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The Vladimir Putin appreciation thread.

Jimmy Garlic

He has to be one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known, not just a stuffed suit like his wooden American counterpart. His steadfast resolve in the face of a proxy war being waged in Ukraine has to be admired, a war that would never have happened if billions weren't poured into Ukraine to kickstart a coup.

Like him or loathe him there is no doubt that Vladimir Putin is a very shrewd operator who is consistently one step ahead of the game.

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Elmer Blooker

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I don't think many Russians would agree with you. All things considered the place is far better off now than it was 16 years ago. The IMF was kicked out. The oligarchs were put in their place. Energy was nationalised. The standard of living has improved for most people.

....... and theres no dirtier word than "nationalisation" on Wall Street!

Jimmy Garlic

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

....... and theres no dirtier word than "nationalisation" on Wall Street!

Absolutely. The usual suspects thought they had the colossal Russian energy sector in the bag, then Putin snatched it away from them. Meanwhile all of our resources have been gifted to those same vultures, and this country will get next to nothing in return. But at least we have "freedom" and "democracy".

blatantrereg

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Absolutely. The usual suspects thought they had the colossal Russian energy sector in the bag, then Putin snatched it away from them. Meanwhile all of our resources have been gifted to those same vultures, and this country will get next to nothing in return. But at least we have "freedom" and "democracy".

I bet the trains run on time too.

Move to Russia. Experience the wonderful quality of life there.

Or stay here and enjoy your ability to criticise the government as loudly as you want without fear of arrest.

Eugene Norman

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Absolutely. The usual suspects thought they had the colossal Russian energy sector in the bag, then Putin snatched it away from them. Meanwhile all of our resources have been gifted to those same vultures, and this country will get next to nothing in return. But at least we have "freedom" and "democracy".

Still a few oligarchs sucking on that tit.

Energy resources should be in part owned by the State for sure.

BoJack Horseman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Energy resources should be in part owned by the State for sure.

ESB?

DarkyHughes

I don't like the homophobic stuff but other than that he's great.

Eugene Norman

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

ESB?

I said energy resources not providers, but I think the ESB should be part owned by the State.

BoJack Horseman

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I said energy resources not providers, but I think the ESB should be part owned by the State.

Luckily for you it is!

Once SF sweep to power next year, they intend to create a minerals exploration agency.

Iwasfrozen

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I don't like the homophobic stuff but other than that he's great.

What about the whole dictator for life thing, you cool with that?

B_Wayne

nelly17 wrote: »

I would tend to agree I also think the western media like to paint a picture of an egomaniac but if you look at whether or not he has been good for Russia I think he has.

What about it you're a minority? Or they don't matter? What about the new recession they're entering? If you want to find a government that is free from criticism at home due to threats upon journalist's life, Russia is definitely the place to be!

InTheTrees

nelly17 wrote: »

I also think the western media like to paint a picture of an egomaniac

ha ha ha ha!!

He does a pretty good job of painting his own picture.

Have you see the shots of him shirtless? And in his diving gear discovering ancient artifacts, and out in his camo gear hunting bears?

You dont think for a minute that those are the products of an egomaniac huh?

Jimmy Garlic

blatantrereg wrote: »

I bet the trains run on time too.

Move to Russia. Experience the wonderful quality of life there.

Or stay here and enjoy your ability to criticise the government as loudly as you want without fear of arrest.

I have been to Russia. In my limited experience the trains in Moscow do run on time.

Are there not people in jail here in Ireland for protesting on public property?

Streetwalker

blatantrereg wrote: »

I bet the trains run on time too.

Move to Russia. Experience the wonderful quality of life there.

Or stay here and enjoy your ability to criticise the government as loudly as you want without fear of arrest.

I wonder if they lock people up for 6 years in Russia for importing the deadly substance that is garlic?

Guy:Incognito

Streetwalker wrote: »

I wonder if they lock people up for 6 years in Russia for importing the deadly substance that is garlic?

Possibly. But they don't do that here either.

Large scale tax evasion on the other hand......

BoJack Horseman

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Are there not people in jail here in Ireland for protesting on public property?

Nope.

fergus1001

blatantrereg wrote: »

I bet the trains run on time too.

Move to Russia. Experience the wonderful quality of life there.

Or stay here and enjoy your ability to criticise the government as loudly as you want without fear of arrest.

Clearly you haven't heard about the water protest people being thrown in mountjoy.

blatantrereg

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Possibly. But they don't do that here either.

Large scale tax evasion on the other hand......

Yes. Also fraud/deception: The high occurrence of ascaris in Chinese people makes me avoid consuming vegetables from there, and never knowingly consume uncooked vegetables from there. The deception undermines that sort of freedom of choice.

Also damage to indigenous business because the imported goods can undercut them too much. Garlic grows easily in Ireland so it doesn't really make sense that we import it at all; certainly not from a different continent.

That wasn't a victimless crime, and I agree with the punishment.

blatantrereg

fergus1001 wrote: »

Clearly you haven't heard about the water protest people being thrown in mountjoy.

Straightforward interpretation is that they were abusing people just doing their jobs. They were told to stop. They continued to harrass people. They went to prison. Nothing political about it; just scumbaggery. The people they are harrassing are not decision makers; just people trying to do their jobs.

I know the sort of abuse I got when I was putting tags on people's bins in 2002. The people setting up the water meters are gong to be getting much worse than that.

B_Wayne

fergus1001 wrote: »

Clearly you haven't heard about the water protest people being thrown in mountjoy.

I've happily criticised the government for years and have joined peaceful protests at time. Yet to be jailed! People who are currently in Mountjoy broke a court order. Other people can happily carry on protesting. Also the court order was over harassing people who were just doing their job.

But seriously, incredibly naive to compare Ireland and Russia....

blatantrereg

B_Wayne wrote: »

But seriously, incredibly naive to compare Ireland and Russia....

That's it exactly. Ireland's far from perfect. There's plenty of corruption. Sometimes people get into trouble for crossing members of the establishment here. Sometimes people with power or connections get away with screwing other people.

But generally people are fairly secure here, and can get on with their lives in peace most of the time. When people abuse power here they expose themselves to a risk of being caught and punished themselves.

Human society just isn't ideal in general. We're lucky to live in a country where peace, security and freedom is the norm.

nelly17

B_Wayne wrote: »

What about it you're a minority? Or they don't matter? What about the new recession they're entering? If you want to find a government that is free from criticism at home due to threats upon journalist's life, Russia is definitely the place to be!

If youre in a minority here do you matter?, take down syndrome kids not qualifying for medical cards as an example. There is a huge reliance on Oil and Gas prices but show me the perfect economy? As for journalisim, Two words Denis O'Brien. Are we really that much better off?

nelly17

Actually I take it all back Irelands Great

B_Wayne

nelly17 wrote: »

If youre in a minority here do you matter?, take down syndrome kids not qualifying for medical cards as an example. There is a huge reliance on Oil and Gas prices but show me the perfect economy? As for journalisim, Two words Denis O'Brien. Are we really that much better off?

Yep, I object to our sna cuts on a regular basis. In fact, Russia is much closer to Ireland 30 years ago when it comes to special needs supports. Institutionalisation is preferred as there's a stigma around disabled children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutionalization_of_children_with_disabilities_in_Russia#Current_Situation

However much I loath Denis O Brien and grip he has on journalism,he is not going to have a journalist killed. The situation is not remotely comparable to Russia. You're really likening one of the most dangerous places in the world for a journalist in the globe to operate to Ireland? Even with O Brien situation,we've had journalists criticise him via other publications and still live. We have a wealth of information on him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya

Russia are currently building up their arms supplies again, that's damaging to economy you know?

So yep, we're a hell of a lot better off. Our press has issues but it's still effectively free and we can freely criticise its flaws without being killed/jailed. I can campaign against all the issues that exist in the state such as the blasphemy law, abortion and a gay pride rally can occur without fear of being beaten or jailed for it. Yep, a hell of a lot better here.

Karl Stein

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

....... and theres no dirtier word than "nationalisation" on Wall Street!

Unless it nationalisation of debts that were caused by banks/speculators.

pcardin

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I don't think many Russians would agree with you. All things considered the place is far better off now than it was 16 years ago. The IMF was kicked out. The oligarchs were put in their place. Energy was nationalised. The standard of living has improved for most people.

Ah sure, you see Germans were also quite happy with Mr Adolf. Zombied by propaganda as much as Russians today. Now 70 years later they are still coursing him and still paying for what he caused. I kinda like this one-way thinking of Russians and lack of learning from someone elses mistakes. Kinda predictable. :pac::D

pcardin

B_Wayne wrote: »

.

But seriously, incredibly naive to compare Ireland and Russia....

Indeed. Ridiculous to make comparison with any country in the world Russia. Unless it's North Korea.

average hero

Putin has a number of serious flaws but I do think that the media go overboard with their reporting on him. He is always the bad guy one way or the other.

Ukraine unfortunately is a pawn in the larger scheme of things. The US has been antagonising Russia since the end of the Cold War. Firstly it was moving NATO closer to Russian borders, which apparently NATO had promised NOT to do. After that it was placing missile defence shields on Russia's doorstep. I mean seriously, this was supposed to protect US against Iran or something?

NATO fund groups in Russia and Ukraine under 'democracy' agendas and uses them to protest. The US etc congratulate these groups but clamp down harshly on 'Occupy Wall Street' or the 'Ferguson, Missouri' protests. With regards to China, carefully worded comments are released (a la the Hong Kong protests). There has been huge operations to stabilise / de-stabilise countries before. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio in full.

NATO don't like Putin's standing up to them and use every attempt to criticise him (winter olympics, etc etc). He is a strong leader for his country and is relatively well liked there, despite how much people want to say it is propoganda.

With all of this being said, Putin seems to have delusions about the Soviet Union and is corrupt in a major way. I also do not like some of his social policies and on merit, some of his decisions/actions are odd to say the least.

I don't think it is a dichotomy of NATO=good, Russia/Putin= bad. It definitely isn't Putin/Russia=good, NATO=bad either because Putin needs to shape up and get with the times. Kind of like two big guys havin' a go at each other over a woman at a bar.

JacquesDeLad

average hero wrote: »

Putin has a number of serious flaws but I do think that the media go overboard with their reporting on him. He is always the bad guy one way or the other.

Ukraine unfortunately is a pawn in the larger scheme of things. The US has been antagonising Russia since the end of the Cold War. Firstly it was moving NATO closer to Russian borders, which apparently NATO had promised NOT to do. After that it was placing missile defence shields on Russia's doorstep. I mean seriously, this was supposed to protect US against Iran or something?

NATO fund groups in Russia and Ukraine under 'democracy' agendas and uses them to protest. The US etc congratulate these groups but clamp down harshly on 'Occupy Wall Street' or the 'Ferguson, Missouri' protests. With regards to China, carefully worded comments are released (a la the Hong Kong protests). There has been huge operations to stabilise / de-stabilise countries before. Look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio in full.

NATO don't like Putin's standing up to them and use every attempt to criticise him (winter olympics, etc etc). He is a strong leader for his country and is relatively well liked there, despite how much people want to say it is propoganda.

With all of this being said, Putin seems to have delusions about the Soviet Union and is corrupt in a major way. I also do not like some of his social policies and on merit, some of his decisions/actions are odd to say the least.

I don't think it is a dichotomy of NATO=good, Russia/Putin= bad. It definitely isn't Putin/Russia=good, NATO=bad either because Putin needs to shape up and get with the times. Kind of like two big guys havin' a go at each other over a woman at a bar.

What a load of crap.

NATO wouldn't have any reason to exist if Russia wasn't going round threatening and invading it's neighbours.

I used to think the US, through NATO, was the aggressor during the Cold War and long hoped it would disband. For all it's faults the Soviet Union was guided by some nobel ideals. Putin on the other hand is just a gangster with terrifying similarities to other monstrous dictators of the last century.

I'm now very thankful NATO still exists and just hope they aren't slow in providing a deterrent on the ground to any more Russian aggression.

As for analogies it's more like a rapist being confronted before he does it to someone else.

Karl Stein

JacquesDeLad wrote: »

NATO wouldn't have any reason to exist if Russia wasn't going round threatening and invading it's neighbours.

Bollocks. NATO's raison d'etre was to counter the USSR and its communist ideology. After the fall of communism NATO should have become redundant.

I used to think the US, through NATO, was the aggressor during the Cold War and long hoped it would disband.

NATO very much was more 'assertive'. The USSR was devastated after WWII and posed little threat outside its borders other than the threat of being an ideological alternative. That west made sure that any ideological alternative was either contained (USSR), crushed (South America) or destroyed (Vietnam).

Egginacup

InTheTrees wrote: »

He's a dictator. Thats why he can be equated to the other russian dictators.

He's trampled on the russian constitution to the point where he can stay in power indefinitely, jumping between Prime Minister and President every few "elections".

The Russian Constitution?

Educate us. And while you're at it elucidate us as to what was violated?
Are you attempting to suggest that your definition of the laws of a foreign land and the "constitution" enshrined therein is somehow connected to your take on how others ought to live their lives?

Are you saying that you should have a say in Russian governance?