Papa Francis - Same Sex Marriage

kneemos wrote: »

They're allowed have an opinion whatever the motivation. Just like yourself.

You misunderstood. I never suggested they don't have the right to an opinion.

They are entitled to have a bullsh1t opinion and if they are foolish enough to say it out loud then we are entitled to highlight how ridiculous it is. I thought we established that last week in the case in France of religion vs freedom of speech remember? Funny enough Pope Francis was on the fence about freedom of speech but I support his right to his ridiculous opinion even if he doesn't.

Now would you care to address my opinion or was your intention simply to derail the discussion?

stimpson

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Having an opinion Is one thing, trying to dictate what people can and cannot do and trying to stop people from being happy is another.

Indeed. Try finding a school for your children in this country where they aren't subjected to religion.

Menas

eviltwin wrote: »

In relation to SSM it might. Plenty of Catholics will vote against it because of the church's position. Any debate on the issue has a representative from a Catholic organisation even though it's a civil issue. The church still has influence, not as much but it's still there.

And LGBT ireland is another club with rules who have a position on this and influence their members and partake in debates on the subject.
I am not defending either organisation, I just recognize their right to exist, to have their own rules and to exert influence on their members.
And I recognise, as a non member, that I wont waste my time trying to influence these clubs from the outside.

eviltwin

Trigger Happy wrote: »

And LGBT ireland is another club with rules who have a position on this and influence their members and partake in debates on the subject.
I am not defending either organisation, I just recognize their right to exist, to have their own rules and to exert influence on their members.
And I recognise, as a non member, that I wont waste my time trying to influence these clubs from the outside.

Of course lgbt groups have a position on it....it directly affects them

guy

eviltwin wrote: »

Of course lgbt groups have a position on it....it directly affects them guy

And it won't effect the catholics. Catholics who care about their religion won't be using gay marriage and catholics won't be obliged to perform the ceremony so what exactly is their gripe again?

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

At some stage we are going to have to explain to the catholics that it's only secular marriage that the gays want. Catholics have a ceremony, cast their spells and also call that marriage.

This is nothing to do with the religious ceremony. Catholics will never be obliged to perform a gay marriage in their church so what is it to them? They are afraid that society will move further away from them and they will have to either change their position or continue to be further out of touch with their flock.

Solution? Prevent society moving forward... It's the Christian thing to do

They believe marriage is a sacred thing between a man and a woman AFAIK.

Oops69

Typical Machiavellian Jesuit .

kneemos wrote: »

They believe marriage is a sacred thing between a man and a woman AFAIK.

Fine, but no need to force their beliefs on others right?

Bootros Bootros

K4t wrote: »

It might be for the new faction of After Hours posters (most of them probably call themselves atheists or other such terms), you'll see them out in force on the other thread about Francis. They think it's cool or sticking it to the man to defend the Pope's comments as just a bit of fun and admire him for seemingly not being as bad as the others and having a sense of humour or some integrity. Yes, I've seen the word integrity used. It's sickening.

Really. I personally think it odd that anybody is starting threads on the Pope opposing gay marriage. In other news David Cameron opposes Marxism.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Fine, but no need to force their beliefs on others right?

Are they?

Shrap

Bootros Bootros wrote: »

I personally think it odd that anybody is starting threads on the Pope opposing gay marriage.

Oh I don't find it odd. It's time people realised that the new cute n cuddly pope with his "homosexuals are people too" soft soaping words, is actually just as hard line about not wanting to allow them to live their lives equally as the last pope, or any other pope. Same sh1t, different pope.

kneemos wrote: »

Are they?

The Pope and the church will use emotional and religious blackmail to get people to vote the way THEY want them to vote, There will be people in this country who have no problem with SSM but will be compelled by their church and it's leader to vote against something that will not affect any of them in any way shape or form.

eviltwin

kneemos wrote: »

Are they?

How would you describe the NO campaign in relation to SSM? Have you not heard the religious representatives lately.

kneemos wrote: »

They believe marriage is a sacred thing between a man and a woman AFAIK.

Agreed. And there are 2 things called marriage.

1 There is a binding contract protected by the state

2 priest says prayers and they call it marriage.

Gay marriage will only effect 1

The catholics are pretending they have ownership of both.

Shrap

eviltwin wrote: »

How would you describe the NO campaign in relation to SSM? Have you not heard the religious representatives lately.

Yes. The trouble is that church is not a place where you can stand up and counter their views. Literature is being handed out that contains misinformation and lies about the effects SSM will have on the institution of marriage, and there is no forum to debate this literature as yet. It is basic propaganda, if you are being told what to think with no room for dissent.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The Pope and the church will use emotional and religious blackmail to get people to vote the way THEY want them to vote, There will be people in this country who have no problem with SSM but will be compelled by their church and it's leader to vote against something that will not affect any of them in any way shape or form.

Perfectly entitled to do so,as are others to do the opposite.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Agreed. And there are 2 things called marriage.

1 There is a binding contract protected by the state

2 priest says prayers and they call it marriage.

Gay marriage will only effect 1

The catholics are pretending they have ownership of both.

No,they believe it will damage something the hold sacred.

kneemos wrote: »

Perfectly entitled to do so,as are others to do the opposite.

Really? Please explain the emotional and religious blackmail that the no side would be able to use? Why is it ok for the church to tell lies on these subjects?

eviltwin

kneemos wrote: »

No,they believe it will damage something the hold sacred.

They also don't believe in divorce, contraception, ivf but they all are available.

kneemos wrote: »

No,they believe it will damage something the hold sacred.

So you agree that some Mulims should be allowed to enforce Sharia law or stoning because it's something they hold sacred?

ScumLord

The pope and higher ups in the church like to talk on behalf of their god. They keep going on about how god doesn't like gays but god keeps making gays. Surely what actually happens in what god supposedly created is a better indication of what god wants than what some old man thinks god wants.

I can understand him saying these things though and wouldn't really get upset about it. He's the spokesperson for his religion, he has to promote it's rules and ideals in the same way Enda Kenny has to promote the ideals of his party whether he truly believes them or not.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So you agree that some Mulims should be allowed to enforce Sharia law or stoning because it's something they hold sacred?

No,but they can spout their opinions.

Lyaiera

Trigger Happy wrote: »

And LGBT ireland is another club

No it's not.

K4t

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Bye bye the last shred of any credibility your argument had :rolleyes:

Religion and the Nazis are a perfect comparison. They both had good sides to them. The Nazis built motorways, but their defining characteristics, the things which they were really about, were evil.

What religion does well most social organisations do well Tennis clubs, charities, rotary clubs...etc But what really makes a religion. What is the necessary condition? Faith. And an exclusive faith that trumps other sources of truth is a very dangerous thing when it has the power it does in this country in terms of lobbying our government and swaying votes.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Really? Please explain the emotional and religious blackmail that the no side would be able to use? Why is it ok for the church to tell lies on these subjects?

If they are using emotional blackmail it's obviously not working as most people are in favour of gay marriage.