No one slags off Vladimir... Opposition Leader Shot Dead.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Syria? hmm let me see. 10 million displaced, many never to return. 1/3rd of the country run by ISIS. All the major cities in ruins including Aleppo, the industrial heartland. 220,000 dead, 80,000 missing, 500,000 injured, whole populations ethnically cleansed.

That turned out brilliant for Assad and Putin. Not one serious UNSC resolution got through condemning Assad, all vetoed by Russia. And all Assad's weapons supplied by Russia, many of them ending up in ISIS hands.

Were the people displaced and cities ruined by Russian forces?

Fact is, if it weren't for Putin's commonsense on the question the West may well have embarked on yet another heroic mission, this time against Assad, that would now see ISIS in control of Damascus surely and Beirut possibly and all the horror that would entail for anyone who didn't happen to be a heterosexual Sunni Muslim in those cities.

Oh, and access to the Mediterranean for ISIS and the headaches that would entail for the virtuous few attempting to resist their Islamofascism.

MRnotlob606

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Russia has essentially been a mafia state since the USSR collapsed, not surprised really

Who say's the government did it ?

DeadHand wrote: »

Were the people displaced and cities ruined by Russian forces?

Fact is, if it weren't for Putin's commonsense on the question the West may well have embarked on yet another heroic mission, this time against Assad, that would now see ISIS in control of Damascus surely and Beirut possibly and all the horror that would entail for anyone who didn't happen to be a heterosexual Sunni Muslim in those cities.

Oh, and access to the Mediterranean for ISIS and the headaches that would entail for the virtuous few attempting to resist their Islamofascism.

You are completely wrong. All the west wanted was Assad to transition to proper democracy and give the large number of secular politicians a chance to have a proper functioning democracy. Most of the opposition at the time were secular and progressive. The huge Syrian army could have been kept in place, and that would have been easily big enough to deal with any ISIS groups. The Syrian Army was 500,000 strong at its height with 4000 tanks and so on. Now it can't even defeat a ragtag outfit like ISIS. That and the fact thousands of foreigners joined ISIS in order to fight Assad and he did nothing to stop its growth in the early days and so on.

Assad and Putin must share the blame for the mess Syria is today. And they haven't even bothered to try to stop ISIS. Only for the Americans, Kobane and other places would have falled to ISIS.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

You are completely wrong. All the west wanted was Assad to transition to proper democracy and give the large number of secular politicians a chance to have a proper functioning democracy. Most of the opposition at the time were secular and progressive. The huge Syrian army could have been kept in place, and that would have been easily big enough to deal with any ISIS groups. The Syrian Army was 500,000 strong at its height with 4000 tanks and so on. Now it can't even defeat a ragtag outfit like ISIS. That and the fact thousands of foreigners joined ISIS in order to fight Assad and he did nothing to stop its growth in the early days and so on.

Assad and Putin must share the blame for the mess Syria is today. And they haven't even bothered to try to stop ISIS. Only for the Americans, Kobone and other places would have falled to ISIS.

Nope, what the West wanted was another crusade against an evil, secular dictator who, in fact, was keeping a lid on something so much worse.

Putin saw the opposition to Assad for what it was far earlier than most. That is, Islamofascist barbarians. Something so much more evil and expansionist than the Assad regime.

Assad is a thoroughly vile leader but realpolitik logic must prevail and an alliance must be struck with him in order to combat the greater evil. Similar to how Western democracies rightfully allied to Stalin (a "man" who would make Assad look like a kitten) to defeat the more immediate and expansionist evil that was Fascism.

DeadHand wrote: »

Nope, what the West wanted was another crusade against an evil, secular dictator who, in fact, was keeping a lid on something so much worse.

Putin saw the opposition to Assad for what it was far earlier than most. That is, Islamofascist barbarians. Something so much more evil and expansionist than the Assad regime.

Assad is a thoroughly vile leader but realpolitik logic must prevail and an alliance must be struck with him in order to combat the greater evil. Similar to how Western democracies rightfully allied to Stalin (a "man" who would make Assad look like a kitten) to defeat the more immediate and expansionist evil that was Fascism.

And you buy this nonsense?

What the west wanted was Assad to hand over power and step away. He and his father have been in power 40 years, so nothing wrong with him stepping down, and he could easily have. No major problem with Jihadists in Syria at the time.

Instead he hesitates, starts killing protesters and deliberately manufactures ISIS so he has a terrorist cause to fight against.

He's evil beyond belief and you love him. Take a bow my friend. You can twist it anyway you want, but you are a fan boy of two very nasty dictators. Must make you proud eh?

Ah the old realpolitik argument. Henry Kissinger would love you wouldn't he. Mass murdering tyrant somewhere? No problem, lets support him, hey lets even arm him with chemical weapons and the like. Yep he'd really like you.

As for Assad its been clearly demonstrated he manufactured and supported the rise of ISIS.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

And you buy this nonsense?

What the west wanted was Assad to hand over power and step away. He and his father have been in power 40 years, so nothing wrong with him stepping down, and he could easily have. No major problem with Jihadists in Syria at the time.

Instead he hesitates, starts killing protesters and deliberately manufactures ISIS so he has a terrorist cause to fight against.

He's evil beyond belief and you love him. Take a bow my friend. You can twist it anyway you want, but you are a fan boy of two very nasty dictators. Must make you proud eh?

Ah the old realpolitik argument. Henry Kissinger would love you wouldn't he. Mass murdering tyrant somewhere? No problem, lets support him, hey lets even arm him with chemical weapons and the like. Yep he'd really like you.

As for Assad its been clearly demonstrated he manufactured and supported the rise of ISIS.

It may help you to be as impersonal as you can be here.

Why would a tyrant like Assad create an existential threat to himself? The notion is as nonsensical as suggesting Stalin created Nazi Germany or Netanyahu created Hamas simply to garner sympathy for themselves.

Realpolitik works, history has serially proven it works. In fantasy, black and white crusades make the world a better place. In reality, backing the lesser of two evils makes the world a better place.

myshirt

I'm kind of worried following these stories. I like to visit certain websites, which shall remain anonymous, just browsing. However, on these particular types of websites, an advertisement nearly always pops up that says there are hot russian chicks in my area.

Does this now mean that West Limerick is fair game for Putin also?

myshirt wrote: »

Does this now mean that West Limerick is fair game for Putin also?

He's welcome to that as far as I'm concerned.

myshirt

DeadHand wrote: »

He's welcome to that as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, but not until I'm gone. I'm only here for two days!

BlaasForRafa

myshirt wrote: »

Yes, but not until I'm gone. I'm only here for two days!

You've already got the taint on you, too late to escape.

Elmer Blooker

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Who say's the government did it ?

Don't ask silly questions! Russia are the bad guys and we're the good guys, didn't you know that? Repeat "Russian aggression" over and over, say it a thousand times and you'll get the message.

Gatling

Latest reports from Russian this murder has now been classified as an "act of terror" carried our by Isis sympathisers.

Sweet phuck do they think people believe this ****,

Actually don't answer.

somebody will

I guess you can't be a strongman in Russia without killing a lot of people.

I guess its a cultural thing.

Gatling wrote: »

Latest reports from Russian this murder has now been classified as an "act of terror" carried our by Isis sympathisers.

Sweet phuck do they think people believe this ****,

Actually don't answer.

somebody will

I don't even think the Russian people are dumb enough to believe that one. I expect Egginacup to peddle that line though from here on in.

Mardy Bum

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I don't even think the Russian people are dumb enough to believe that one. I expect Egginacup to peddle that line though from here on in.

From personal experience it wouldn't surprise me if they did. Propaganda is phenomenally effective over there.

Strange how ISIS and radical Islamic sympathisers always target Russian opposition figures.

"Who will we go after?"

"I know, some Russian opposition leader who used to be a big deal but now is only a fringe character. That will show 'em."

I wouldn't worry Vlad,

John Kerry already has ironclad proof that you yourself fired the missile that brought down MH17.

Killing some sap who dissed you isn't going to cloud the waters.

G'wan the Vlad

Egginacup wrote: »

I wouldn't worry Vlad,

John Kerry already has ironclad proof that you yourself fired the missile that brought down MH17.

Killing some sap who dissed you isn't going to cloud the waters.

G'wan the Vlad

Reads like a love letter to Vlad. You forgot to put xxx at the end.

Gringo180 wrote: »

Do yous sheep really think Putin is that stupid to murder him? I'm no fan of Putin but there is no way on earth he would do this in such a chaotic time for his country.

Well actually he might, in order to blame the West who might have done it in order to blame him. Or the West might have done it in order for us to think that Putin did it. I'm guessing that the guys who killed your man did it in order for the West to think that Putin didn't do it but he's only stalling and stating that he'll hold an investigation so that we all think that he did it when in reality he might not have done it. But if he did do it then it's a strange one.

Nodin

DeadHand wrote: »

Was he right or wrong about Syria, for example?

I'm not seeing how him being right on various issues lessens him being a bollocks, tbh.

Un Croissant

Egginacup wrote: »

Well actually he might, in order to blame the West who might have done it in order to blame him. Or the West might have done it in order for us to think that Putin did it. I'm guessing that the guys who killed your man did it in order for the West to think that Putin didn't do it but he's only stalling and stating that he'll hold an investigation so that we all think that he did it when in reality he might not have done it. But if he did do it then it's a strange one.

I'm not sure if I've read this right, but did I kill the guy? Can't make it out.

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Reads like a love letter to Vlad. You forgot to put xxx at the end.

Much kisses to you Shur XXX

obplayer

Egginacup wrote: »

Well actually he might, in order to blame the West who might have done it in order to blame him. Or the West might have done it in order for us to think that Putin did it. I'm guessing that the guys who killed your man did it in order for the West to think that Putin didn't do it but he's only stalling and stating that he'll hold an investigation so that we all think that he did it when in reality he might not have done it. But if he did do it then it's a strange one.

No it isn't. It is a very clear straightforward statement that, in Russia at least, he is in charge and will do whatever he wants to anyone he wants, anytime and place he chooses. He is making it clear that he is the dominant male and no one will be allowed to argue with him. Heaven help Russia.

Egginacup wrote: »

Much kisses to you Shur XXX

Thanks egginacup!

How near the top of Vlad's hitlist am I by the way?? be honest!! I've said a few bad things about him on here.

B_Wayne wrote: »

A referendum that is viewed as illegal by the international community. Military surrounding a referendum is rarely viewed as legal.

Actually, no referenda are illegal.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's unlikely that we'll discover what truly happened here. Being cynical or not the close relationship between the Bratva and the current Kremlin administration is well known.

It would be a method of outsourcing a dirty deed that can't be linked back to a state agency if they got these people to do the hit.

obplayer wrote: »

No it isn't. It is a very clear straightforward statement that, in Russia at least, he is in charge and will do whatever he wants to anyone he wants, anytime and place he chooses. He is making it clear that he is the dominant male and no one will be allowed to argue with him. Heaven help Russia.

And what does any of this have to do with you or I?

Even if, in your fantastic imagination, Vladimir Putin killed someone, then why are you so animated about it?
He can kill who he wants in his own country. Why are you cribbing about what happens in another country? UNLESS you think you have a right to tell how others ought to be.

Is that the case?

Murder is an abomination and state sanctioned murder is beyond reproach. But if you feel the onus is upon you to criticise the machinations within another person's land then surely you would have no issue with them commenting or even interfering in your land, No?

tomwaterford

Egginacup wrote: »

And what does any of this have to do with you or I?

Even if, in your fantastic imagination, Vladimir Putin killed someone, then why are you so animated about it?
He can kill who he wants in his own country. Why are you cribbing about what happens in another country? UNLESS you think you have a right to tell how others ought to be.

Is that the case?

Murder is an abomination and state sanctioned murder is beyond reproach. But if you feel the onus is upon you to criticise the machinations within another person's land then surely you would have no issue with them commenting or even interfering in your land, No?

Because....it is not his own country....and a country without a valid/viable opposition is by the very meaning not fair / reasonable