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Child Item

Marriage redefinition and Childrens rights

indy_man

If you get to watch all this are you still 100% sure redefining marriage in our constitution is the correct thing to do? It would be best if you watched it before slamming it, if you don't watch it at all probably best not comment.

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Kiwi in IE

S.O wrote: »

Irish gay man Paddy Manning says opposing same sex marriage referendum is not homophobic.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/books/women-against-the-vote-female-anti-suffragism-in-britain/400299.article

B_Wayne

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/books/women-against-the-vote-female-anti-suffragism-in-britain/400299.article

I think we can be confident in saying that not allowing women to vote is not misogynistic. Thank Christ for Paddy putting things in perspective!

osarusan

Sonics2k wrote: »

Hi Fran,

I've never said this before, but Bannasidhe is my mother.

My name is Finn, and I have spoken out against your attitude quite a bit recently. I have spoken openly and honestly on RTE Radio against a member of the Iona Institute who backed down when she had to admit I am completely normal.
I have spoken publicly in front of TD's, the press and whole groups of strangers.
It all started on boards.ie on the AMA forum if you'd like to have a read.

In fact, I have publicly challenged people to step up to me and tell me how my life and childhood was different.
I'm 30 years old, engaged and have children, I'm extremely well educated with a passion for Space Exploration, Tech and a deep rooted love for Munster Rugby. I can build a PC, but also take a part a washing machine and fix it a fair amount of it.
These are just two of the skills my lesbian mother taught me, just as my cousins mother taught him many things too.

Please Fran, I can except that you do not like gay people and that your religious beliefs tell you this. I can accept these things, it is your right as a human being to hold your beliefs, and never let anyone tell you otherwise.

But here and now. I challenge you. I dare you. How am I different? What exactly did I lose out on?

Your post is filled with anger, disgust and nothing but pure hatred toward another human being based on nothing more than the person she loves. Tell me know of your great moral code, because I've read the Bible and know the New Testament rather well, and I'm fairly sure what you have just said is exactly what Jesus did not want.

Thank you Finn, this was a beautiful, personal, honest post that treated Fran with more courtesy than they deserve.

Hopefully, Fran will have the maturity and decency to respond.

Congratulations on all your hard work campaigning.

G_R

sup_dude wrote: »

Are you talking about others attempts to engage with you there Fran?

Mod note

fran17 has been banned, so will be unable to respond to this or any other post.

Please don't reply to this post.

Links234

fran17 wrote: »

I think you can very much understand why I will not be engaging with you again in this forum Links234.Your antics alone extinguished any hope I had that people could engage equally in this forum and also that one could expect to receive fairness when wrong was done against them.

My antics? I've done nothing but tried to have honest debate with you, something you're not too fond of it seems. But don't worry Fran, I don't expect you to engage with me at all, you'd just ignore any points I made anyway. Although it's serious irony of ironies for you to lament that people supposedly can't engage in discussion, considering you follow a pretty set pattern. You'll appear in a thread and post some ignorant, nasty or otherwise utterly wrong nonsense against LGBT folks, then when you're called on it, presented with anything to the contrary, you act aggrevied and refuse to answer any question put to you. Then you'll whine about being persecuted and/or silenced, claim some jumped-up slights and 'insults' from posters who try to engage with you in debate and discussion, and then disappear only to come back later and post the same kinda crap again, rinse and repeat.

You don't engage anyone here Fran, so don't pretend like you do. If you did, if you have any shred of interest in discourse, you'd respond to Sonics2k's post. Go on, I think we'll all be pleasantly surprised if you do, but really we just expect you to throw a strop and ignore everything that's put to you. Just like you ignored my call for you to try see LGBT people as your fellow human beings for 2 minutes.

Edit: Damn

Bridge93

It's weird how those who are most religious appear to have the least 'Christian' morals of all on this matter. The church teaches all that love thy neighbour and caring and compassion stuff yet are willing to oppress a minority group for no apparent reason other than it's supposedly 'wrong' or 'unnatural'.

Cold War Kid

They'd have considered Jesus a total "liberal, PC, bleeding heart hippy".

One eyed Jack

Bridge93 wrote: »

It's weird how those who are claim to be most religious appear to have the least 'Christian' morals of all on this matter. The church teaches all that love thy neighbour and caring and compassion stuff yet are willing to oppress a minority group for no apparent reason other than it's supposedly 'wrong' or 'unnatural'.

FYP there Bridge, and on that note, I would urge people to consider the fact that just because those people who are opposed to marriage equality have either left the discussion of their own volition, or have been made to leave the discussion because they were unwilling to engage in the first place, I would hope that the complacency rot doesn't set in among the yes campaign again.

I've seen this complacency in action with people I understood were friends of mine who spoke all the right words about being young, atheist, liberal, pro-lgbt and all the rest of it, and it was my own fault that I became complacent enough to believe that when we were having a conversation about homosexuality and so on, I happened to mention that I'd played tonsil tennis with a couple of guys when I was younger. Their reactions were fairly telling. Suddenly - it was ok for them to be pro-lgbt, but they had made complacent presumptions about me too that I was reserved and conservative and butter wouldn't melt in my mouth (in fairness I'm normally dressed like a JW with the white shirt, navy tie and black trousers

).

They couldn't hide their distaste upon suddenly being presented with this new information which they couldn't process as it didn't fit in with their preconceptions. Their immediate reaction was to recoil in horror and almost synchronously pronounce "ew!". The friendship really didn't last much longer after that unfortunately. They weren't bad people, they just hadn't given much thought to what they were saying or supporting, and they liked to assume that nobody else could be as liberal and opinionated and all the rest of it as they were.

I've seen it in this thread alone where people have even taken each other up wrong where they both support marriage equality, but due to their preconceived ideas about other people, it's caused miscommunication and people taking each other up wrong and attacking other people (not talking about me, I've thicker skin than an elephant, because I've had to grow it due to constant abuse when I didn't fit with people's preconceived ideas - they don't bloody like it!), but I've seen people who are voting yes in this referendum try to give their opinion and being taken up wrong, and then they leave the discussion.

I understand that naturally this is an issue that people are going to take personally, and they're going to jump to conclusions and make snap judgments about people, but I would urge those people that before they react, before they retaliate, give the other person a chance at least to explain themselves. Put yourself in their shoes and try and imagine how you would feel if someone were to jump down your throat when you tried to express your thoughts. I understand that of course it's difficult sometimes, but if you're looking for people to understand you, the onus is upon you to show other people understanding first. If upon further discussion it becomes clear that they are diametrically opposed to your position, then instead of abusing them, just walk away, because after that point you're just wasting your time and you're only going to upset yourself even further.

indy_man

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Instead of drive by link posting why don't you tell us in your own words?

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

shruikan2553

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

How will voting no prevent same sex couples raising children?

Zaph

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

So are you suggesting that the love of two mothers is the best of all?

Bridge93

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

And every person isn't entitled to have their relationship treated equally in the eyes of the State? Bearing in mind as has been said a million times at this stage that gay couples can already raise children and this referendum will not change this either way. And has nothing to do with this referendum.

Bannasidhe

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

What exactly does that have to do with two people of the same gender getting married?

Regardless of the outcome of the Referendum gay couples in a civil partnership will be able to adopt.
So your no vote will make absolutely ZERO difference to that.
soz.

What about lesbian couples? Double the mother love no?

Would you advocate that in no circumstances should a father ever be given sole custody of a child?

What about if the mother dies in childbirth - should the child be immediately adopted by a heterosexual couple?

Have you actually thought this soundbite through?

One eyed Jack

You started this thread with this -

indy_man wrote: »

If you get to watch all this are you still 100% sure redefining marriage in our constitution is the correct thing to do? It would be best if you watched it before slamming it, if you don't watch it at all probably best not comment.

And now, what, nearly 80 pages of discussion later when those opposed to marriage equality are fairly thin on the ground, you still come out with this -

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

Now I'm not suggesting you're simply trolling or anything, but your point has been addressed at least, at least ten times and more in your own thread already.

The Adversary

I was 18 in March but haven't registered to vote yet, Is it too late to register at this stage to be able to vote in the referendum?

efb

Niamh Horan interviews Breda O'brien in the Sindo tomorrow /grabs popcorn

osarusan

The Adversary wrote: »

I was 18 in March but haven't registered to vote yet, Is it too late to register at this stage to be able to vote in the referendum?

Not too late, you can join the supplementary register up to and including May 5th.

The Adversary

osarusan wrote: »

Not too late, you can join the supplementary register up to and including May 5th.

Nice one :cool: Many of my friends are being quite apathetic about the whole thing despite supporting marriage equality. Don't want to be one of those hypocritical young people! Can't wait to exercise my democratic right and I'm happy this is going to be the first thing i'll be able to vote on. Roll on May 22nd and Yes, Yes, Yes

WoolyJumper

terryduff12 wrote: »

if the bill gets passed! shouldn't that be the next step

It's been about 8 years since I left school...and even longer since I did SPHE in 1st/2nd year. But homosexual relationships/homosexuality were part of the curriculum (a very small part) Though my teacher spent as little time as she possible could on that section and refused to answer any questions about it (i assume by her red face she was embarrassed).

Anyway I sure they are ready discuss things like same sex relationships in school.

efb

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/article31153701.ece

Niamh not coming over all Team Breda...

Bannasidhe

The Adversary wrote: »

Nice one :cool: Many of my friends are being quite apathetic about the whole thing despite supporting marriage equality. Don't want to be one of those hypocritical young people! Can't wait to exercise my democratic right and I'm happy this is going to be the first thing i'll be able to vote on. Roll on May 22nd and Yes, Yes, Yes

Ah - the excitement of your first time.

My first time grew up to become the 8th Amendment

The Hill Billy

The Sindo wrote:

At that stage Breda wondered if it was all worth it, because, as she puts it: "It was having an impact on the people whom you love very much."

Oh, the irony...

Annasopra

The Adversary wrote: »

I was 18 in March but haven't registered to vote yet, Is it too late to register at this stage to be able to vote in the referendum?

No

Fill out an rfa2 form. Get it stamped by Gardai. Post the form to your local council.

http://www.checktheregister.ie/PublicPages/AppForms.aspx

Kiwi in IE

indy_man wrote: »

OK, I have many views lending to a no vote but the main one is that every child is entitled to a mothers love. Even better is the love of both a mother and a father.

To be honest I find this harping on about the special, separate virtues of mothers slightly patronising. Because we give birth to the child does not automatically make us better parents or make our love for our children superior to that of their father. My OH is actually the better parent in many respects in our relationship, he has more patience and more imagination when playing by a long way, he is more even tempered in the face of adversity and more pleasantly responsive to issues that occur between 1 and 7am.

I find that this argument from the no side insults both mothers and fathers. It is both reminiscent of a time when women were supposed to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and it is insulting to all the fathers who are excellent parents.

EoghanIRL

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No

Fill out an rfa2 form. Get it stamped by Gardai. Post the form to your local council.

http://www.checktheregister.ie/PublicPages/AppForms.aspx

Turns out I need to fill this out too.
First time voting and might as well seeing as if it does come down to one vote then I would like to think mine would count. Would hate for it to be a no vote and think that I did nothing!

I used to think that this referendum doesn't affect my life at all in any way but if it makes other people find happiness in life then I'm all for it!

Kiwi in IE

Further on from that, if my OH was gay and little Kiwi were the result of me acting as surrogate for him and his husband, I cannot think of any way that Little Kiwi would be disadvantaged so long as the husband provided the same level of parenting as I do. There is not one thing that I can think of that I provide my child as a mother that a man with similar emotional connections to him could not do. And as I say that, I consider myself to be a very good mother.

hotmail.com

efb wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/article31153701.ece

Niamh not coming over all Team Breda...

Breda says gays should abstain from sex like all married couples. She is off her rocker.

She also wouldn't say what percentage of the rte money she got went to charity. Probably very little.

To Need a Woman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well, if anyone is qualified for that its hardline Catholics.

This has got nothing to do with child abuse. Stop avoiding the point

osarusan

To Need a Woman wrote: »

This has got nothing to do with child abuse. Stop avoiding the point

what is the point?

To Need a Woman

bluewolf wrote: »

This isn't about children it's about people in love getting married

No! What it ultimately boils down to is children... because the homosexual couples will want to adopt. Civil partnerships give the gays all the rights they want, expect to be allowed to raise a kid in an 'experiment'