wibbs wrote: »

I have zero problems with touching that subject. I think in this day and age when they're about as "tribal" as I am, all Made in China runners, mobile phones and headscarves for the tourists their "tradition" and "culture" on this matter can fcuk right off. Defending your herd against predator attack? Game ball. Hunting lions so you can carry their tail around? Primitive nonsense. Don't get me started on Arabs and Chinese who require animal parts to make their dick work leading the rhino to extinction, or morons who want ivory. Primitive windowlickers the lot of them.

I agree with everything you said Wibbsy but just to point out some Masaai are primitive and keep their heritage. Not the ones in Ngoro Goro or near the Serengeti but in some of the more remote parts in Tanzania.

steddyeddy

kylith wrote: »

I don't think it was wild meat he was talking about as much as it was predator meat. Predators are, by definition, dangerous animals but apart from that they're not as good eating as herbivores are and the liver can contain toxic amounts of vitamin A.

I don't know about wild meat but eating certain animals like reptiles can be dangerous. They carry large amounts of salmonella.

ancapailldorcha

Streetwalker wrote: »

I read the OP. I'm making a generalisation granted but it's par for the course not only in AH but in the general public also. Dog/Tiger/Dolphin gets killed=outrage, scores killed in bomb attacks in some middle eastern country=Not even worthy of a mention because the people have sandy coloured skin. For the record I think it was pretty sick what happened to the Tiger.

Lion.

Regarding your comment on bomb attacks, that's something we've sadly become accustomed to in that particular region. You could have said the same thing about Northern Ireland once upon a time. There's also the motive to consider. This man killed the lion for fun/narcissism/bragging rights/whatever. It wasn't necessary for him to travel so far to do so nor had he a cause higher or otherwise.

Very Bored

Thanks Kylith. Does that apply to certain categories of predator only though such as big cats? For example, many natural predators are eaten in various places around the world, crocodile, shark and dog to name three.

Wibbs

Very Bored wrote: »

@Wibbs Slightly ot but what you said caught my interest. Why does wild meat make for a poor or even dangerous meal? In my ignorance I would have assumed meat would have been the same whether wild or farmed, after all its the same species..

What SE and K said. I was referring to land predators in particular. Vitamin A poisoning can be an issue*. The meat is usually very stringy too. Many hunting cultures have prohibitions against eating predator meat.

Streetwalker wrote:

For the record I think it was pretty sick what happened to the Tiger.

At least get the bloody species of cat right. *headdesk*

*indeed the very first example of pathology in an early human so far found was caused by that. A million plus years ago a homo erectus woman died from it.

kylith

Very Bored wrote: »

Thanks Kylith. Does that apply to certain categories of predator only though such as big cats? For example, many natural predators are eaten in various places around the world, crocodile, shark and dog to name three.

It'd depend on stuff like the species as to whether they may be dangerous to consume. I know dogs are eaten, but they are one of the species with toxic livers; an Ant/Arctic expedition was wiped out because when they ran out of food they ate the sled dogs, including the livers, and were poisoned.

Crocodile's highly overrated, imo. It's very stringy and chewy.

BattleCorp

On a positive note, life is going to be pretty difficult for the dentist from now on.

Especially with the pictures of him posing over the dead lion, and the white rhino that he killed and I think I saw another pic of him with a dead leopard.

smash

kylith wrote: »

Crocodile's highly overrated, imo. It's very stringy and chewy.

Then you cooked it wrong. It's delicious and should just melt in your mouth. 15 seconds each side on a hot pan and it's done.

ancapailldorcha

I doubt it. It'll blow over and he'll soon be back to ripping off patients.

Mr E

I was reading about this last night on joe.ie - the internet has turned on him (and rightly so), I don't think it's going to die down any time soon.

http://www.joe.ie/news/the-internet-has-destroyed-the-american-dentist-that-killed-cecil-the-lion/506028

BattleCorp

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I doubt it. It'll blow over and he'll soon be back to ripping off patients.

Can't see that happening. I reckon some crackpot animal rights activist will burn him out of it or something like that.

Mesrine65

murpho999 wrote: »

I don't get the idea of "sport" hunting.

'Sport hunting' is a misnomer.

It's just an excuse for someone with way to much money paying for a 'thrill kill' IMHO :mad:

ancapailldorcha

Mr E wrote: »

I was reading about this last night on joe.ie - the internet has turned on him (and rightly so), I don't think it's going to die down any time soon.

http://www.joe.ie/news/the-internet-has-destroyed-the-american-dentist-that-killed-cecil-the-lion/506028

BattleCorp wrote: »

Can't see that happening. I reckon some crackpot animal rights activist will burn him out of it or something like that.

At the very least, his life is about to become significantly less comfortable.

Samaris

Very Bored wrote: »

@Wibbs Slightly ot but what you said caught my interest. Why does wild meat make for a poor or even dangerous meal? In my ignorance I would have assumed meat would have been the same whether wild or farmed, after all its the same species.

There's two aspects here, wild meat/bushmeat and the animal it comes from. In terms of wild meat, I wouldn't have an issue with it for people who have grown up with it, and whose parents/ancestors have been eating it as well. For us though, we probably don't have the same defenses against common sicknesses that can be picked up from it, as we've been sanitizing our meat-eating processes to the point where we have probably lost our natural defense.

In terms of the animal it comes from, someone did touch on the vitamin deficiencies from eating the meat of carnivores, and also it tends to be just far less pleasant to eat. Stringy, tough, and generally doesn't taste very nice.

Regarding the Maasai killing lions, would you believe that I don't actually care too much about that as long as they're not killing them wholesale. The Maasai are part of the ecosystem, and they and the lions have, overall, found a balance to co-exist in. Now, at -this- stage, it may be time to stop it as the balance has been lost through lack of habitat, poaching and hunting over the last few generations.

Mind you, I also would have a certain difficulty in blaming people who live there for considering lions to be a bloody nuisance that occasionally kill people and to want to suggest to foreigners hand-wringing over it that they come and live with lions for a bit and then see if they prefer to protect their village or a great big vicious cat. All that aside though, I am a conservationist.

murpho999 wrote: »

What are you on about?

Also, can you show me one incident of an animal going around killing people just for fun?

I can give you several!

Gustave the crocodile - a 66-year old monster of a lizard, weighing about 2,000lb and over about 20ft in length (compared to 14-15 for most). Likes killing. Really likes killing. Has been seen to attack a group of humans, lay waste around him and then wander off, not bothering to eat them. The most he seems to eat is a few chunks of flesh. He's believed to have killed over 300 people, and is still active and chomping in Burundi. His last known kill was in 2008, when he grabbed a fisherman, dragged him to the water and drowned him, before abandoning the body. Just because lol, apparently.

The Tsavo man-eaters - these were a pair of maneless male lions that got a taste for flesh on the slave trails, where dying slaves were abandoned. The lions ate the bodies and found them quite tasty. They then started nomming on the workers for the Kenya-Uganda railway bridge. While exact figures are unclear, the generally accepted tally is about 135, not all of whom were eaten, suggesting that the lions were also killing for unknown reasons.

The Abadare Forest bull - a large male elephant that hated humans enough to attack villages (never the same one twice) over a period of months. Here's a quote from one of the men hunting it.
"Two natives were returning to their village one evening when they saw a great black mass standing motionless in the shadows. The men shouted to scare the thing away. At once the mass left the shadows and charged them at fearful speed ... They heard the man's screams as the elephant caught him. The great brute put one foot on his victim, and pulled him to pieces with his trunk. Then he stamped the body into the ground and went away." - J.A. Hunter

In the elephant's defence, when it was finally brought down, it was found he had a bullet wedged into the nerve centre of one of his tusks, so he had some reason for brutal vengeance on humanity.

Another elephant, nicknamed Osama Bin Laden, killed 27 people, 14 of them in a six-month period for reasons still not really understood. Obviously, he wasn't eating them either! He'd just run them down, gore or trample them to death and wander off again.

The Mysore sloth bear - in 1957, it ripped the faces off something like three dozen people in quick attacks. Some survived, but most died. Of all its kills, only three of them were even partially eaten. Most just had the faces ripped off and were then left.

There's a whole bunch of them, but I think I'll leave it at that so a) you can sleep at night and b) my post doesn't take up the entire page..

michellie

whiskeyman wrote: »

Being a dentist, he probably wanted a plaque...

I see what you did there!

murpho999

Samaris wrote: »

There's two aspects here, wild meat/bushmeat and the animal it comes from. In terms of wild meat, I wouldn't have an issue with it for people who have grown up with it, and whose parents/ancestors have been eating it as well. For us though, we probably don't have the same defenses against common sicknesses that can be picked up from it, as we've been sanitizing our meat-eating processes to the point where we have probably lost our natural defense.

In terms of the animal it comes from, someone did touch on the vitamin deficiencies from eating the meat of carnivores, and also it tends to be just far less pleasant to eat. Stringy, tough, and generally doesn't taste very nice.

Regarding the Maasai killing lions, would you believe that I don't actually care too much about that as long as they're not killing them wholesale. The Maasai are part of the ecosystem, and they and the lions have, overall, found a balance to co-exist in. Now, at -this- stage, it may be time to stop it as the balance has been lost through lack of habitat, poaching and hunting over the last few generations.

Mind you, I also would have a certain difficulty in blaming people who live there for considering lions to be a bloody nuisance that occasionally kill people and to want to suggest to foreigners hand-wringing over it that they come and live with lions for a bit and then see if they prefer to protect their village or a great big vicious cat. All that aside though, I am a conservationist.

Well nothing creditable there just because it's the internet and I'd say there are other reasons behind them such as territorial issues or feelings of being threatened etc

I can give you several!

Gustave the crocodile - a 66-year old monster of a lizard, weighing about 2,000lb and over about 20ft in length (compared to 14-15 for most). Likes killing. Really likes killing. Has been seen to attack a group of humans, lay waste around him and then wander off, not bothering to eat them. The most he seems to eat is a few chunks of flesh. He's believed to have killed over 300 people, and is still active and chomping in Burundi. His last known kill was in 2008, when he grabbed a fisherman, dragged him to the water and drowned him, before abandoning the body. Just because lol, apparently.

The Tsavo man-eaters - these were a pair of maneless male lions that got a taste for flesh on the slave trails, where dying slaves were abandoned. The lions ate the bodies and found them quite tasty. They then started nomming on the workers for the Kenya-Uganda railway bridge. While exact figures are unclear, the generally accepted tally is about 135, not all of whom were eaten, suggesting that the lions were also killing for unknown reasons.

The Abadare Forest bull - a large male elephant that hated humans enough to attack villages (never the same one twice) over a period of months. Here's a quote from one of the men hunting it.
"Two natives were returning to their village one evening when they saw a great black mass standing motionless in the shadows. The men shouted to scare the thing away. At once the mass left the shadows and charged them at fearful speed ... They heard the man's screams as the elephant caught him. The great brute put one foot on his victim, and pulled him to pieces with his trunk. Then he stamped the body into the ground and went away." - J.A. Hunter

In the elephant's defence, when it was finally brought down, it was found he had a bullet wedged into the nerve centre of one of his tusks, so he had some reason for brutal vengeance on humanity.

Another elephant, nicknamed Osama Bin Laden, killed 27 people, 14 of them in a six-month period for reasons still not really understood. Obviously, he wasn't eating them either! He'd just run them down, gore or trample them to death and wander off again.

The Mysore sloth bear - in 1957, it ripped the faces off something like three dozen people in quick attacks. Some survived, but most died. Of all its kills, only three of them were even partially eaten. Most just had the faces ripped off and were then left.

There's a whole bunch of them, but I think I'll leave it at that so a) you can sleep at night and b) my post doesn't take up the entire page..

Well nothing credible there in fairness just because it's the internet and I'd say there are other reasons behind them such as territorial issues or feelings of being threatened etc

Samaris

murpho999 wrote: »

Well nothing credible there in fairness just because it's the internet and I'd say there are other reasons behind them such as territorial issues or feelings of being threatened etc

Is it really so unbelievable that animals too can play, and animals too can go kill things for the hell of it? Also, have you never seen a cat play with a mouse?

By the way, what do you consider "credible"? What is incredible about my examples? Would you require an animal to come and specifically rip your face off, pull a lol-face and then wander off before you'd consider it a credible possibility?

Edit: Er, also, why did you add in an extra comment into the quoted piece? I didn't say that line, not least because it doesn't entirely make sense.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Streetwalker wrote: »

AH seems to care more about animals being killed than humans. That's fairly sick imo.

Loads more humans around though. Lions are nearly extinct.

Wibbs

Mr E wrote: »

I was reading about this last night on joe.ie - the internet has turned on him (and rightly so), I don't think it's going to die down any time soon.

http://www.joe.ie/news/the-internet-has-destroyed-the-american-dentist-that-killed-cecil-the-lion/506028

His Yelp reviews are region and damning. Hard to recover from that, at least in the short term. Though the interwebs has a short memory for outrage, another will be along shortly and enough no neck fat bellied small penis good oul boys will support him.

pickarooney

The_Pretender wrote: »

But had he not been killed there's every chance his some/all of his 6 cubs could have grown to maturity. Little chance of that now, as they will likely be killed by the next lion down in the hierarchy so that he can produce his own.

Lions are dicks.

Wibbs

One Yelper found this out:

"would you wanna be in this man's chair?!
"According to a corrective action agreement he reached with the board, Palmer's insurer paid $127,500 to a former employee and patient who accused him of ongoing sexual harassment. The woman claimed he made unwelcome comments about and physical contact with her breasts, buttocks and genitals."
so, not only does he kill defenseless animals in the most cowardly way possible but he also preys on his patients and employees. he is the absolute worst of the worst!"

Ouch.

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

One Yelper found this out:

"would you wanna be in this man's chair?!
"According to a corrective action agreement he reached with the board, Palmer's insurer paid $127,500 to a former employee and patient who accused him of ongoing sexual harassment. The woman claimed he made unwelcome comments about and physical contact with her breasts, buttocks and genitals."
so, not only does he kill defenseless animals in the most cowardly way possible but he also preys on his patients and employees. he is the absolute worst of the worst!"

Ouch.

This is the sort of nonsense social media could be productively used to stop instead of acting as a surrogate Thought Police. While I detest any sort of mob mentality, I've no sympathy at all for this idiot.

TallGlass

Planet Earth really is such a sick and twisted place. Needless wars, racisim and killing each other humans/animals for no actual reason then greedy rich people along with governments.

If I was on another planet looking at this ****, I wouldn't touch off it with a ten foot barge pole to be perfectly honest.

Boring username

And now PETA are calling for the dentist to be hanged. The voice of reason, as always....

http://national.suntimes.com/national-world-news/7/72/1545982/peta-cecil-the-lion-statement-hang-walter-palmer

ancapailldorcha

Boring username wrote: »

And now PETA are calling for the dentist to be hanged. The voice of reason, as always....

http://national.suntimes.com/national-world-news/7/72/1545982/peta-cecil-the-lion-statement-hang-walter-palmer

The problem with mob mentality succinctly summed up.

[Deleted User]

If I was called Cecil, I think I would welcome death

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

If I was called Cecil, I think I would welcome death

Even worse is the fact that the American would have been pronouncing it See-sil. Talk about adding insult to lingering death.

BattleCorp

Samaris wrote: »

The Maasai are part of the ecosystem, and they and the lions have, overall, found a balance to co-exist in. Now, at -this- stage, it may be time to stop it as the balance has been lost through lack of habitat, poaching and hunting over the last few generations.

Regarding the Maasai being part of the ecosystem........... I think the balance of the ecosystem has been skewed since the invention of the firearm.

The lion had a fighting chance against spears and knives, but doesn't do so well against a .308 or a .300 Win Mag.

Ave Sodalis

ancapailldorcha wrote:

The problem with mob mentality succinctly summed up.